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The Dehumanization Of Us
- Thread Starter DuneHopper
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I can't comply. But war sucks.
I agree.
So does complacency.
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The thing about road blocks, They only work when manned by willing men! Men are mortal!
Same thing with any other "Enemy" no matter who is in charge, cut them, they bleed, starve them, they suffer!
One hard and determined man with his rifle can change history! Oh how the mighty will fall, and be brought low!
When the dust settles, only those who have to moral fortitude will have a chance to right the wrongs of this world, and some times it takes hard choices and hard words, and when those fail, bullets are the ultimate negotiator!
Same thing with any other "Enemy" no matter who is in charge, cut them, they bleed, starve them, they suffer!
One hard and determined man with his rifle can change history! Oh how the mighty will fall, and be brought low!
When the dust settles, only those who have to moral fortitude will have a chance to right the wrongs of this world, and some times it takes hard choices and hard words, and when those fail, bullets are the ultimate negotiator!
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So...
Just an observation here from a history nerd :
Groups like The Sons of Liberty operated best in secret , using codes , cyphers , spies , clandestine meetings and such...
They helped sparked one revolution ...might be wise to read up on them and learn what we can.
Andy
Just an observation here from a history nerd :
Groups like The Sons of Liberty operated best in secret , using codes , cyphers , spies , clandestine meetings and such...
They helped sparked one revolution ...might be wise to read up on them and learn what we can.
Andy
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Awesome advice Andy, Might be a good read, the history of the U.S. Army Special Forces mission profile, much is based on the very capabilities you mention!
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So we have a government that's not listening to us gun owners whos says the next government will be any better - how do we know that we aren't trading something we dislike for something we truly hate. Who gets to be king? I am for fixing what we have not destroying it.
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Nothing like living in a country whose national pastime is :
Coup of the week and or What would the current local warlord do...?
Been to countries with that...didn't like it.
Or as that line from "Won't get fooled again" states :
"Meet the new boss ....Same as the old boss..."
We have / had a excellent system of government ...we already have all the "paperwork" in place.
A good start would be have our elected officials :
Read , understand and follow the rules , regulations , guidelines etc...Set down in the Constitution.
Andy
Coup of the week and or What would the current local warlord do...?
Been to countries with that...didn't like it.
Or as that line from "Won't get fooled again" states :
"Meet the new boss ....Same as the old boss..."
We have / had a excellent system of government ...we already have all the "paperwork" in place.
A good start would be have our elected officials :
Read , understand and follow the rules , regulations , guidelines etc...Set down in the Constitution.
Andy
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I am not trying to be "Troll Like" with following....
Also understand that despite my liking of 18th and 19th century firearms and related gear...does not mean that I think that we all should only allowed certain firearms....I am not a so called "Fudd".
I am all for a US citizen being able to own whatever firearm they can afford...
I say this because here in this very forum , my stance on the 2nd Amendment and even patriotism has been called into question ,when making similar statements in the past....
With that said...
There is "dehumanization" on both sides of the gun issue.
Gun owners are indeed dehumanized ....we can see this going on in various media outlets , it is done by more than a few political groups / Special interest groups etc...
I am not arguing that it is not happening.
But...
Many times some of the same , is being done by gun owners against anti-gun people.
Blanket statements...
Blunt , over the top , in your face comments and or attitude...
Creative spins or editing on political leaders / advocacy groups...pictures and public statements...
Assuming...
Name calling...
Again all of the above and more is being done to pro gun groups and gun owners...I am not arguing that its not.
However I am saying that :
If you do not like that happening to you ...don't do the same to others.
I am also not saying that we as gun owners are to be a "doormat" and have folks walk all over us.
Of course stand up...make your voice heard , vote pro gun , write , campaign etc....
Look at new ways to get your message out.
But employing the same methods that opposition uses...ones that get you* all fired up , the very same ones that you** complain about...isn't the way to go either.
Please note that I am not saying that this is going on here in this thread ...or that anyone here is doing any of the above....
Just tossing out an observation of behaviors or actions that I have seen....by both sides of the issue.
* with the use of the word "you" ...again note that I am saying anyone here in particular.
