Washington Small window about to open for standard capacity magazines in WA on Monday 3/11/24?

[Val1884]

Actually, what we'd say....as the Plaintiff in the HB1240 lawsuit challenging this law in Federal court, until we have more decisive direction for the the AG's office on how they'll enforce the verbage of the HB1240, we must consider the bigger picture and not risk our legal standing within the lawsuit due to our desire to sell a castle nut. Once we had better determination from the AG's office, via their written opinions and responses to Senator Wilson's direct inquiries, the prudent step was to follow the advice of our co plaintiffs an lead counsel (Second Amendment Foundation). With that clarification and intent of the AG's office we replaced many items in the store that we had removed post April 25. It's nice to be selling all of that gear again, with approval of our legal team.

So, there's that and the 4 other lawsuits versus the state that were plaintiffs in, the 5th one were working on and PAYING for ourselves. The No on 1639 campaign, the repeal 1639 campaign, the Lets Go Washington pro gun Initiative in 2022, 10 years of testifying in the legislature, founding the Washington Civil Rights Association, traveling the state to Senate Law and Justice meetings, as well as serving as board member for the Second Amendment Foundation. Then there are the 180,000 citizens using our free 1639 and 1143 classes for free, saving between $5,000,000 and $10,000,000 that we pay for out of pocket.

No offense taken, but clarifying the record without using all caps. We've been doing a little something for the 2A in Washington.

No one said you weren't doing anything. Just stated you talked sheit on a fellow ally in this fight against communism an that they risked more to get the fight started. Don't take offense because people are just stating facts. Wally is risking it all to win for us. You guys use lawyers an money as a risk without possible prosecution in the criminal side. Without the later you have no standing to get in front of a federal court that isn't rigged by Ferguson. Again no need to get offended you guys have taken different approaches to different bills. This approach wally is taking however seems to be the only one that's winning.

 

[Gunbuggy]

Actually, what we'd say....as the Plaintiff in the HB1240 lawsuit challenging this law in Federal court, until we have more decisive direction for the the AG's office on how they'll enforce the verbage of the HB1240, we must consider the bigger picture and not risk our legal standing within the lawsuit due to our desire to sell a castle nut. Once we had better determination from the AG's office, via their written opinions and responses to Senator Wilson's direct inquiries, the prudent step was to follow the advice of our co plaintiffs an lead counsel (Second Amendment Foundation). With that clarification and intent of the AG's office we replaced many items in the store that we had removed post April 25. It's nice to be selling all of that gear again, with approval of our legal team.

So, there's that and the 4 other lawsuits versus the state that were plaintiffs in, the 5th one were working on and PAYING for ourselves. The No on 1639 campaign, the repeal 1639 campaign, the Lets Go Washington pro gun Initiative in 2022, 10 years of testifying in the legislature, founding the Washington Civil Rights Association, traveling the state to Senate Law and Justice meetings, as well as serving as board member for the Second Amendment Foundation. Then there are the 180,000 citizens using our free 1639 and 1143 classes for free, saving between $5,000,000 and $10,000,000 that we pay for out of pocket.

No offense taken, but clarifying the record without using all caps. We've been doing a little something for the 2A in Washington.

Yes you've been doing a lot, I said earlier both you and gators were.

 

[Gunbuggy]

No one said you weren't doing anything. Just stated you talked sheit on a fellow ally in this fight against communism an that they risked more to get the fight started. Don't take offense because people are just stating facts. Wally is risking it all to win for us. You guys use lawyers an money as a risk without possible prosecution in the criminal side. Without the later you have no standing to get in front of a federal court that isn't rigged by Ferguson. Again no need to get offended you guys have taken different approaches to different bills. This approach wally is taking however seems to be the only one that's winning.

This

 

[Dungannon]

@Gunbuggy @Val1884
You both make this sound pretty personal. Your trashing talking Sporting Systems is hugely ironic. Sporting Systems has put more on the line, for a longer time, in a more public way, while working hand-in-glove with other 2A lawyers and organizations, than any other gun store in Washington that I'm aware of. And in the long run, I'll think their approach will be more productive and lasting. Personal opinion, of course.

 

[Gunbuggy]

@Gunbuggy @Val1884
You both make this sound pretty personal. Your trashing talking Sporting Systems is hugely ironic. Sporting Systems has put more on the line, for a longer time, in a more public way, while working hand-in-glove with other 2A lawyers and organizations, than any other gun store in Washington that I'm aware of. And in the long run, I'll think their approach will be more productive and lasting. Personal opinion, of course.

Not trash talking. Not taking it personal. I've spent about an equal amount of time in each of those shops. I was simply just telling the truth of the matter.

