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Standardization of weapons and ammo in a SHTF scenario.

Discussion in 'Preparedness & Survival' started by Eddie1962, Apr 2, 2012.

  1. Eddie1962

    Eddie1962 Lake Stevens, WA Member

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    Crazy question - in a SHTF world, does it make sense to standardize so everyone in your group has the same handguns and ammo? I was thinking, if my group has circled the wagons, hunkered down, and has to engage in a fire-fight, wouldn't it make more sense if we all had, let say, 9mm Sig 226's as opposed to Tom shooting his H&K, Dick his Sig 229, Harry his 357 revolver, and Maggie her pink 1911?

    Wouldn't it make more sense for Tom, Dick, Harry, and Maggie to have all 9mm 226's and as much ammo and as many of the same magazines as humanly possible?

    I use Sigs only for illustration sake and because I love Sigs. But the standard weapon could be whatever floats your boat.
     
  2. Dunerunner

    Dunerunner You'll Never Know Well-Known Member

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    Or at least the same ammo eating critters...9mm, 5.56, .308, etc!
     
  3. Eddie1962

    Eddie1962 Lake Stevens, WA Member

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    Cross useage for ammo on long arms is easier. A 12 ga shell will fit in any 12ga shotgun. Same with a 5.56, 308, etc. But with a sidearm, my buddy's H&K magazine will not fit my Sig and vise a versa. If one runs dry, the other can't just toss him a mag so he can reengage. One would have to reload his mags while the other engages alone while expending twice the ammo until his buddy is done reloading and engaged again.
     
  4. erudne

    erudne The Pie Matrix PPL Say Sleeping W/Your Rifle Is A bad Thing? Bronze Supporter

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    stick with the ammo issue
    handguns; one size does not fit all. Handguns never won a battle.
    Rifles:
    If you get in a real fight, or are besieged the various weapon platforms will self-determine thier usefulness by range and capability.
    You will need and 800 yard rifle in the group.
    beyond that "need"
    It's no longer which caliber but how much lead you can throw
     
  5. halmbarte

    halmbarte PDX Active Member

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    He shoulda brought his own damn mags!!!

    Standardize on ammo sure. Actual weapons, not so much.

    For example, I might carry either the P226 or a P229 if I want a slightly smaller, lighter weapon. If I have spare short mags for the P229, they can't be used in the 226.

    But both are 9mmP so I can crossload ammo from the magazines or refill from the same box of ammo.

    H
     
  6. mjbskwim

    mjbskwim Salmon,Idaho Well-Known Member

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    In a perfect world.......
    All your comrades would have the same pistols and rifles as you,but it doesn't always work that way.
    I am keeping my 9mms to the Glocks.And the 45s to 1911s.Mainly because both are very easy to find mags and the owners make better friends....,joke.

    Maybe,if you have a set of friends/relatives that will be congregating,you could decide what weapons to keep as the main SHTF weapons
    All get at least 1 226 and 10 magazines for it,or as you said,whatever floats your boat
    Same with the rifles.
    Then you will all have interchangeable mags and parts if it comes to that.
    Someone could have a primary weapon of choice,then if that runs dry,change to the camp's main weapon,so you can have the same ammo as the rest of your militia.

    I do agree that there should be at least on sniper hanging out.And pick one person.Not whoever gets to the bolt gun first,the best shot.
     
  7. M67

    M67 NW Oregon Active Member

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    I think it is a very good idea, to a degree.

    My family and i have choosen to go with all matching Sig Sauers in 9mm, for our primary handguns. Same holsters, ammo, mags, parts, etc..

    For rifles we have choosen the 7.62x39mm and 7.62x51 as our primary calibers for daily use.

    But these are not our only options for rifles.

    And i also agree that there should be at least one dedicated sniper, that is up to the task.

    M67
     
  8. MikeSettles

    MikeSettles Vancouver, Washington Active Member

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    My recommendation: It's most important to standardize on rifle ammo, then pistol, then shotgun, then "sniper" rifle.
    Best to settle on what the military is using: They have the largest stockpiles of ammo in the nation.
    Consider 5.56mm for rifles (magazines are standard across the group), then 9mm Luger for pistols (modern self-defense ammo can make up for a lack of power compared to .40 S&W or .45 ACP). 12 ga. 2 3/4 for shotguns, 7.62mm for designated marksmen, .300 Win Mag for actual snipers. .50 BMG can supplement , but unless you've got a millionare buying ammo, your group will hard-pressed to support such a weapon.

