Oregon Resources to Stop Initiative Petition 43

[MooThulhu]

Spent my monthly ammo budget joining up with OFF today, I figure 1 range trip is nothing compared to whats at stake here. Heck, out of 4 guns and 40-50 magazines I'm pretty sure I only have one thats a 10 rounder, the rest are "scary high capacity clipazines" so if this passes I'll be skipping all my range trips!

What both the wife and I are wondering is this whole denial of oral arguments thing ? Is this something that happens often ? As for the consolidation have the consolidated them because everyones challenge is basically the same challenge or is this just more activist judge baloney?

This entire situation has me pretty down. My in laws are all planning on moving, the wife wants to as well. They say the state is already lost but I happen to like it here and If freedom loving American's just keep moving as the anti's chase us from state to state we eventually will have nowhere left to go. Maybe I feel this way because I left Colorado in part because of their regular capacity magazine ban.
I'm sure eventually these people who are stripping people of rights and creating laws based on feelings instead of facts will ruin Oregon and start filtering into Alaska, Idaho, Wyoming, the Dakota's and Montana. They might not ruin those states in my lifetime and while I'm not likely to have children I still want the best possible future for my country and all its states. Anyways sorry for the rant I just am feeling pretty defeated.

 

[E4mafia]

Spent my monthly ammo budget joining up with OFF today, I figure 1 range trip is nothing compared to whats at stake here. Heck, out of 4 guns and 40-50 magazines I'm pretty sure I only have one thats a 10 rounder, the rest are "scary high capacity clipazines" so if this passes I'll be skipping all my range trips!

What both the wife and I are wondering is this whole denial of oral arguments thing ? Is this something that happens often ? As for the consolidation have the consolidated them because everyones challenge is basically the same challenge or is this just more activist judge baloney?

This entire situation has me pretty down. My in laws are all planning on moving, the wife wants to as well. They say the state is already lost but I happen to like it here and If freedom loving American's just keep moving as the anti's chase us from state to state we eventually will have nowhere left to go. Maybe I feel this way because I left Colorado in part because of their regular capacity magazine ban.
I'm sure eventually these people who are stripping people of rights and creating laws based on feelings instead of facts will ruin Oregon and start filtering into Alaska, Idaho, Wyoming, the Dakota's and Montana. They might not ruin those states in my lifetime and while I'm not likely to have children I still want the best possible future for my country and all its states. Anyways sorry for the rant I just am feeling pretty defeated.

Its all good. Im sure everyone here feels the same. But you bring up a good point. If we keep running all we do is give up ground and political ground to increase the blue super majority voting apparatus.

If they cant take us in polls theyll surely try to chase us out and then set up shop to further the cause where we left which in turn guarantees more organic blue votes.

Like running from a fire and not calling the fire department on it. The flames will continue envelope all it touches. That is the scariest part to me truth be told.

 

[daiello91]

At some point you have to decide you're willing to die fighting for the hill (figuratively speaking).

That's why I do what I do.

 

[Lexdiesel]

Don't know if this is of any interest but, scouring around I found some other info about our OPFOR leader (Mark Knutson)

Northwest Health Foundation Names Michael Alexander, William Thorndike to Board; Appoints Reverend W.J. Mark Knutson Chair | The Lund Report

Sounds like knutson is the influence and has a couple buddies in some high places with the Northwest Health Foundation - which is very progressive in its approach and policies.

Home

Granted, this is from back in 2014 but that is not too terribly long ago to say old friends couldn't be of assistance.

Interesting. Checking the FB page of the church group Knutson holds it seems like there is quite the backlash even from religious goers who formerly attended the church stating that it went from religious worship to political platform....

His closing letter from leaving NHF fits the perfect image for his actions
A Letter from Outgoing Board Chair Rev. W.J. Mark Knutson

Good read here:

Churches and Political Lobbying Activities - Freedom From Religion Foundation

According to that definition the churches cannot hold signing events at said church.

 

[NW Backpacker]

Spent my monthly ammo budget joining up with OFF today, I figure 1 range trip is nothing compared to whats at stake here. Heck, out of 4 guns and 40-50 magazines I'm pretty sure I only have one thats a 10 rounder, the rest are "scary high capacity clipazines" so if this passes I'll be skipping all my range trips!

