The Family Legacy Gun

[kmk1012]

My grandpa, me, and my oldest son (4 generations!) were in my boat that got hit by some nasty wake and went under. By the time I came up no one was around to spot, until I spotted my grandpa struggling to stay up-he had actually dove down to rescue my son who's life jacket got snagged on the boat seat. He's my hero and later that day , after we were at home handed me a never fired 60's era Winchester 94 30-30! Still had the box and tag hanging. His wish was that after my son came of age (the first male grandchild to carry the name) would get the rifle. His only condition was that I take my first deer with it. Still haven't got my deer but haven't been for lack of trying!

 

[Heywood]

As to the AR15 being a legacy gun. My number two son hit his first 1000 yard target 9"x 14" when he was 15 with the one I built.
I think he'll be proud to own it and prouder still to teach his children the joys of long range shooting with it.
It will also be used to teach #3 and #4 son to shoot long range as well.
That is what legacy is about.

 

[Mygrainman]

View attachment 410434 As to the AR15 being a legacy gun. My number two son hit his first 1000 yard target 9"x 14" when he was 15 with the one I built.
I think he'll be proud to own it and prouder still to teach his children the joys of long range shooting with it.
It will also be used to teach #3 and #4 son to shoot long range as well.
That is what legacy is about.

My feelings exactly.. and that is a beautiful rifle.. you mind sharing specs? particularly the barrel?

 

[Mygrainman]

My grandpa, me, and my oldest son (4 generations!) were in my boat that got hit by some nasty wake and went under. By the time I came up no one was around to spot, until I spotted my grandpa struggling to stay up-he had actually dove down to rescue my son who's life jacket got snagged on the boat seat. He's my hero and later that day , after we were at home handed me a never fired 60's era Winchester 94 30-30! Still had the box and tag hanging. His wish was that after my son came of age (the first male grandchild to carry the name) would get the rifle. His only condition was that I take my first deer with it. Still haven't got my deer but haven't been for lack of trying!

Ironic.. the most common potential excuse for not having any guns when the gun grabbers come knocking is "i lost them in a boating accident". you actually gained one in a round about sort of way... albeit a traumatic experience. I can relate...
I'll share the scariest few seconds of my life.. and one of the reasons I may be an over protective father... especially when it comes to the water. My best friend actually did loose a son, drowned in a koi pond when he was just a toddler, and a few years earlier I almost lost my son up at Riffe lake when he was 4-5 years old... some kid a few years older, and a head taller than him pulled him out into deep water... he's 18 now and the sight of him struggling just under the surface haunts me to this day. I was maybe 50 feet away, half the distance through knee deep water.. I never ran so fast in my life! several people all saw it at once and converged on him..A teenager, there with friends of mine, got jumped in, fully clothed shoes and all, and pulled him out just seconds before I got there and handed him directly over to me, my wife screaming with terror and running a few yards behind me... and while very shaken up... Thank God he was OK. I've never had so much anger twards a child before as I did that kid that tried to kill my son. I lit into the kids father that was watching the whole thing from the beach. barely after noon and he was already three sheets to the wind.... he tried to pass it off as " Oh, he just wanted someone to swim with him"... we left immediately after, but everybody there was appalled and from what I heard more than a few gave him some choice words about his parenting and eventually ran them off the beach. His kid had obvious sociopathic tendencies that he was ignoring, and letting him "play" with other kids without even attempting to correct horrible behavior! This kid tried to get him out to the deeper water a few minutes earlier and we stopped him right away and told him he couldn't swim.. he said "OK", but it was almost like he was waiting for us to all look away to try again. He was old enough to know better and knew exactly what he was doing. He had a hollow look in his eyes. Scary to think he is in his early 20's now.

 

[Heywood]

My feelings exactly.. and that is a beautiful rifle.. you mind sharing specs? particularly the barrel?

Thanks for the compliment.
I'll spare you all the ancillary parts.
It has an Alexander arms billet side charging upper with an ambidextrous billet lower. Young manufacturing bolt carrier group.
The barrel is a lilja ar740 chambered in 6.5 Grendel, One of the original barrels that we got him to make in the Grendel.
It is a tax driver. I shoot long range with a few friends that try to shoot their 308 AR10s as well. It only weighs 10 lbs with bipod, scope, sling and suppressor.
Their AR10s weigh at least half again as much. My AR10 is for sale....

 

[Mygrainman]

Thanks for the compliment.
I'll spare you all the ancillary parts.
It has an Alexander arms billet side charging upper with an ambidextrous billet lower. Young manufacturing bolt carrier group.
The barrel is a lilja ar740 chambered in 6.5 Grendel, One of the original barrels that we got him to make in the Grendel.
It is a tax driver. I shoot long range with a few friends that try to shoot their 308 AR10s as well. It only weighs 10 lbs with bipod, scope, sling and suppressor.
Their AR10s weigh at least half again as much. My AR10 is for sale....