 

[Val1884]

@Gunbuggy @Val1884
You both make this sound pretty personal. Your trashing talking Sporting Systems is hugely ironic. Sporting Systems has put more on the line, for a longer time, in a more public way, while working hand-in-glove with other 2A lawyers and organizations, than any other gun store in Washington that I'm aware of. And in the long run, I'll think their approach will be more productive and lasting. Personal opinion, of course.

I must be too used to talking to men like wally because nothing either of us said is trash talking? No one has put down sporting systems or what they are doing. Some of you got them up on such a golden pedestal that anything not glorifying them as the Almighty gun shop is an insult.. hilarious. Like has been stated before. Now put on reading glasses and sound it out if you struggle.. Sporting systems has a different approach to this. More low key an the risk is only financially.. saying that. No wins yet..yes yet. Wally has risked everything financially an on a criminal court side as Bob was pushing..so far looking like a possible win. Sometimes you gotta take the black eye to win a fight. Again for those that struggle with reading comprehension. NO one has put down sporting systems or said they don't do anything. And I was in both shops Alot when they first started an were little stores with about as much for sale as a average collection. Both have grown greatly because both understand the needs of the people.

 

[Dungannon]

Not trash talking. Not taking it personal. I've spent about an equal amount of time in each of those shops. I was simply just telling the truth of the matter.

Okay. Does that mean you're now going to give this a rest, since Sporting Systems has explained their way of business and contribution to fighting the good fight?

 

[Gunbuggy]

Okay. Does that mean you're now going to give this a rest, since Sporting Systems has explained their way of business and contribution to fighting the good fight?

Aren't you the one who called out what I said? I had already "given it a rest" after my initial comment, and you restarted the convo by incorrectly accusing me of bad mouthing sporting systems.

 

[FATAL125]

How about we agree to agree that there is more than one way to skin a cat...

I'm not interested in seeing this thread locked because its divisive.

Reading through the comments, I dont see anyone saying that SS isn't doing their share and fighting.

What I am seeing in the comments, are some people who seem to be in a similar place as myself, where we see the writing on the wall a little different.

Gators gave a huge middle finger to our local tyrants and were willing to accept the outcome. Personally, I believe we need more of that kinda stand up and fight right now as opposed to the court systems which are easily bought and swayed and take decades to see any potential results.

I absolutely appreciate everything SS has and is doing. However, as our 2A rights specifically in WA, continue to dissolve, I'm not seeing the difference all these lawsuits and such are making.

Gators made a wave... a big one. This is the call to action I think we need now more than we have in say the last 250 years... give or take.

Anyhow, take or leave it. MY opinion, we need more Gators at this point in time. As a side note... I'd be curious to know if SS is helping Gators in all this. Financially or otherwise.

 

[Sporting Systems]

No one said you weren't doing anything. Just stated you talked sheit on a fellow ally in this fight against communism an that they risked more to get the fight started. Don't take offense because people are just stating facts. Wally is risking it all to win for us. You guys use lawyers an money as a risk without possible prosecution in the criminal side. Without the later you have no standing to get in front of a federal court that isn't rigged by Ferguson. Again no need to get offended you guys have taken different approaches to different bills. This approach wally is taking however seems to be the only one that's winning.

Didn't talk disparagingly, different approach to find standing, please don't put words in my mouth. Plenty of lawyers and money still involved in all actions, none of this happens without them. We have 4 cases pending in the 9th federal court of appeals, some since 2018...all moving at the speed of the federal courts, where Mr Ferguson has zero influence. I'd say we're quite far along and will likely have a federal court decision on our enjoined challenges of Duncan v Bonta and Miller v Bonta. Mitchell v Atkins is back in the 9th appeals court again, after being remanded back to the Western district out of Tacoma after Bruen, that case was filed in 2018 and will likely see conclusion in 2025. Our cases are all advancing, and are all being enjoined with other similar cases that are ahead of the Washington challenges.

 

[fredball]

So has the injunction been passed yet or still waiting?

 

[Gunbuggy]

So has the injunction been passed yet or still waiting?

Judge wants 2 weeks to make his decision on gators case

 

[Sporting Systems]

Anyhow, take or leave it. MY opinion, we need more Gators at this point in time. As a side note... I'd be curious to know if SS is helping Gators in all this. Financially or otherwise.

The half million dollars we're out of pocket and the 12-14 months of full time labor donated to the 2A fight isn't enough?

But yes, we have contributed to SMF financially, as well as sharing their messaging broadly across all platforms. There is also the free i-1639 and HB1143 class that benefits EVERY DEALER in Washington state, by providing a simple, quick and free path to getting buyers approved to make purchases in their store and it cost those FFL's nothing. No financial benefit to our shop at all for helping all 1442 FFLs in WA sell firearms. I'd say we gave pretty good at the office.

I'm over this. Came to correct and explain how lawsuits progress, behind the scenes inside baseball as to how plaintiffs makes decision about their cases and how they conduct business. Lots of poor information is being shared, assumed or otherwise. I'll retreat into the background and stay away from the mudslinging that serves absolutely no purpose whatsoever. I can rest easily, knowing what we've done and are doing.