What both the wife and I are wondering is this whole denial of oral arguments thing ? Is this something that happens often ? As for the consolidation have the consolidated them because everyones challenge is basically the same challenge or is this just more activist judge baloney?

This entire situation has me pretty down. My in laws are all planning on moving, the wife wants to as well. They say the state is already lost but I happen to like it here and If freedom loving American's just keep moving as the anti's chase us from state to state we eventually will have nowhere left to go. Maybe I feel this way because I left Colorado in part because of their regular capacity magazine ban.
I'm sure eventually these people who are stripping people of rights and creating laws based on feelings instead of facts will ruin Oregon and start filtering into Alaska, Idaho, Wyoming, the Dakota's and Montana. They might not ruin those states in my lifetime and while I'm not likely to have children I still want the best possible future for my country and all its states. Anyways sorry for the rant I just am feeling pretty defeated.

I'm thinking of selling and moving also. If IP43 becomes law we'll only have until ~ May 1, 2019 to register/get background checks before we become felons. AND consider this: there is no provision in IP43 for transporting your firearms out of state as you move EVEN IF you do register them! The intent seems to be that the state now owns them, you just rent them by paying fees, etc.

Perhaps those who move could all get together, rent an apartment in a border town, register to vote there, get their mail-in ballots, and vote in the November Oregon election before they officially "move" into their new state and register to vote in the new state in 2019. That way your vote would still help Oregonians on IP43.

In fact, we could invite all the gun owners in Idaho, Nevada, California to do the same IF they would not be missing any important November votes in their home states.

EDIT - this would be akin to the D practice of bussing in "voters" to swing states during elections.

 

[nammac]

Has OFF filed a similar object with the Oregon Supreme Court? I'm not seeing anything on their site.

Yes, they have, email came out today:

06.08.18
Yesterday OFF attorneys filed two challenges to the ballot title for IP43, the "inter-hate" gun confiscation measure.

Measure 43 would ban the purchase, sale or transfer of most modern rifles and shotguns, countless handguns and even some lever action rifles.

Owners of the firearms would be required to submit to another background check to keep them, "register" or "reregister" them with the State Police and store them in a manner approved by OSP.

Magazines capable of holding more than 10 rounds would also be prohibited from purchase, sale or transfer and these too would have to be "registered" with the police.

Once "registered" the firearms and magazines cited in the measure would only be allowed to be used at approved ranges. You could not hunt or sport shoot with them and you could not use them for self defense outside the home.

Persons moving into the state with banned firearms or magazines would have to surrender them to the state. There would be no provision for "registration" only confiscation.

The penalty for possessing an unregistered firearm or magazine would be a felony punishable by 10 years in prison and fines of $250,000.00.

According to the Oregonian, the petitioners "... have leaders of Jewish congregations, black churches, liberal-leaning Protestant denominations and Islamic mosques on board."

The Oregonian also reports: "The Oregon Supreme Court can also expedite the process at the justices' discretion by shortening response deadlines or bypassing oral arguments, given that the signature deadline is near."

Previous reviews of ballot titles have taken from 49 to 150 days. But the Supreme Court has already agreed to a time table for the proceedings that favors the petitioners and hurts our side.
The petitioners have until July 6th to gather over 88,000 signatures.
As you know, these essential legal battles are expensive. And we are not done yet. IP 43 is only one of two right's-smashing anti-gun measures filed for the 2018 election. IP 44would require that any firearm you own be locked and inaccessible for self defense unless you were actually carrying it.
It would hold you responsible for any damage done with one of your firearms for five years if your gun was stolen and you could not prove it had a "cable" or "trigger" lock on it.

This is turning into a very ugly year for Oregonians who dare to exercise their God-given, constitutional rights. But we have no choice but to face down the hateful bigots who would use a mob to deny you a fundamental liberty.

The other side has billionaires on their side. All we have is you.
Please consider contributing to our efforts to keep Oregon safe and free.

 

[G0nefishin]

Donated to off today it's not much but figure it'll help.