Nice. i've been kicking around the idea of putting together a "hunting" caliber upper... grendel is top of the list.

 

[MountainBear]

So here's one for you. Growing up, my Dad and Uncle went hunting every fall. They both carried Ruger M77 rifles with iron sights, blued steel, walnut stocks, and rock hard red recoil pads.
My Father's rifle is in 7mm RemMag, my Uncle's in .30-06.

Now, I know my Dad's rifle will be mine someday. I had always hoped to inherit my Uncle's as well. Recently, his son moved to Alaska and started taking an interest in hunting, so he laid rightful claim to his Dad's rifle. This left a hole in my heart and safe.

So I went out and bought one just like Uncle's (with the exception of the tasco scope). It is a legacy gun because I couldn't own the exact rifle, I had to have the next best thing...

 

[DunRanull]

Family legacy: A Spreewerk 1943 K98k Mauser 7.92 with original sling, "Prince Albert" style cleaning kit (with some original cleaning patch material and original grease)! and bayonet. It is completely matching, with the metal bits forged, not stamped. A bringback from ww2, my Dad was an MP.
My addition to the Legacy is a 4" Colt Python I bought in the mid-70's. Have the box and original (non-ergonomic) grips too. It's worth too dad-blanged much to carry it. I sold it to a best friend, who sold it to my brother, who willed it to me when he died. So, it has special meaning to me.
Something else I hope to pass on to someone who gives a crap is my Parabellum Luger- something I lusted after all my life- a minty specimen made by Mauser in 1940. Original grips numbered to the gun, with ivories I added myself to fulfill my dream. Even have a couple boxes of original military ammo.
As it stands now, I have no one to leave them to....

 

[orygun]

As it stands now, I have no one to leave them to....

That sucks. I was in a similar position years ago, but families grow and some friends become close enough they might as well be family.
Hopefully your circle will expand.

 

[Mygrainman]

So here's one for you. Growing up, my Dad and Uncle went hunting every fall. They both carried Ruger M77 rifles with iron sights, blued steel, walnut stocks, and rock hard red recoil pads.
My Father's rifle is in 7mm RemMag, my Uncle's in .30-06.

Now, I know my Dad's rifle will be mine someday. I had always hoped to inherit my Uncle's as well. Recently, his son moved to Alaska and started taking an interest in hunting, so he laid rightful claim to his Dad's rifle. This left a hole in my heart and safe.

So I went out and bought one just like Uncle's (with the exception of the tasco scope). It is a legacy gun because I couldn't own the exact rifle, I had to have the next best thing...

A friend of my little brothers moved here from alaska and my family kinda odopted him into the fold and he lived with my parents until he got married and moved to Utah. He left behind what was his late fathers M77 30-06 very much like your uncles... his legacy gun.
Last time he shot it was up in alaska when it was pouring down rain. He put it away in a case, and didn't open it until months later..
But by then the rust had really taken a toll. I found it last year, in a closet at my folks house...still rusting away in the case, and decided to strip it down and reblue it.
There is still a bit of pitting, but it was infinitely better when I was done with it. the rust was thick in a bunch of spots like around the muzzle, the scope rings, the worst of it along the barrel especially where the water accumulated along the stock.. and the whole thing had some surface rust. It took a lot of sanding and turning it on a homemade lathe I made from a drill and scrap wood, but I got it as good as I could.
I can't find the before photos, but I took these to send to Utah to show him the after... I wanted to keep it looking well used as it was....Just sans rust. It did a lot of beating brush in Alaska and all the scratches and gouges on the stock etc were memories of his Dad. He was quite happy. He thought the rifle was beyond salvation.

 

[Argonaut]

We have a few legacy guns (my brothers and I) the oldest is an Iver Johnson top break 38 (?) that my great grandmother bought new. She kept it handy, carried it in her pocket while she, my grandmother, siblings and her younger brother drove a team of draft horses and wagon to there new ranch from Spokane to Craigmont Idaho. It is restored and still functions fine. We have my grand fathers M67a Winchester, M14 Remington and another grandfathers P17 and Colt 1903 32 pocket gun. That grandfather always carried a gun but in later years it was an aweful Rhom 22 that was truly an equal hazard to the shooter and intended receiver. It has been lost.....(no loss). I think of the gun's we leave behind and how they illustrate who we were to future generations that will never have a chance to know us. One of the reasons I only own what I consider the best quality and designs available. Things like Savage, Mosburg and Ruger are good useable firearms but will never be in the class of Colt, S&W, Steyr, Remington, Suhl built guns. My great grandmother and grandfather are seated and my grandmother stands behind her. The rest are great aunts and uncles that I knew most of well. Photo from 1916, the handsome tall young man is my Uncle Howard that died a year later in the flu epidemic of 1917. History is fastinating, particularly when it is a part of our own.

