National Trump Retreats on Guns

[3MTA3]

Oh my................. I just heard Trump on the 11am news today agreeing that our background check system has loopholes. And that it was one thing that he discussed with Wayne, and Wayne wants them closed just like he (Trump) does. Oh crap!!!

The biggest "loophole" with the background check is that the firearm SN is listed on the form. If we have to have checks, then the person and the firearms should be separate and not associated in any way. I'm good with the SN check to alert for stolen firearms. Personally background checks do zip to make us safer since criminals will still get their guns illegally.

 

[bbbass]

Back on topic....

The 3pm news on the radio today said that AG Barr announced today that the Trump admin will propose new gun control laws to Congress in September of this year.

 

[Andy54Hawken]

lets keep to the topic of
Trump retreats on guns...

Yes I know that , that topic in and of itself can be political...so lets keep the political comments to President Trump and his stance on firearms etc...

This can be done without bickering , or back and forth comments , "needling" of other forum members , even if meant good naturedly ....
Thank you
Andy

 

[DB is Here]

64 dimension chess?

 

[leadcounsel]

Back on topic....

The 3pm news on the radio today said that AG Barr announced today that the Trump admin will propose new gun control laws to Congress in September of this year.

IF he does I'll be extremely disappointed if it's anything smelling like or looking like any type of infringement.

He promised repeatedly no new gun control in no vague terms. For me he got a pass on the bump stocks but if he does something more I'll feel extremely betrayed.

 

[Slobray]

IF he does I'll be extremely disappointed if it's anything smelling like or looking like any type of infringement.

He promised repeatedly no new gun control in no vague terms. For me he got a pass on the bump stocks but if he does something more I'll feel extremely betrayed.

I'm sorry, but the bump stock ban is still gun control..............

He hasn't retreated, he will get on his knees and tongue the dems chocolate starfish at the first opportunity. I believe that he's betting that he can get away with even more gun control and still win, as he's the only Republican on the ticket. He's even tipped his hand..............

'You have no choice but to vote for me,' Trump tells N.H. rally

During a campaign stop in the competitive state, the president ties his success to an economy that's now wobbling.

www.politico.com

Ray

 

[leadcounsel]

I'm sorry, but the bump stock ban is still gun control..............

He hasn't retreated, he will get on his knees and tongue the dems chocolate starfish at the first opportunity. I believe that he's betting that he can get away with even more gun control and still win, as he's the only Republican on the ticket. He's even tipped his hand..............

'You have no choice but to vote for me,' Trump tells N.H. rally

During a campaign stop in the competitive state, the president ties his success to an economy that's now wobbling.

www.politico.com

Ray

In a technical sense, yes. Because of the strict control over fully automatic weapons and gun control. Laws should be consistent.

If you've come to accept that as the norm, as I have accepted it, and recognize that there's little you can do with a "fully auto" that can't be done better with a semi-auto then it's "eh." Semi-auto allows for better accuracy, less wasted ammo, less barrel wear (due to overheating on fully auto). You can still suppress with semi-auto. You can still shoot really really fast with semi-auto with training.

So, I view bump stocks as a clever person invented something to harness inertia that got past the ATF circa 2009, when if you are being intellectually honest it maybe shouldn't have in order to be consistent with the reasons to regulate fully auto. This "reversal" means that something that probably should have been regulated briefly wasn't and now it is because, predictably, someone committed the worst mass shooting in modern America. IOW, would I want a bump stock in my inventory for self defense? Nope. Would I want one for a militia? Nope. In 10 years I never bought or used one. They were a novelty, and sadly used in a mass murder.

The 2A *should* cover fully auto weapons. The fact there are laws regulating them is not Trump's fault.

I'm 100% pro 2A and pro gun and would love to see total deregulation. But it's unrealistic, and frankly I'm pretty happy with being able to own nearly anything I want and the guns you can own are extremely effective at what they are designed to do.

 

[Knebel]

My first thought when i knew "nothing" about guns and first came to the states was "huh? why is this only semi automatic? shouldn't an m16 or ak or ar style rifle have full auto???? I thought guns were legal and a right here in the US" ...until i was told that full auto was regulated and made of unobtainium for the average joe. Kind of crushed my view on freedom a little bit and ever since felt like that wasn't right. I had really hoped to own a tommy gun or a BAR or something

 

[Mathias]

This battle may be about to be won, but not the war by the left...

