National The Sound of 5 million heads exploding - Trump: “Take the Guns First, Go Through Due Process Second”

[The Heretic]

Hopefully, Trump is just talking anti-gun nonsense to appease the media to take the heat off him for now: blowing smoke up the media's____. Maybe he has no serious intent in following through on it. I could only wish for that and hope that were the case.

That has to be at least partially it. It just goes to show how worried he is about other things, especially Mueller. The old "oh look! shiny thing over there!" trick still works even though most people have seen this before. It also partially appeases the anti-gun crowd until such time as they have cooled down for a while.

The bad thing - for Trump - is that it fires up the gun community, and some significant portion of us will never trust him again (if we ever did trust him to start with). The people who are making excuses for him now will probably forgive him, but most will not forget, and even those people will probably not trust him like they did before - they have seen what they perceive as the first chink in his armor.

From a political POV, ignoring our gun rights, it was probably a big mistake. Trump has made many mistakes but his loyal followers have mostly forgiven & forgotten his lies and blunders. This one they won't. Add to that angering farmers, failing to follow thru on helping factory workers keep their jobs, angering truckers and other groups that do a lot of business with Mexico, and now the tariffs - eventually all of this will come home to roost, and voters will turn their backs on him.

Oh sure, there will be some percentage that will brush it off, and/or won't be directly affected by what they asked him to do - but he barely won the election and if they held it today there is no way he would win. He might not even get past the primary - too many people have seen him for what he is. As more time goes on, it will only get worse. Unless something drastic happens and he pulls a rabbit out of the hat, he won't be re-elected.

But 2020 is a bit far off and a lot can happen. The elections this year? Primaries start in a few months and the general is 8 months away.

This just goes to show that he cannot think past what is happening right in the moment - something that should be obvious to anybody that has heard him talk without a prepared speech. Even when prepared and coached, he will go off message. I would not be surprised that he has dementia, but I would need to listen to him talk on issues 10 to 20 years ago and see if he follows the same pattern. He may just be one of those talkers who can't keep his story straight.

 

[The Heretic]

rope-a-dope? Breitbart story:
Hawkins: Donald Trump Could Be Pulling a Gun Control 'Rope-a-Dope'

I haven't had time to read all the nattering nabobs of negativity popping up lately.
Maybe there's more to the story.

I think they give him too much credit.

 

[41mag]

I think he believes he is right and is not afraid to speak what he thinks is the truth.

this is hardly a method I can use to assess a politician...whatever the 'intent' may be they all at least pretend to believe what they think is 'the truth'. I was a Wyden fan about 30 years ago but got over it.

Having read your post above, I understand your concerns and criticisms. Hope that is not where the POTUS really is at this point. We'll know soon enough, depending on what he actually does in the next few weeks on the issue.

 

[etrain16]

I think they give him too much credit.

Perhaps, or maybe they're on to something. I posted the same idea earlier in this thread - and I did it because Trump did it before - in the DACA meeting. Got the Dems to show they're willing to go all in for illegal immigrants by telling them he'd sign any deal they'd put in front of him - and all the conservatives called him a traitor then too. Then when they tried to bring him their 'demands' for amnesty, he shot them down.

All I'm saying is, I'm not convinced he's given in on the 2nd. That's why I'm reserving judgment until I see some actual actions.

Story came out today that he's not actually in favor of raising the age to 21, I'm still trying to confirm that, but it was reported across several sources today.

 

[Bealzybub]

Hold tight. I dont think we have anything to fear here. Just watch. I think he's just trying to sell more guns than Obummer. Not really but sit tight and watch.

 

[Goosebrown]

Hold tight. I dont think we have anything to fear here. Just watch. I think he's just trying to sell more guns than Obummer. Not really but sit tight and watch.

We don't. It's all old women panicking.

 

[wired]

Perhaps, or maybe they're on to something. I posted the same idea earlier in this thread - and I did it because Trump did it before - in the DACA meeting. Got the Dems to show they're willing to go all in for illegal immigrants by telling them he'd sign any deal they'd put in front of him - and all the conservatives called him a traitor then too. Then when they tried to bring him their 'demands' for amnesty, he shot them down.

All I'm saying is, I'm not convinced he's given in on the 2nd. That's why I'm reserving judgment until I see some actual actions.

Story came out today that he's not actually in favor of raising the age to 21, I'm still trying to confirm that, but it was reported across several sources today.

I dont think that was his strategy at the dACA meeting at all. I think he just said what he really wanted to do and then got B1tch slapped by actual Republicans behind the scenes and got reminded who butters his bread. The guy is a closet liberal.

 

[etrain16]

I dont think that was his strategy at the dACA meeting at all. I think he just said what he really wanted to do and then got B1tch slapped by actual Republicans behind the scenes and got reminded who butters his bread. The guy is a closet liberal.

Or maybe he's not. All either of us can do is speculate at this point - neither have proof beyond our own opinions.

 

[wired]

Or maybe he's not. All either of us can do is speculate at this point - neither have proof beyond our own opinions.