 

[Mygrainman]

Things like Savage, Mosburg and Ruger are good useable firearms but will never be in the class of Colt, S&W, Steyr, Remington, Suhl built guns.

If the trend of plasticizing everything, using lighter materials and smaller more complex components continues... 100 years from now, The guns of the present and recent past... even some of the polymer guns, will likely outclass the newer products... and our grandchildrens, grandchildren will be debating the nuances of thier antiquated designs. They may be using computerized electronic detonation instead of pin and primer, and who knows what else.
Also have to wonder what calamities our collections will have to survive to still exist in the future... how many gun grabs, wars, economic collapses, house fires, what ever... in 100 years what guns will still be in the hands of our families to enjoy?

 

[Argonaut]

If the trend of plasticizing everything, using lighter materials and smaller more complex components continues... 100 years from now, The guns of the present and recent past... even some of the polymer guns, will likely outclass the newer products... and our grandchildrens, grandchildren will be debating the nuances of thier antiquated designs. They may be using computerized electronic detonation instead of pin and primer, and who knows what else.
Also have to wonder what calamities our collections will have to survive to still exist in the future... how many gun grabs, wars, economic collapses, house fires, what ever... in 100 years what guns will still be in the hands of our families to enjoy?

I agree to a point but I think Andy's collection proves the interest and utility of quality designed and built machines from prior generations. Old guns are not likely to be used in front line combat but will always have a place if only on the wall or a museum.

 

[twa2471]

My problem is that I have about 20 guns that have been passed down for several generations and I just can't really bring myself to sell or trade them off. I've got tons of Grand kids that may just hold that against me in later years if I did.

Sadly,,,,some I just don't use and I could use the $$$ instead. Some are rather high end guns that rarely if ever get used and most are pretty pristine so have really good values. But sense there a part of family history, how can I possibly justify selling or trading them?
A bit of a dilemma I guess?

As an example I've got a couple Luger's , a P-38 (all family WW1 & WW11 captures/bring backs) and a dandy 280 Ross 1910 sporting rifle and a early Marlin take down 22 lever action that were my Great Grampa's rifles. I'd kinda like to move them , but how can I possibly justify that when they have such a long family history?

But I'm also disabled due to a fall and living on limited income. Obviously a few extra bucks wouldn't hurt.

I'm defiantly torn as to what to do with them,,,,,especially sense family history has always been important to all of us in the family.

I'm in the same boat when it comes to some early furniture that has been in the family for generations or family made.

Some stuff dating back to pre American Revolution periods with pretty high values and a high collector values. I have several antique dealers and historical society's locally that have approached me with some very fair and firm standing offers on many pieces I have.The fort itself has a standing offers on 2 particular pieces I have also.

One small table in particular having a direct and confirmed provenance associated with Ethan Allen and Fort Ticonderoga and shown in the background of a painting of Ethan Allen done around 1774 that is displayed at the fort right now. My family hails from that area sense before the settlers even came to the Americas. Many items in my collection have a direct correlation to the fort, the people there and that time period sense some of my ancestors were either solders or native guides there or literally lived in the shadow of Fort Ti and Mt Independence.

Not even including my extensive Native American artifact collection associated with this area and the fort, which were more than likely made by my pre history ancestors for possibly hundreds if not thousands of years .

So which is most important, family history , national history or money ???
I want to keep family history alive and artifacts in the family, but the bucks and having important historical artifacts being displayed properly for all to enjoy is also very important to me.


Myself I'm leaning towards having the historical items on display/on loan to Fort Ti but ownership retained by my family and sense most don't seem to show any interest in the artifacts , they may just go to the Mt Independence museum as a family gift.

What to do,,what to do ????? What would your input be on this if you guys were in my shoes? I'm 68 now so this is something I'll have to consider carefully pretty soon as my time is getting short.

 

[KKG]

twa2471; I think I understand some of your Issues. I think I'd consider selling some of the Firearms to the family members that would be getting them when you are gone. Get the Guns appraised and offer them at half price with the understanding that they are not to be Sold until you are gone.

After my Grandad passed I purchased his Guns from my Grandma. Grandad had been sick for several years and she really needed the money. I was only 16 and had to have my Dad pay her and then I finally paid him. I was able to keep them in the family and it made me feel really good.

 

[twa2471]

Good advice KKG. Sadly my brother's a real smuck and lost his privileges and my sisters that both love to shoot and love guns too, couldn't afford them, even at half value. But they may get passed down to them in the long run anyways. Even if I don't get any jingle out of them.