 

[FATAL125]

The half million dollars we're out of pocket and the 12-14 months of full time labor donated to the 2A fight isn't enough?

Whoa... Never said it wasn't enough. Was a simple question as to whether you made your presence known in these situations or not.

If you read my entire post and didn't just quote the bit that made you feel attacked (by the way, feelings aren't facts) you would see I was actually and very intentionally not attacking or being divisive.

But yes, we have contributed to SMF financially, as well as sharing their messaging broadly across all platforms. There is also the free i-1639 and HB1143 class that benefits EVERY DEALER in Washington state, by providing a simple, quick and free path to getting buyers approved to make purchases in their store and it cost those FFL's nothing. No financial benefit to our shop at all for helping all 1442 FFLs in WA sell firearms. I'd say we gave pretty good at the office.

I'm over this. Came to correct and explain how lawsuits progress, behind the scenes inside baseball as to how plaintiffs makes decision about their cases and how they conduct business. Lots of poor information is being shared, assumed or otherwise. I'll retreat into the background and stay away from the mudslinging that serves absolutely no purpose whatsoever. I can rest easily, knowing what we've done and are doing.

As for the rest of this, I'm well aware of what SS has done and is doing. I'm aware and can appreciate the time and money and energy that goes into fighting legal battles.

I'll end with this... make sure when you call someone out you're aware of their intentions. I never called you out or spoke ill of you or "slung mud". I asked a simple question with no ulterior motives. I have and will continue to support SS. Please don't give me a reason not to...

 

[Val1884]

Some folks here need to go back an brush up on reading comprehension..holy crap. Taking facts an questions way too personally. Anyway back to the elephant in the room... support your local firearms dealer an continue the fight against communism.

 

[Old Dog]

Gators gave a huge middle finger to our local tyrants and were willing to accept the outcome. Personally, I believe we need more of that kinda stand up and fight right now as opposed to the court systems which are easily bought and swayed and take decades to see any potential results.

Even if one is in the right, giving up one's business, livelihood and complete support for one's family to stand on principle in a case that may take years to resolve -- and likely, on this issue, in this state, not in one's favor -- is easy to cheer from the sidelines, but in practice, doesn't always work.

The other side has far more billionaire donors to keep its supporters fed and their kids sent to Evergreen College or Harvard, our side, not so much.

 

[FATAL125]

Even if one is in the right, giving up one's business, livelihood and complete support for one's family to stand on principle in a case that may take years to resolve -- and likely, on this issue, in this state, not in one's favor -- is easy to cheer from the sidelines, but in practice, doesn't always work.

The other side has far more billionaire donors to keep its supporters fed and their kids sent to Evergreen College or Harvard, our side, not so much.

And that's where you and I differ...

For the record, so no one gets offended, the following is my opinion. As such, if you disagree, that's totally and completely fine with me.

If it wasn't for risking EVERYTHING we wouldn't be where we are now. Meaning, if it wasn't for the men who stood up and fought to their death, we wouldn't have any of the freedoms were trying to hold onto now. I wish more people had a 16th century mindset, because heaven knows we need it.

And know this, I'm no keyboard warrior. I'm ready, willing and able to risk life and limb to right the ship. My family knows this and understands it. Nothing good comes without sacrifice and sometimes that sacrifice is more than just monetary. I've stated this multiple times and will continue to do so until such time more brothers and sisters realize this may be our last option.

"That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness."

 

[Old Dog]

Wow, great oration.

Risking everything? Over selling a few more rounds in pistol and rifle magazines, which those that believe they require, already possess. And in a fight in which, hopefully, SCOTUS will have our backs in the next couple of years, anyway (before any of the standard capacity mags we all stocked up on ever wear out).

This is hardly the same as William Wallace standing up to King William I, or the citizens of the Lexington militia facing down the Redcoats, or some brave settlers protecting their women against the raiding Comanches in the mid-1800s...

While I'm a true believer in the concepts of "death by a thousand cuts," "the slippery slope syndrome," and the parable of the frog in the pot with the burner getting slowly turned up.... a little perspective must be maintained. In a fight in which the fix is in, risking more than one's opponent is simply short-sighted at best, stupid at worst. Sporting Systems has realized that we need to play the long game, and unfortunately, play by the already established rules.

I doubt any of us here believe in magazine capacity restrictions (nor any of the other heinous, draconian laws that the morons in our legislature have foisted upon us since 2014).

And know this, I'm no keyboard warrior. I'm ready, willing and able to risk life and limb to right the ship.

So, to be clear: just how are you risking life and limb in the battle to be able to buy standard capacity firearms magazines in the future in Washington state?

 

[GrayGoose]

 

[Knobgoblin]

Wow.