I think if you stop looking for hidden meaning or slyness in his words and just listen to what he says and take it at face value you'll get closer to the truth. Its got to be terribly frustrating for him. Oh my God, I just empathized with Donald Trump.

 

[etrain16]

I think if you stop looking for hidden meaning or slyness in his words and just listen to what he says and take it at face value you'll get closer to the truth. Its got to be terribly frustrating for him. Oh my God, I just empathized with Donald Trump.

I'm not looking for any hidden meaning. I'm just not going to assume I know exactly what he's thinking or doing - enough people on this site seem to think they have insight into his plan and know exactly what's going to happen - and I've watched that fail before. I don't care for Trump, but I'm hoping for the best - he's what we have right now because the Republican party blew their chance to get this after years of bonehead moves and weak RINO candidates. So, thanks to them, we're stuck. Like I said, I don't know his plans, but I know one thing, he's not stupid and he can be a gutsy, if not unorthodox, negotiator.

If I had my way right now, we'd have Cruz, but he has so many enemies in Washington D.C., he never stood a real chance.

 

[41mag]

, I don't know his plans, but I know one thing, he's not stupid and he can be a gutsy, if not unorthodox, negotiator.

I'm far more soothed by what I've seen him do than what I thought I heard him say.
And I'm convinced he's more than one step of any of the things I know I've heard others predict he was going to do, cause he did something else instead. He's getting better at prepared remarks when he can stick to them.

 

[The Heretic]

Perhaps, or maybe they're on to something. I posted the same idea earlier in this thread - and I did it because Trump did it before - in the DACA meeting. Got the Dems to show they're willing to go all in for illegal immigrants by telling them he'd sign any deal they'd put in front of him - and all the conservatives called him a traitor then too. Then when they tried to bring him their 'demands' for amnesty, he shot them down.

All I'm saying is, I'm not convinced he's given in on the 2nd. That's why I'm reserving judgment until I see some actual actions.

Story came out today that he's not actually in favor of raising the age to 21, I'm still trying to confirm that, but it was reported across several sources today.

I don't think he cares one way or the other on any issues except for what effect it may have on him personally. He just likes to hear himself talk, and he will say whatever he thinks the audience wants to hear. He likes the hear the approval, he likes the attention, and if it diverts attention from issues that cause him disapproval, all the better.

He is a confidence man and pathological liar - this is what they do. They have no morals or ethics. They have no principles. Trump really does not have goals except to enrich himself, be in a position of power and to seek worship from his fans.

THAT is why he is all over the place on any issue. If he has a bunch of people in the room and he thinks he can get something from them, he will tell them what they want to hear. The next day or week, later he will say something else and deny he ever told that group anything. He will say you are his greatest friend and a good worker when you seem loyal one minute and call you an idiot the next when you say or do something he doesn't want you to say or do the next.

Do not be one of the people that is fooled by his lies.

 

[Goosebrown]

And he's still better than any democrat.

Nothing you point out is a reason not to support him.

 

[The Heretic]

And he's still better than any democrat.

Nothing you point out is a reason not to support him.

Who says he isn't a democrat?

He isn't anything. He is a chameleon. This is what confidence men are - what you want them to be. You don't know what they really are. The don't say or do things because they believe in them, they do it to take away from you and give to themselves.

 

[joken]

If a person has proven to be a threat to others and has firearms, what is the proper process to prevent him from harming someone? I see a lot of complaining here and I agree with most of it, but since I'm not a lawyer, what's the fix? Arrest the person or maybe lock them up for a mental evaluation? Taking someones' guns because they might do something is unconstitutional IMO and they can always get another gun. It's all madness.

 

[The Heretic]

If a person has proven to be a threat to others and has firearms, what is the proper process to prevent him from harming someone? I see a lot of complaining here and I agree with most of it, but since I'm not a lawyer, what's the fix? Arrest the person or maybe lock them up for a mental evaluation? Taking someones' guns because they might do something is unconstitutional IMO and they can always get another gun. It's all madness.

It is a hard thing to do and a huge grey area with a lot of complications from many perspectives, especially rights.

The scary thing I worry about is someone who has a grudge against you lying about what you said, and maybe even being able to find someone willing to lie for them to bear witness.

I am glad I no longer have any contact with my ex-wife, as at one time she was the kind of person who might do something like that if you didn't give her the money she wanted.

OTOH - there are some crazy stalker boyfriends out there that women are justified to be afraid of.

 

[Boboclown]

If a person has proven to be a threat to others and has firearms, what is the proper process to prevent him from harming someone? I see a lot of complaining here and I agree with most of it, but since I'm not a lawyer, what's the fix? Arrest the person or maybe lock them up for a mental evaluation? Taking someones' guns because they might do something is unconstitutional IMO and they can always get another gun. It's all madness.

On paper, if a person is dangerous enough they would go to court to be considered dangerous and court ordered to a mental institution.

In practice? Nothing in the law works in practice like it should on paper.