Funds aren't at a critical juncture so selling items isn't really imperative at this point . I'm more looking into the future as what to save for the Grand kids and my own kids and family. And trying to figure out what might be better off with a new owner or on displayed someplace nice, like in a museum.



Like the table I mentioned before and a Brown Bess that has provenance tracing it to one of the original Green Mt Boys . There literally a piece of history that should be displayed and really should be at Ft Ti or Mt Independence IMHO. And Ft Ti Museum has a keen interest in both. But still there a big part of our family history as well so that has to be considered too when I decide on where they'll eventually go.

That's the rub for me.

Obviously the Lugers and P-38 will stay in the family sense 2 of my grandads personally captured 1 of the Luger's and the P-38 , the other Luger Pa took in on trade from the guy that captured it in WW11, so those all have good value and provenance. All have the matching holsters, mags and take down tools too. One Luger is a American Eagle non import that ended up being issued during WW1, at least it was captured at Bellow Woods and carried by a German soldier. It's all matching , the bore's just a sewer pipe, the rest is totally shoot-able and half way decent other wise.
Guess the original owner must of lost his cleaning rod in the trenches or something ?? LOL!! The bore is horrible!!!

I don't think the Grand kids have matured enough to fully appreciate them for what they are family history and historically wise. Lots of nice Mauser's,Marlins, Colts, S&W's ect , all pretty good stuff.

I'm mostly afraid they may not get taken care of properly. That would be a shame to let that happen to some rarer and outstanding examples of older guns. None of my Grand kids are all that careful with things and have allot to learn about taking care of stuff so far. I Hope they out grow that trait!

There's only a few multi thousand dollar guns, but 99% of the others that will be passed down, are just prime or un-issued examples of there type that would fetch top dollar for there respective make & models so it would be truly a shame to have them damaged in any way by being in the wrong hands.

 

[KKG]

Well, Good Luck!

 

[MountainBear]

I might look in to a long term loan of some of your items, especially those with significant provenance and local connections, to the museums. You are correct, they should be enjoyed by people, but I would definitely want to retain ownership. I would have a lawyer when I discussed the arrangements with the museums.
That way after you are gone (long down the road hopefully), your heirs could determine if they want to continue the arrangement, sell them to the museum, or bring them home.
That's what I would do, but I am not in that situation. I lived in Vermont for five years, but my family was so migratory over the last 150 years that we didn't amass quite the history.
If you get a chance to show a photo of the Green Mtn. Boys musket, you'd probably have a lot of fans! Especially @AndyinEverson who is something of our resident black powder expert...

 

[twa2471]

Actually the Brown Bess is at Ft Ti and has been for almost a year. Much of my local artifacts I just brought back to my own museum from the local museum over the town library after a 5 year display/loan arrangement.

Being retired now after my injury I get the chance do a bit of volunteer work with several collages from VT NH,NY and Maine anthropology and archaeology departments and sometimes with the state and a couple Forest Service archaeologist and with the Lake Champlain Maritime Museum.

I help out doing excavations on local sites and try to participate as much as possible on what ever digs are available,,as much as the old bones allow anyhow.

Sometimes digging, cataloging, doing lab work helping out students ,,,or what ever else they can find to keep me busy!! I'm pretty well known here in New England in those circles, maybe a bit more so in the past when I was more active, but still pretty well known. As is my collection, I get 10-15 visits a year from researchers, collages, state and federal archaeologists wanting to share site information and giving me help cataloging my collection into the historical records. Ya, preserving history is a big priority for me.

BTW I never did mention that archaeology was my collage major when I went back to finish up a degree in 2001.

Ya Surprised? LOL!

Obviously I'm quite interested in local history and in the founding of our nations history, especially sense my family was directly involved.
Actually one of my ancestors was killed in the Battle of Hubberton July 7 1777 covering the retreat of colonial soldiers from Mount Independence and Fort Ticonderoga.

So with those things taken into account I have more than just a passing curiosity about the Revolutionary War period obviously.

I'll check through my discs and see if I can find some photos of my personal museum. It's pretty darn nice and has several different types of artifacts and just plain "neat old stuff" in general. They may be a bit dated ,,like 3-4 years old or better, but the bulk of my collection should be represented pretty well. If I don't find that disc tonight I'll snap some photos tomorrow.

Other than my firearms,which are in a vault or in my safes and not normally on display, along with probably a couple hundred more native artifacts that have been added sense they were taken, I think you guys will still be impressed when you see the pics. It's a packed to the gills 16X38' building,,,filled with lots of goodies!!! A lifetimes worth.

Here's a quick one I found right off of the Bess in action several years back. I'm behind the fat guy,my nephew,,LOL!

 

[MountainBear]

Which town do you live in? Ft. Ti is close to where I lived.