After Lobbying by Gun Rights Advocates, Trump Sounds a Familiar Retreat

Lets bubbleguming hope so.....this is getting serious and I dont believe gun owners think it is.....neither did the jews until they were loaded in cattle cars.

 

[BPOR11]

I don't think it's as much a mental health issue as it's a societal issue. There are the young shooters recently who are raised by the internet,television, and film. Are they the outgoing young teens involved in social activities at school? Nope, they are the disaffected, loners who are shut out by their contemporaries, bullied and marginalized. I'm sure if you ask around there is at least one teacher or administrator who "saw it coming" .

They look around at the world through the medias eyes, and see one big violent act as the ultimate facebook or twitter post.
Who is to blame?
The media? Who's mantra is " if it bleeds it leads"! After all these things seem to happen in timeline clusters. Anecdotal evidence is coverage of one event leads to the next.
The classmates? After all when you are one of todays teens cruelty is fun, a way to assert dominance over the weak.
Or maybe the red faced overweight single mother who never had time for the kid who reminds her of the guy she dumped years ago. Of course she will go on to become another screaming anti gunner.

Maybe all of them?

Of course none of the current proposed legislation addresses any of this.

But here I go again preaching to the choir.

Preach it, Brother!

 

[Talos32]

In a technical sense, yes. Because of the strict control over fully automatic weapons and gun control. Laws should be consistent.

If you've come to accept that as the norm, as I have accepted it, and recognize that there's little you can do with a "fully auto" that can't be done better with a semi-auto then it's "eh." Semi-auto allows for better accuracy, less wasted ammo, less barrel wear (due to overheating on fully auto). You can still suppress with semi-auto. You can still shoot really really fast with semi-auto with training.

So, I view bump stocks as a clever person invented something to harness inertia that got past the ATF circa 2009, when if you are being intellectually honest it maybe shouldn't have in order to be consistent with the reasons to regulate fully auto. This "reversal" means that something that probably should have been regulated briefly wasn't and now it is because, predictably, someone committed the worst mass shooting in modern America. IOW, would I want a bump stock in my inventory for self defense? Nope. Would I want one for a militia? Nope. In 10 years I never bought or used one. They were a novelty, and sadly used in a mass murder.

The 2A *should* cover fully auto weapons. The fact there are laws regulating them is not Trump's fault.

I'm 100% pro 2A and pro gun and would love to see total deregulation. But it's unrealistic, and frankly I'm pretty happy with being able to own nearly anything I want and the guns you can own are extremely effective at what they are designed to do.

Anyone who says that bump stocks aren't a mechanically inefficient device designed solely to get around the NFA is lying to you or themselves.

That being said, we are (supposed to be) a nation of laws. The NFA is clear in that it defines an automatic weapon as one that allows multiple bullets to be fired with one actuation of the trigger. It's about as unambiguous a definition as you can get. As a bumpstock simply allows the trigger to be actuated faster than you could conciously do it, it does not meet this definition. In effect, you have a legal non-NFA machine gun, as is duplicates the practical effect of automatic fire (albeit not quite as good as the real thing) while not meeting the legal definition of one.

Put aside feelings on Trump or guns, the ramifications of the court allowing an executive branch agency to "interpret" a law counter to the obvious plain meaning of the statute has reverberations far beyond bump stocks or firearms. It makes a mockery of the separation of powers, as the executive branch can now say legislation means whatever it wants. This should concern everyone.

The fact that this hasn't drawn more attention from both sides perplexes me.

 

[Talos32]

Ugh... we don't want that. 50 sovereign states and that would make some sort of registry for license owners.

More like we need no license needed but that hits the sovereign states issue again...

But states aren't sovereign in any meaningful way (not since Reconstruction and the 14th Amendment), and that's a good thing.

The 14th Amendment's equal protection clause demands that whatever political flavor a state is, there is a certain baseline of rights and privileges that all US citizens enjoy, and each state must respect.

It's our best hope for rolling back oppressive gun laws in states like CA, as they have to meet whatever baseline the federal government sets (hence the hubub about NY State Rifle and Pistol Association v. NY).

