The 2 CRS guys on trial by ATF were found guilty

[Yarome]

Here is the initial indictment, don't know how much if any this changed by the time they got to trial

https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap ... 9.57.0.pdf

Soo... that's all they have it seems. The basis charge for all charges being their contending that they were mfg'ing and distributing "machine gun conversion PARTS".

Everything hinges then on if a judge and jury accepts the interpretation of the NFA by the alphabet that lines on a piece of flat metal constitute an actual "part". That seems like quite a stretch. I mean, if you put lines on a rectangular block of aluminum... is that a "firearm"?

I'm sticking with the, "we know it doesn't hold water but we will destroy you, anyway... because we can" theory.

 

[VinnieBoomBah]

Soo... that's all they have it seems.

Not necessarily. An indictment (especially the first one) isn't a total disclosure of the evidence and often times information is intentional left out for a variety of reasons.

 

[Member 34319]

If you are referring to the unkempt idiot on CRS I mentioned in another thread then you are most likely correct about him seeming mentally impaired.

When this was going on I watched it just so I could have a vague understanding of it (the key card thing) and in one of his vids he was going off like a deranged idiot screaming 'Eff the FBI' and some other stuff I can't remember but he certainly didn't do himself any favors.

People like him are a scourge to the gun community as a whole and don't do us any favors but to demonstrate the idiocy of how a lot of them are.

Similar to another popular YouTuber that goes by Whistlingdeisel who destroys vehicles idiotically. These people are entertainers. They are far less idiotic behind the scenes. CRS knew there is a vast amount of crazy in the US gun community and like Alex Jones, uses the vast amount of crazy to his advantage. The guy was making bank on YouTube. Then when his money source started getting cut via YouTube policies, he went out and got affiliates to fund his work.

Stating this about him only shows that these folks truly work over those that don't quite understand what actually takes place on YouTube.

He may appear stupid, but he has to relate to his audience. He is just one of many trying to make money on the internet. Unfortunately for him, he got himself into a heap of trouble with those he decided to try and make money with.

 

[Yarome]

Similar to another popular YouTuber that goes by Whistlingdeisel who destroys vehicles idiotically. These people are entertainers. They are far less idiotic behind the scenes. CRS knew there is a vast amount of crazy in the US gun community and like Alex Jones, uses the vast amount of crazy to his advantage. The guy was making bank on YouTube. Then when his money source started getting cut via YouTube policies, he went out and got affiliates to fund his work.

Stating this about him only shows that these folks truly work over those that don't quite understand what actually takes place on YouTube.

He may appear stupid, but he has to relate to his audience. He is just one of many trying to make money on the internet. Unfortunately for him, he got himself into a heap of trouble with those he decided to try and make money with.

Well... I have to agree with RVTECH. Playing the part for entertainment value to make bank doesn't change the fact that he is still representing the firearms community.... and it's not a good look. Especially at a time in our history when active effort is being made at the highest levels to dismantle our rights.

 

[GripItAndRipIt]

I have not paid much attention to this but, I have LONG said that poking the ATF Bear is NOT wise. Do it long enough and they will bite. Now from what I see here will these guys win some day? Probably. Will they think it was worth poking that Bear?

Especially considering the current head of ATF is a rabid gun hater.

 

[RVTECH]

He may appear stupid, but he has to relate to his audience.

Well, if his audience is 'gun people' and he has to 'relate' to them, then this is somewhat disturbing.

I have seen a lot of good, proactive YT gun sites that promote quality and intelligent information but CRS is not one of them.

 

[Member 34319]

Well... I have to agree with RVTECH. Playing the part for entertainment value to make bank doesn't change the fact that he is still representing the firearms community.... and it's not a good look. Especially at a time in our history when active effort is being made at the highest levels to dismantle our rights.

Well, if his audience is 'gun people' and he has to 'relate' to them, then this is somewhat disturbing.

I have seen a lot of good, proactive YT gun sites that promote quality and intelligent information but CRS is not one of them.

Having done a few years of volunteer work with ODF about 6-7 years ago mapping Tillamook State Forest for shooting locations and approaching shooters whenever possible. I can confirm that not only does he represent a large portion of the gun community, it hasn't gotten any better in the years since I've given up trying to make the community better and or safer. I am at the point where even these threads and others similar where we can't agree to disagree, can look horribly for our community.

I am in agreement that CRS is a poor look for our community. Sadly, it is part of our community. Even some here on NWFA are a poor look for our community. That's just the nature of the gun community. Are liberal gun owners a good look for our community? How about larpers? Not trying to inflame really, just curious to what IS the proper look for our community?

CRS spewed a lot of nonsense and boarder line idiotic at times when the YouTube algorithm popped up one of his videos on my feed, but I've always known he is an entertainer trying to invoke that part of our community that likes that stuff into "hit that like button, smash that subscribe button, and crush that notification bell"

 

[ColeInOregon]

The Auto Key Card guy may have had a case based on 1a, however when him and CRS decided to advertise these as machine guns they crossed the line from art to intent. The prosecution brought up atleast 2 examples of CRS advertising the auto keycard as a "machine gun" and also a video where he told purchasers how to cut out the lightning link.
Also witnesses stated that they had purchased the cards with the intent to convert their weapons to machine guns in the event of a societal collapse.
IANAL but that seems like clear intent to sell illegal machine guns.