 

[Lonnie217]

Not much... some other dolt, whom I won't name, suggested I didn't know what I was talking about as far as case consolidation. So here we have what I was saying.... the Court told the AG to CONSOLIDATE the cases by the 18th. In otherwords, all the filings get lumped into one court date, so the "avalanche of paper work" theory, doesn't work. Duh... the petitioners (objectors to the ballot) have until 6/21 to file their responses. Once the response is filed, they will set a date to hear oral arguments. Then they will issue a ruling.. will they issue a bench ruling? MOST likely not. Even though they have all reviewed the file on Friday. (it gets passed around and the justices make their own personal notes on it, once it gets to oral arguments, the justices really know, most likely, how they are going to rule). If you attend the hearing, which I plan to, you can listen to the judges ask questions of the respondents and the state, generally, if you know how to read between the lines, you can hear and reduce to conclusion, exactly how they will rule. So expect a ruling within 5 days of the oral arguments, if they take oral arguments. How do I know this? been there done that. I have case law in Oregon that went to the Supreme Court and made Oregon Law. I've seen it referenced in other trials.

 

[Lonnie217]

Just remember the court ruling doesn't make law, unfortunately voters do. No vote has been taken, no vote this year will be taken. Hopefully in the next two years, this will calm down and not come up again.

Best thing we can do is support changes in mental health programs, (which the democrats and kate brown do not support), improvements on school security and threat assessment taken seriously for a change. Its kids shooting kids. Lets fix or work on that, not punishing law abiding citizens.

 

[Lonnie217]

Everyone needs to join the OOC. All Oregonians need to unite and conquer. Oregon Outdoor Council | Restoring Hunters Rights In Oregon

any of them would help, I agree. But more than that, pony up some $$ to shut this sh*t down. Educating people is #1. Gosh, if we could do with the Oregon ballot initiative process, that would be helpful. I hate to see grocery store moms making laws that make you a felon, when you aren't. geesh!!!

 

[SUPER X]

Yes, they have, email came out today:

06.08.18
Yesterday OFF attorneys filed two challenges to the ballot title for IP43, the "inter-hate" gun confiscation measure.

Measure 43 would ban the purchase, sale or transfer of most modern rifles and shotguns, countless handguns and even some lever action rifles.

Owners of the firearms would be required to submit to another background check to keep them, "register" or "reregister" them with the State Police and store them in a manner approved by OSP.

Magazines capable of holding more than 10 rounds would also be prohibited from purchase, sale or transfer and these too would have to be "registered" with the police.

Once "registered" the firearms and magazines cited in the measure would only be allowed to be used at approved ranges. You could not hunt or sport shoot with them and you could not use them for self defense outside the home.

Persons moving into the state with banned firearms or magazines would have to surrender them to the state. There would be no provision for "registration" only confiscation.

The penalty for possessing an unregistered firearm or magazine would be a felony punishable by 10 years in prison and fines of $250,000.00.

According to the Oregonian, the petitioners "... have leaders of Jewish congregations, black churches, liberal-leaning Protestant denominations and Islamic mosques on board."

The Oregonian also reports: "The Oregon Supreme Court can also expedite the process at the justices' discretion by shortening response deadlines or bypassing oral arguments, given that the signature deadline is near."

Previous reviews of ballot titles have taken from 49 to 150 days. But the Supreme Court has already agreed to a time table for the proceedings that favors the petitioners and hurts our side.
The petitioners have until July 6th to gather over 88,000 signatures.
As you know, these essential legal battles are expensive. And we are not done yet. IP 43 is only one of two right's-smashing anti-gun measures filed for the 2018 election. IP 44would require that any firearm you own be locked and inaccessible for self defense unless you were actually carrying it.
It would hold you responsible for any damage done with one of your firearms for five years if your gun was stolen and you could not prove it had a "cable" or "trigger" lock on it.

This is turning into a very ugly year for Oregonians who dare to exercise their God-given, constitutional rights. But we have no choice but to face down the hateful bigots who would use a mob to deny you a fundamental liberty.

The other side has billionaires on their side. All we have is you.
Please consider contributing to our efforts to keep Oregon safe and free.

HERE IS THE AGENDA LIKE THEY ARE RECEIVING SPECIAL TREATMENT BY SPEEDING UP THE PROCESS .




This week has been very good for IP 43, the Lift Every Voice Campaign! We have successfully passed major milestones on our way to ban assault weapons and high-capacity magazines!

But, before we get to the details, let's answer everyone's top question: when can we begin to gather signatures for IP 43? Probably not until late June at the earliest. We cannot begin to gather signatures for IP 43 until we receive permission from the Oregon Supreme Court.