Andy
Also understand that despite my liking of 18th and 19th century firearms and related gear...does not mean that I think that we all should only allowed certain firearms....I am not a so called "Fudd".
I am all for a US citizen being able to own whatever firearm they can afford...
I say this because here in this very forum , my stance on the 2nd Amendment and even patriotism has been called into question ,when making similar statements in the past....
With that said...
There is "dehumanization" on both sides of the gun issue.
Gun owners are indeed dehumanized ....we can see this going on in various media outlets , it is done by more than a few political groups / Special interest groups etc...
I am not arguing that it is not happening.
But...
Many times some of the same , is being done by gun owners against anti-gun people.
Blanket statements...
Blunt , over the top , in your face comments and or attitude...
Creative spins or editing on political leaders / advocacy groups...pictures and public statements...
Assuming...
Name calling...
Again all of the above and more is being done to pro gun groups and gun owners...I am not arguing that its not.
However I am saying that :
If you do not like that happening to you ...don't do the same to others.
I am also not saying that we as gun owners are to be a "doormat" and have folks walk all over us.
Of course stand up...make your voice heard , vote pro gun , write , campaign etc....
Look at new ways to get your message out.
But employing the same methods that opposition uses...ones that get you* all fired up , the very same ones that you** complain about...isn't the way to go either.
Please note that I am not saying that this is going on here in this thread ...or that anyone here is doing any of the above....
Just tossing out an observation of behaviors or actions that I have seen....by both sides of the issue.
* with the use of the word "you" ...again note that I am saying anyone here in particular.
Andy
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- Thread Starter
- #71
@AndyinEverson
I can agree on allot, but I do think and believe blanket statements are indeed something that is both accurate and applicable.
When a particular group, decides all the anti-gun laws and passes said laws. Then they are responsible, that in turn in a blanket statement.
Just like, law abiding gun owners do not cause the problems with gun ownership or crime. Again a blanket statement.
There is also a particular group that opposes the majority of these laws, and therefore that group is also blanketed into that group of those opposing said laws.
I respect what you wrote Andy, truly do. The reality is people that appear to be sought after in what you wrote, simply do no exist. Not in the a way that would invoke change.
Oh perhaps in a very very small percentage they do. But the reality is we are divided in thought and even party lines in this country. The more we try and ignore this thought, the more we lose ground.
I think the behaviors observed at times are also accurate, while maybe not tolerated in this kinder gentler firearms group. The reality is people have watched a particular group pass over 450 laws in 10 years, done at the hands of one group. It would be very unreasonable to then ask these same people that have been victimized to now be tolerant towards that group that causes all said problems.
I guess I will have to agree that I disagree allot on the direction I see encouraged, and on how unity is to come about. I do not think pro-gun conservatives need to do the reaching out of hands. When we have seen this many laws being passed, it is unreasonable to ask people to act like nothing happened and reach out and shake the opposition hands because now they claim they want unity.
To close this thought, the group that has passed all these laws was victimized by the other how? By standing up and calling them out on their stuff? There is only one victimized group of gun owners in this fight. Sure all sides lose rights, but one side is doing it then asking for tolerance and unity. I just do not see Unity ever happening, unless of course we once again compromise.
I can agree on allot, but I do think and believe blanket statements are indeed something that is both accurate and applicable.
When a particular group, decides all the anti-gun laws and passes said laws. Then they are responsible, that in turn in a blanket statement.
Just like, law abiding gun owners do not cause the problems with gun ownership or crime. Again a blanket statement.
There is also a particular group that opposes the majority of these laws, and therefore that group is also blanketed into that group of those opposing said laws.
I respect what you wrote Andy, truly do. The reality is people that appear to be sought after in what you wrote, simply do no exist. Not in the a way that would invoke change.
Oh perhaps in a very very small percentage they do. But the reality is we are divided in thought and even party lines in this country. The more we try and ignore this thought, the more we lose ground.
I think the behaviors observed at times are also accurate, while maybe not tolerated in this kinder gentler firearms group. The reality is people have watched a particular group pass over 450 laws in 10 years, done at the hands of one group. It would be very unreasonable to then ask these same people that have been victimized to now be tolerant towards that group that causes all said problems.