 

[Certaindeaf]

The court of public opinion doesn't cotton to no fancy "due process". booya

 

[41mag]

interesting assertions yet I don't share the skepticism;
the definition of 'pathological lying' demands definition to clarify just which aspect of a nearly universal behavior become pathological;

of the many google-fu terms, to start with :
path·o·log·i·cal
ˌpaTHəˈläjək(ə)l/
adjective
adjective: pathological; adjective: pathologic
relating to pathology.
"the interpretation of pathological studies"

• involving, caused by, or of the nature of a physical or mental disease.
  "pathological changes associated with senile dementia"
  synonyms: morbid, diseased
  "a pathological condition"
• informal
  compulsive; obsessive.
  "a pathological gambler"
  synonyms: compulsive, obsessive, inveterate, habitual, persistent, chronic, hardened, confirmed
  "a pathological liar"

such assertion POTUS doesn't seem to really fit IMHO;

Given he has wide swings of what we think we hear, especially as parsed by brief sound bites offered by a hostile media. Commonly I've discovered links to a fuller recording of some of these comments to lead to a totally opposite interpretation.

This discussion is intended as examining 'on what' our own opinions are based.

I've seen other moguls/madmen of business make seemingly sketchy decisions that work out very well in spite of the flurry of opposition.

Not that I have diplomatic credentials and vast international experience, yet observation at least raises the question of the notable change between the 'lead from behind' vs 'USA-benefit' motivation. I'm for that subtle shift.

If we're not for ourselves, who will be?
If we're only for ourselves, what are we?
If not now, when?

The toxic effect of being surrounded by career bureaucrats will make any strong personality seem odd. That we've allowed our POTUS and career supplicants to the real 'feed me first/most' beneficiary class (Congress) demonstrates how little tolerance we have to those 'in the nest' but not 'of the nest'.

So whether I am comfortable with what current POTUS says is far less concern than what he actually does. I believe his various positions are part of the game he is playing. Until I see more evidence to the contrary, MAGA demands different dance steps than 'hope & change' etc.

 

[wired]

Wow back on topic and away from the pretender in chief...

What are the options? Gun control...

1. Raising the age to by all firearms to 21.

Its an infringement on the 2nd amendment. To RTKBA advocates any infringement is too much. When I was 17 I couldnt wait to turn 18 so I could buy a Ruger mini 14 for $300 so I could shoot buzzards off the top of telephone poles 100 yards away. My old 22 Marlin didnt have the oomph. My friends all had rifles , we shot them all the time. Only people my age I knew that carried pistols or even had them in their home were drug dealers . Occasionally you'd hear about some guy shooting someone else over a bad drug deal or he'd shoot someone trying to steal drugs from his house or he'd shoot his girlfriend but it wasnt often. Come to think of it it was pretty often. Occasionally I'd be at a party and some drunk idiot would start waving a shotgun or rifle around they had found in a closet. Generally a couple of guys would tackle him before he got a shot off but a couple of times Ive seen rounds go through walls and ceilings. Never heard of anyone going on shooting sprees back then but we didnt have video games ( other than pac man and asteroids ) pumping the kids we used to beat up a lot full of kill, kill, kill.

No, I dont think modern kids for the most part have the maturity to own firearms. Some do but or society keeps them as children for WAY too long. Great grandpappy was working in the coal mines at 10 and serving in the Great War at 16 and bashing skulls in Ireland at 19 and that was normal back then. I hear the argument that they can serve in the military at 18 but thats a rigidly controlled environment so I'm not sure it applies. No, I dont think its a real issue postponing the age to buy a firearm until 21. Its not the kids fault. Its our fault but its still our society as we have built it so maybe its not a terrible plan.

2. Gun confiscation.
Yeah, good luck with that. 400+ MM guns in the country. They arent getting turned in.

3. Inclusion of Semi Auto firearms into the NFA.

I occasionally hear a murmur about this but it seems like most politicians have never heard about the NFA. It works to keep out the riff raff. It's slow and it is most definitely a registry. Those of us accustomed to it aren't afraid of it and a massive NFA expansion might drop processing times if they hired a few thousand extra examiners, dropped the stamp cost to $50 and called it good. Maybe even do a license of sorts where you only had to get the card renewed every few years and then didnt have to file paperwork with each individual gun. I think some states do something similar.
Yes, its a registry. Yes, its sort of an infringement. It would keep out the timid but people do use firearms for protection and they need them last minute etc. Not sure its the best idea for a lot of reasons.

4. Another "assault weapons" ban.
I dont think anyone was inconvenienced all that much by the last ban not being able to bayonet a would be intruder. The biggest PITA was not being able to find Good glock mags. It was ineffective at best. They won't make the feature mistake a again. It will be a semi auto ban combined with registration and possibly even a resale ban.

5. The mental health thing...

Massive and hugely expensive can of worms no one really wants to deal with. Lock everyone up who is actually crazy ? take firearms rights away from anyone going through a tough spell in their lives and is taking SSRI's or anti depressants? Sounds way too Soviet to me.

I don't like any of them and will comply with none. Maybe the NFA style but like I said its a system Ive een dealing with for 25 years and it doesnt bother me. It will most people though and I wouldnt expect the compliance rate will be very high. We have other problems in this society other than guns that arent being dealt with for a number of reasons and none of the above will stop those.

I keep buying 80% receivers, mags, parts and reloading supplies.