Here's the good news from this week:

• Oregon's Attorney General Ellen Rosenblum issued a certified ballot title that Ceasefire Oregon and IP 43 find fair and accurate. The certified ballot title is, "Prohibits 'assault weapons' (defined), 'large capacity magazines' (defined), unless registered. Criminal penalties."
• The opposition, including the National Rifle Association, only filed five challenges to the ballot title. (Only challenges to the ballot title, not the content of the petition, can be made.) Ceasefire Oregon was prepared for more.
• The best news is that the Oregon Supreme Court announced they will speed up the process to review the legal challenges to IP 43. The court will combine the five challenges into one and tighten the timeline which will give us a bit more time to gather signatures.
• That means IP 43 has a strong, realistic chance to collect the necessary signatures to be on the November 2018 ballot!

Is the time line still short? Yes!

Are we organized and ready? Absolutely!

What can YOU do to help?

• Talk to your friends and family NOW about IP 43. Ask them to be ready to sign the petition. You can read all about IP 43 on our website.
• Attend a meeting to learn how to gather signatures so you can be ready when the Oregon Supreme Court gives us the green light. (See below.)
• Sign up at the Lift Every Voice Oregon website to volunteer to host a training session, deliver petitions in your area or throughout Oregon, help in the Portland office, or donate!

Where are the trainings for signature gatherers?

June 11, 7-8 PM, Portland, Augustana Lutheran Church, 2710 NE 14th Ave. (corner of NE Knott and NE 15th Ave). Emphasis on youth involvement.

June 12, 7-8 PM, Portland, Westminster Presbyterian, 1624 NE Hancock.

June 13, 7-8 PM, Salem, St. Mark's Lutheran Church, 790 Marion St N.E.

June 14, 7-8 PM, Eugene, First Christian Church, 1166 Oak St.

June 19, 7-8 PM, Portland, Trinity Episcopal Cathedral, 147 NW 19th Ave.

June 20, 7-8 PM, Bend, Trinity Episcopal Church, 469 NW Wall St.

June 21, 7-8 PM, Lake Oswego, Christ Church Episcopal Parish, 1060 Chandler Rd.

June 23, 5-6 PM, Ashland, Rogue Valley Unitarian Universalist Fellowship, 87 Fourth Street.

June 28, Roseburg, location and time TBA

Thank you for helping us in this truly historic event! We still might run out of time but we now have a strong, fighting chance to beat the deadline--and we can do it with your help!

Ceasefire Oregon is proud and excited to partner with the Lift Every Voice (LEVO) Campaign in this effort to ban weapons of war. Penny Okamoto, our executive director, is a member of LEVO's steering committee and spearheading Ceasefire Oregon's work as well. We are thrilled to be part of this historic movement!

Be with us when it happens!!

With peace and love,

Penny, Joanne, and the entre Ceasefire Oregon Team

Make a difference today
Your support enables Ceasefire Oregon to continue working toward a stronger, safer Oregon for all of us.

 

[Lonnie217]

According to that definition the churches cannot hold signing events at said church.

the FHEAD is not a church, any of those greek orthodox steeple churches in Portland have alot of bark but not bite and no parishioners. I got approached to sign a ballot inititive last week on the University of Oregon campus and it was quite an interesting conversation asking her why I should sign what she wanted. She had no answers and I signed nothing, even though she suggested I should sign it and let the voters work it out. My response... don't we have enough laws? do we need more? The inititive process is out of control... once we got to that, she was disinterested in me, off to the next person.. (BTW, she only had 3 signatures for one hours work.) I walked away laughing. (one of the ballot measures she proposed was the voters pamphlet should rate candidates on a 5 star rating... WTF here, freakity freak, are you kidding me, the internet bullsh't has gone over the water falls... now we vote on a google 5 star rating.....? I was dumbfounded.

 

[E4mafia]

Local gun lobby fails miserably. – Ceasefire Oregon

Interesting taunt article with a pinch of smug.

Heres the polling they use as a source for Americans supporting gun bans by 61%

QU Poll Release Detail

And finally, their legislation of plans both state and federal.

Legislation – Ceasefire Oregon

Oh yeah, their master plan...