 

[VinnieBoomBah]

IANAL but that seems like clear intent to sell illegal machine guns.

Noooooooo! Don't you understand that it's not his fault!?!?! YouTube made him do it when they changed the way people can make money on there. He HAD to do it just to . . . oh no, hold on a sec



Sorry about that, tried real hard but couldn't get all the way though that (hopefully obviously sarcastic) rant without throwing up in my mouth a bit

They were doing illegal things, they knew they were illegal and they tried to hide the illegal things they were doing.

And NO! I don't think the auto key cards or coat hangers or hooks or ANY of that stuff should be illegal, but thanks to Reagan they are.

#FactsOverFeelings

 

[nwslopoke]

They don't care about criminals/gangsters because these people don't threaten the politicians power (guess how most of them vote....). It's the law abiding, legal gun owners that's the biggest potential threat to the politicians power.

Agreed. These people aren't demanding freedoms. They are pleading with politicians for programs to make their lives easier. Not for the government to leave them alone.

If politicians really wanted gun safety, violent gangs/criminals would have been mostly eliminated a decade ago. The gun charges alone would have kept them in prison. Instead those are dropped for lesser convictions.

 

[ilikegunspdx]

Good article by John crump here with all the details:

Justin Ervin & Matthew Hoover (CRS Firearms) Found Guilty in Autokey Card Case

In the Autokey Card case, a jury found Matthew Hoover, better known as CRS Firearms on YouTube, and Justin Ervin guilty.

www.ammoland.com

 

[ColeInOregon]

Good article by John crump here with all the details:

Justin Ervin & Matthew Hoover (CRS Firearms) Found Guilty in Autokey Card Case

In the Autokey Card case, a jury found Matthew Hoover, better known as CRS Firearms on YouTube, and Justin Ervin guilty.

www.ammoland.com

As usual Mr. Crump leaves out all the important parts and context.

 

[VinnieBoomBah]

As usual Mr. Crump leaves out all the important parts and context.

 

[ColeInOregon]

View attachment 1409972

Yep, pretty much.

 

[Jade Falcon]

They're morons. They knew exactly what they were doing. They tried to walk "that line", which few people are stupid enough to do without the proper licensing, but they thought they could outsmart the most powerful government on Earth and get away with it. They're idiots, and they deserve exactly what they get. Drawn, etched, or chiseled by a cave man, none of that matters.....it wouldn't take a genius to turn that piece of metal into a workable full-auto mechanism, and they knew that.

If you want to do something, do it legally through a legal process. Don't skip around and be a smart bubblegum. You can see the results of that here.

 

[titsonritz]

 

[CamoDeafie]

They're morons. They knew exactly what they were doing. They tried to walk "that line", which few people are stupid enough to do without the proper licensing, but they thought they could outsmart the most powerful government on Earth and get away with it. They're idiots, and they deserve exactly what they get. Drawn, etched, or chiseled by a cave man, none of that matters.....it wouldn't take a genius to turn that piece of metal into a workable full-auto mechanism, and they knew that.

If you want to do something, do it legally through a legal process. Don't skip around and be a smart bubblegum. You can see the results of that here.

That's rich, considering the ATF have; in the past; taken the position that tying a frigging shoelace to a semiautomatic rifles "redesigns" it into a machine gun.. and the same for bumpstocks (Cargill seems to have struck it down); and I think officially they also say the Forced Reser Triggers are also MGs but they won't do anything about the gangstas with Glock Switches that's all over social media... and I think they themselves admitted they could not get the Autokey card thing to really work as it seemed to?


Oh and the US isn't the most powerful government. It just happens to be one of the most credited/generous governments.

 

[ColeInOregon]

Lol!! I thought the Crump video was bad.
Video guy: What's the crime?
U.S. Govt: Umm, selling illegal machine guns.
Video Guy: But it's victimless!
U.S. Govt: Still illegal.
Video Guy: BUT IT'S VICTIMLESS!!!
U.S. Govt. and a jury of the accused peers: Still illegal.

 

[Jade Falcon]

That's rich, considering the ATF have; in the past; taken the position that tying a frigging shoelace to a semiautomatic rifles "redesigns" it into a machine gun.. and the same for bumpstocks (Cargill seems to have struck it down); and I think officially they also say the Forced Reser Triggers are also MGs but they won't do anything about the gangstas with Glock Switches that's all over social media... and I think they themselves admitted they could not get the Autokey card thing to really work as it seemed to?


Oh and the US isn't the most powerful government. It just happens to be one of the most credited/generous governments.

Whataboutisms may work on gun forums, but they don't work in a court of law.

And if you think there is another more powerful government out there, I'd love to hear it, lmao. Should bring much entertainment to this thread. Let me guess....it's in that country where empty apartment buildings are made of glass bottles and bamboo, and defended by Cold War-era technology....

 

[CamoDeafie]

Whataboutisms may work on gun forums, but they don't work in a court of law.

And if you think there is another more powerful government out there, I'd love to hear it, lmao. Should bring much entertainment to this thread. Let me guess....it's in that country where empty apartment buildings are made of glass bottles and bamboo, and defended by Cold War-era technology....

I'm just saying it's the one that owns most of the US debt and politicians by way of how much donations and how much crap we buy from them.