I guess I will have to agree that I disagree allot on the direction I see encouraged, and on how unity is to come about. I do not think pro-gun conservatives need to do the reaching out of hands. When we have seen this many laws being passed, it is unreasonable to ask people to act like nothing happened and reach out and shake the opposition hands because now they claim they want unity.
To close this thought, the group that has passed all these laws was victimized by the other how? By standing up and calling them out on their stuff? There is only one victimized group of gun owners in this fight. Sure all sides lose rights, but one side is doing it then asking for tolerance and unity. I just do not see Unity ever happening, unless of course we once again compromise.
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My main point in post #70 to be clear :
If you don't like it happening to you ...don't do it to others....
Andy
If you don't like it happening to you ...don't do it to others....
Andy
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I am a gunowner and have been all my life. I have empathy for those that have lost family members ( some of the opposition ) due to shootings and feel that many in pain our looking for solutions to prevent this from happening again. I don't think either side us or them know the answer. Some / most of the opposition have a much larger agenda and to those I have no respect or consideration.
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Precisely... being too loud-and-proud brazen only invites "making an example of" by one side and "martyrdom" by the other.
There are causes worth "selling one's life dearly" for, and then there's doing so unnecessarily. The fruits of your victory always taste better when you can still be around to enjoy them.
For the record, we've repeatedly tried reaching out, and gotten nothing but one slap to the face after another for it. The Marquis of Queensberry Rules only work when all sides abide by them, otherwise we're sadly back to Jungle Law... this us the lesson that Establishment Resucklicans are unwilling or unable to learn.
Last Edited:
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The Golden Rule;
Do unto others as you would want them to do unto you.
becomes
The Revised Golden Rule;
Do unto others as you feel their doing unto you.
becomes
Eventual Golden Rule:
Better do unto others because you just know they're going to do you over, and they'll keep doing it unto you until there's no you.
Kinda like re-interpreting the Constitution, the meaning gets turned around.
Do unto others as you would want them to do unto you.
becomes
The Revised Golden Rule;
Do unto others as you feel their doing unto you.
becomes
Eventual Golden Rule:
Better do unto others because you just know they're going to do you over, and they'll keep doing it unto you until there's no you.
Kinda like re-interpreting the Constitution, the meaning gets turned around.
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- Thread Starter
- #76
There is a quick and easy answer, do not allow local governments to dictate the definition of the United States Constitution
and the Bill Of Rights. The only place such a debate should ever be allowed is at the at the highest court of the land, the Supreme Court, where such judgment and interpretation is allowed.
Allowing these bozos who run for state offices whom are neither qualified nor should be legally able to decide Constitutional Law. Ive read a book on Heart Transplants once, and doesn't make me a surgeon. We like our states and like the independence they give, but allowing them to judge how my civil rights are handled is wrong and has been wrong along time. Only time such a intervention should be allowed is to secure civil rights not remove them.
And as stated, 480 laws passed all by one group, what more writing on the wall needs discussing?
Hard to be tolerant when the rules are tilted everywhere you go.
and the Bill Of Rights. The only place such a debate should ever be allowed is at the at the highest court of the land, the Supreme Court, where such judgment and interpretation is allowed.
Allowing these bozos who run for state offices whom are neither qualified nor should be legally able to decide Constitutional Law. Ive read a book on Heart Transplants once, and doesn't make me a surgeon. We like our states and like the independence they give, but allowing them to judge how my civil rights are handled is wrong and has been wrong along time. Only time such a intervention should be allowed is to secure civil rights not remove them.
And as stated, 480 laws passed all by one group, what more writing on the wall needs discussing?
Hard to be tolerant when the rules are tilted everywhere you go.
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The Golden Rule
Do unto others as you would want them to do unto you.
The Hayduke Corollary
After first contact under Golden Rule, interpret others' actions toward you as a statement of preference towards themselves, and do unto them accordingly.
Do unto others as you would want them to do unto you.
The Hayduke Corollary
After first contact under Golden Rule, interpret others' actions toward you as a statement of preference towards themselves, and do unto them accordingly.
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