    I recommend each group member have at least a double basic-load of magazines for each firearm. I speak of MILITARY basic loads, not the 2-3 mags taken to a weekend practical rifle match by a weekend competitor. The minimum basic load for a 5.56mm rifle is seven 30-round magazines (210 rounds) (I carry nine - 270 rounds); 4 to 6 pistol magazines (60 to 90 rounds in fifteen-round mags); 100 rounds (five 20 rounders) for a 7.62mm semi-auto (like an M1A or M110); 30 rounds for 300 Win Mag, 25 rounds of 12 gauge. Double the number of magazines to have a cushion against lost mags, mags which go bad, and to be able to switch-out loaded with unloaded mags to rest the springs.
     
  9. Mark W.

    Mark W. Silverton, OR Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    You guys better stock up on band aids
     
  10. Decker

    Decker My house Active Member

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    I am still building our kits so i ask because i have never served in the armed forces... How much is something like that gonna weigh? I'm not sure those in my group are going to be doing any long distance hiking with that much ammo. Hmmm... Thoughts?
     
  11. Nwcid

    Nwcid Yakima and N of Spokane Well-Known Member

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    Well what if you get low on ammo. Shouldnt you have as many varied calibers that way when scavenging you have a better chance of having something it will fit? :swordfight::eatpop:
     
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  12. Eddie1962

    Eddie1962 Lake Stevens, WA Member

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    mjbskwim says - "Maybe,if you have a set of friends/relatives that will be congregating,you could decide what weapons to keep as the main SHTF weapons"...... That's exactly what I'm thinking.

    M67 says - "My family and i have choosen to go with all matching Sig Sauers in 9mm, for our primary handguns. Same holsters, ammo, mags, parts, etc"......This is exactly what I mean as far a sidearm goes.

    MikeSettle says - "Best to settle on what the military is using: They have the largest stockpiles of ammo in the nation.
    Consider 5.56mm for rifles (magazines are standard across the group), then 9mm Luger for pistols (modern self-defense ammo can make up for a lack of power compared to .40 S&W or .45 ACP). 12 ga. 2 3/4 for shotguns, 7.62mm for designated marksmen, .300 Win Mag for actual snipers. .50 BMG can supplement , but unless you've got a millionare buying ammo, your group will hard-pressed to support such a weapon".....I agree. When thinking beyond just sidearms, this resembles a more practical approach for our group. The exceptions being, we'd go with a 308 for snipers because that's what we have, and we can't do a 50 because we can't afford it. But the premise is simple, practicle, and as important, managable.

    Decker says - "How much is something like that gonna weigh? I'm not sure those in my group are going to be doing any long distance hiking with that much ammo"......A very good point and one that needs to be addressed before time should the group find it necessary to bug-out. As much as I'd love to have the small armory that many in this group seem to have, the reality is that mobilizing heavy equipment in a small civilian group environment is easier said than done.

    Finally, the handgun is just one small component in the whole scheme of things. Snipers, long arms, types of ammo, defensive tactics, bug-out scenarios, etc, all need to be considered. I was not implying that a pre-organized group should only have handguns, that would be silly and probably deadly. There are many things to be considered and hopefully we have all taken them into consideration based on our individual circumstance; such as, the people we are pre-organized with, our budgets, our environnments, and our short/long term plans for a SHTF scenario, etc.

    I was just curious about the sidearm useage for a small pre-organized group.
     
  13. RedneckRampage

    RedneckRampage Newberg Well-Known Member

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    I'm sticking with what most Federal Agents use, .40, 5.56, and 12ga, plus .22lr. Glock 23, Colt or RRA AR15, Remington 870.
     
  14. MikeSettles

    MikeSettles Vancouver, Washington Active Member

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    Hi Decker,
    A full 30-round M16 magazine weighs 1.5 pounds, so 7 x 1.5 = 10.5#. Pistol magazines vary in capacity, so will vary in weight: A loaded 15 round magazine for the Beretta M9 weighs about a pound.