Our Plan – Ceasefire Oregon

Daily reminder to actually get out and vote and stop waiting to be replaced each year/session/cycle/day/month/etc

-----
This RDD telephone survey was conducted from February 16 – 19, 2018 throughout the nation. Responses are reported for 1,249 self-identified registered voters with a margin of sampling error of +/- 3.4 percentage points, including the design effect. Margins of sampling error for subgroups are available upon request. Surveys are conducted in English or Spanish dependent on respondent preference with live interviewers calling landlines and cell phones. All data was collected and tabulated by the Quinnipiac University Poll. PARTY IDENTIFICATION QUESTION WORDING - Generally speaking, do you consider yourself a Republican, a Democrat, an Independent, or what? REGISTERED VOTERS PARTY IDENTIFICATION Republican 22% Democrat 33 Independent 39 Other/DK/NA 6
------

So 3 days
Nation wide
1249 SELF IDENTIFIED REGISTERED VOTERS
COLD CALLING!!!

So think about this, in just 3 days they were able to contact a handful of people in each state to form an opinion via cold calling. A HANDFUL OF PEOPLE ACROSS THE ENTIRE UNITED STATES WERE COLD CALLED AND USED AS VALID SUPPORT THAT 61% WANT TO BAN GUNS IN THE USA.

My sides are in orbit right now, send help.

Damn son thats some real good estimates to build off of for maybe say an independent poll and not say like election exiting polls which are actually nation wide.

We totally weren't just calling all of our pals across a network which is obviously bias guys we swear!!!

 

[Lonnie217]

Eugene is my closest place... I know First Christian Church reasonably well, just from reading the garbage that gets put out on the news.. they like gay marriage. And so, I just might mention again... they have no parishioners, the liberal bubblegum they preach people don't want to hear and then be asked to dump money in their collection plate. I don't see much coming out of it here. And lets remember, children are doing the collecting of signatures.. how long can their undeveloped brains stay engaged on this? that that long.

 

[NW Backpacker]

Just remember the court ruling doesn't make law, unfortunately voters do. No vote has been taken, no vote this year will be taken. Hopefully in the next two years, this will calm down and not come up again.

Best thing we can do is support changes in mental health programs, (which the democrats and kate brown do not support), improvements on school security and threat assessment taken seriously for a change. Its kids shooting kids. Lets fix or work on that, not punishing law abiding citizens.

I hope you are correct that there will be no vote this year, but that is not what is being reported in the news. In the Sunday Oregonian today, page A6, is an article titled: "Gun-control initiative backers cheer decision" by Hillary Borrud. Excerpts:

"But on Friday, the Supreme Court denied their requests for oral arguments - a decision that will likely speed up the court's review of the ballot title......."

"Members of one of the groups asking the court to modify the ballot title referred a request for comment to their lawyer Shawn Lindsay, who said in his experience the Supreme Court "never has oral arguments on these petitions." Lindsay declined to comment further."

Kristina Edmunson,communications director for Rosenblum, "... also said the court rarely hears oral arguments on ballot title appeals.....".

I hope they don't get their signatures.

 

[brenty]

would it be legal for us to like print up some kind of informational flyer and go door to door, hand them out at the signature training locations ect..? Like ATLEAST scoop up the small amount of critical thinkers that are still left out there?

 

[Ralgha]

would it be legal for us to like print up some kind of informational flyer and go door to door, hand them out at the signature training locations ect..? Like ATLEAST scoop up the small amount of critical thinkers that are still left out there?

Of course it's legal to do that, first amendment baby!

 

[brenty]

Of course it's legal to do that, first amendment baby!

Just need some more people on board with the Idea. Do you think its something people on here might get behind?

 

[daiello91]

Just need some more people on board with the Idea. Do you think its something people on here might get behind?

If it makes the ballot, I'd say that would be a worthy way to spend time. However, in this case, they're going to/inviting supporters to specific locations for "signing parties". It would be more advantageous for our side to attend and documenting or video tape the signature gathering process. As there are very specific rules that will likely be broken due to their short time frame and mass gathering process.

 

[brenty]

If it makes the ballot, I'd say that would be a worthy way to spend time. However, in this case, they're going to/inviting supporters to specific locations for "signing parties". It would be more advantageous for our side to attend and documenting or video tape the signature gathering process. As there are very specific rules that will likely be broken due to their short time frame and mass gathering process.

Gotcha. Good thinking. Do you think we might be removed by the local police if we were to be there filming?