 

[NW Backpacker]

I noticed in the OP article it was the NRA that got Trump to supposedly change his mind, and it was Trump that Schumer was belly-aching about. Not SAF, not GOA, not the Liberal Gun Club - it was the NRA. As effed up as they are, we still need to support the NRA, as well as SAF, OFF, GOA, etc. They are fighting for us, despite their problems. It's a tough fight as Washingtonians know since the people VOTED FOR draconian gun control in WA.

The comments about more gun control possibly coming in the fall are troubling. Keep up a constant barrage of letters and calls to the Senate and to Trump opposing gun control. Remind them that criminals do not follow gun laws. Send them the cake cartoon on gun control:

Gun control explained with a cake analogy (Yes, CAKE) - AR15.COM

Firearm Discussion and Resources from AR-15, AK-47, Handguns and more! Buy, Sell, and Trade your Firearms and Gear.

www.ar15.com

 

[Talos32]

I noticed in the OP article it was the NRA that got Trump to supposedly change his mind, and it was Trump that Schumer was belly-aching about. Not SAF, not GOA, not the Liberal Gun Club - it was the NRA. As effed up as they are, we still need to support the NRA, as well as SAF, OFF, GOA, etc. They are fighting for us, despite their problems. It's a tough fight as Washingtonians know since the people VOTED FOR draconian gun control in WA.

The comments about more gun control possibly coming in the fall are troubling. Keep up a constant barrage of letters and calls to the Senate and to Trump opposing gun control. Remind them that criminals do not follow gun laws. Send them the cake cartoon on gun control:

Gun control explained with a cake analogy (Yes, CAKE) - AR15.COM

Firearm Discussion and Resources from AR-15, AK-47, Handguns and more! Buy, Sell, and Trade your Firearms and Gear.

www.ar15.com

I heard Wayne LaPierre spoke with Trump personally. I can't say that anyone with his title wouldn't have had the same influence, but assuming Trump does drop this, it means he may have some use as NRA head after all. He still needs to go though.

 

[Kruel J]

The NRA nor Trump care about our rights. It's all politics and money changing hands. As long as Wayne gets his new mansion paid for by all of us sheep believing the NRA actually cares about the 2A. I get a call every day from the NRA asking for an "emergency donation". For what? Wayne's closing costs?

 

[csa_ap_hill]

MEH! and only for now, once reelected the first mass-shooting happens and he will.

 

[csa_ap_hill]

The NRA nor Trump care about our rights. It's all politics and money changing hands. As long as Wayne gets his new mansion paid for by all of us sheep believing the NRA actually cares about the 2A. I get a call every day from the NRA asking for an "emergency donation". For what? Wayne's closing costs?

YEah the NRA compromises for the system. What they said from what I read, they only want to make sure due Process is done in these red flag laws.
They helped write the NFA act of 1934 more likely supported the gun control act of 1938 when it first became illegal for a felon to own firearms. Not sure what they did on the gun control act of 1968 when I believe forms 4473 came in. They backed background checks under Clinton and didn't make much of a stink over banning bump stocks, so yeah they aren't that big on our rights.
Just before the Randy Weaver standoff, they were Jackbooted thugs, but once their status members were all offended they backed off and became LEO's best friend.
You want a good non-compromise group, join Gun Owners of America. OR OFF which I have belonged to GOA a couple of times and have donated to. OFF I get emails from several times a year and if there's a take action link, I do.

 

[csa_ap_hill]

Problem is the Status crowd and newcomers all think that a little gun control is ok. More old-timers on the right now support background checks. I remember not long after Newtown, some old foggy on the local news in Tri-Cities or Yakima and supposedly a Vet went to one of those buy back crap programs and turned in his modern sporting firearm or the so-called assault weapons he had. In my humble opinion compromise makes us slaves as William Wallace said in Braveheart.

 

[BPOR11]

It's not a "mental health" issue. It's other things. Most folks with so-called "mental problems" are usually only harmful to themselves. One way to combat these so-called "mass shootings" is by arming more people. Put an end to these illogical "Gun Free Zones".... As if a sign ever stopped anyone. Gun Free Zones create shooting galleries, like shooting fish in a barrel. SHOOT BACK!!! Rules and signs just make it harder to keep the good guys armed and make it easier for "mass shootings" to happen. Look at other countries, instead of shootings they have mass stabbings and bombings. Most people would prefer to be shot than blown up or stabbed. Yet they still somehow believe guns are the problem.

Yeah, what he said.