    My point is that if you must fight, you don't want to run out - especially if you can't call on a battalion S-4 to resupply you with magazines and 5.56.
    If you must bug out afoot, you will be limited by weight, but perhaps stronger individuals can carry some of the load for the weaker ones. Also, figure ammo, boxed and/or in magazines, as part of your vehicle load. Distribute the load (ammo, food, fuel, meds) across individuals and across vehicles. Consider cache's.
     
  15. MikeSettles

    MikeSettles Vancouver, Washington Active Member

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    It may be a good idea, as far as a community goes, in a longer-term scenario, and works fine for some tasks like hunting or marksmanship training.

    Consider however the scenario of a small unit in firefight: Rifleman A has been in a position to engage the zombies at a higher rate than rifleman B; A runs dry, is carrying an SKS. B has an AK47. A won't be able to use B's magazines (unless the SKS has been modified). Likewise between AKs and ARs. Most 5.56mm weapons will use the ubiquitous M16 magazine. Only AKs can use AK mags (except for some modified SKSs). Only FALs can use FAL mags; HK91s same; M14/M1A the same.
    Also, after the fire fight, the squad must redistribute ammo between members. You can't do this if there is no commonality.
     
  16. mjbskwim

    mjbskwim Salmon,Idaho Well-Known Member

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    I know this has and will be,debated forever,but I'm not leaving.I'm not bugging out from my home.
    Where are you going to go? Have the ammo there,with the food supplies you should have there already.
    Remember,when you bug out,unless you are going to a area that you know the land and the people,you won't be welcome.You will be better off staying out as long as possible.
    Then we all will carry as much as we can as long as we can. But if you are on foot,you really won't need much ammo since you really won't have that much of a chance in a EOTWAWKI scenario.
    Going over the passes.How safe will that be when the people that live near by will know the terrain better than you and will have set up road blocks or ambushes to obtain supplies.You'll fight back? Before or after their sniper's take out your lead people?
    I just don't think hiking out and trying to find a place will keep you alive.You will have to have a destination pre set and have supplies there waiting

    Staying put or having a place to go BEFORE the S really hits the fan bad is the way to go. Have your guns and ammo there so you don't have to take very much.But plan on using a vehicle to get out of Dodge.
    So if you stand your ground and others come or go to your hideout,you won't need to worry about weight,just having the ammo strategically placed around the compound.
    And having everyone at least have one gun of a common caliber.
    Some will say that the sidearm isn't that important,since the stopping power sucks anyway.More important to have adequate rifles,long arms.

    OK that's at least 3 pennies worth.
     
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  17. mjbskwim

    mjbskwim Salmon,Idaho Well-Known Member

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    Actually,I have thought of buying guns of different calibers just to have for back up.Never know what caliber you may need at any given time.Be a shame to find a case of 40 and have a 45 and a 9mm,lol
     
  18. M67

    M67 NW Oregon Active Member

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    The simple answer to this question is you will not be able to haul much on your back.
    My main bug out bag is a molle 2 large ruck sack with the mss(sleeping bag carrier).
    Fully loaded with all i need for 10 days( including ammo ) weighs 42-45 lbs.
    That is not counting the weight of my handgun and rifle.

    The situation may require you to move quickly, and doing so by a vehicle may not be possible.

    We feel that having more than 1 planned place to bug out to is the best option, just in case.

    Our plan is broken down into 3 parts.

    #1 Stay in place with our supplies we have here. Which is more than enough to last and extended period of time.(2-3 weeks minimum)

    #2 Head to our BOL #1 where we have more weapons, ammo, food, water, medical supplies, etc, already in place.

    #3 Head to our BOL #2 where we have more weapons, ammo, food,water, medical supplies, etc, in place.

    M67
     
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  19. M67

    M67 NW Oregon Active Member

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    Not so, i have heard of many times when a handgun saved the day.

    One example is Alvin C. York. He received the Medal of Honor for leading an attack on a German machine gun nest, killing 28 German soldiers and capturing 132 others.

    After he ran out of ammo for his rifle, a handgun won the battle!

    There is plenty of other examples in history as well, but this is one of the most famous.
     
  20. Steve06

    Steve06 Oregon Active Member

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    I would standardize certain items. That would greatly simplify training, maintenance, procurement. The alternative would be to let everyone get whatever they want and be responsible for spare partsl, armorer skills and supplying their own accessories. Little things like, Magpuls not fitting in USGI ammo pouches could just spoil your day.