Rancher/Sheriff Idaho shooting

[mjbskwim]

According to a large cal friend that's known him his whole life, there's been tensions building between the cops and the locals for a while.

Maybe it's the cops getting a little too full of themselves up there?

 

[Member 5605]

According to a large cal friend that's known him his whole life, there's been tensions building between the cops and the locals for a while.

Time for them to show force...?

 

[Caveman Jim]

Time for them to show force...?

Oath keepers?

 

[Member 5605]

Oath keepers?

It (my comment) was a jab at how the police would use the death of one to assert their force/dominance. Execute one to keep others pacified.

While I personally don't believe that would be the case, it was more than likely emotions running high and a perfect bubblegumstorm of events.

 

[Caveman Jim]

I hope that LE there are not seriouslying portraying a dominant stance over citizens, it could erupt a strong emotional resistance among the populous.

 

[No_Regerts]

It (my comment) was a jab at how the police would use the death of one to assert their force/dominance. Execute one to keep others pacified.

While I personally don't believe that would be the case, it was more than likely emotions running high and a perfect bubblegumstorm of events.

The hell that occurs after a use of deadly force isnt worth going through to prove a point.

 

[Member 5605]

The hell that occurs after a use of deadly force isnt worth going through to prove a point.

Aye, I was merely mentioning that as some wild wackos may try to assert that into the gray area after any shooting. Keep safe out there No_Regerts when you are doing your deeds.

 

[No_Regerts]

Aye, I was merely mentioning that as some wild wackos may try to assert that into the gray area after any shooting. Keep safe out there No_Regerts when you are doing your deeds.

Dirty deeds done real cheap

 

[Oregonhunter5]

This area is rural. And in my experience those types of areas support the law.
This situation seems to be the type that hits a show like dateline nbc.
I think overall, the people that live in areas like this, are just not happy with any government entity. There fed up.
But that doesn't mean the cops did something no wrong.

 

[No_Regerts]

Generally, sheriffs offices are a lot closer knit with the community, if anything because the sheriff is an elected official.

 

[Charliehorse]

"Unless you're an arrogant prominent rancher....Again speculation, but who else would pull a gun on cops over a bubbleguming bull?"

My speculation would be that he showed up with a rifle fully expecting he'd have to put down a suffering, badly injured bull. Then. things went off the rails when it didn't need to be put down due to its injuries and there was a disagreement over the need to shoot it as a threat, and they wouldn't let him near to see if a familiar person would maybe calm it. Given the propensity for some cops to shoot a barking dog behind a fence as a threat, I wonder how much of a threat it actually was?

Whatever the final determination, my assumption wouldn't be to call the deceased man arrogant simply because he was a prominent rancher any more than I'd assume the cops to be arrogant because they wear uniforms. Perhaps if they had allowed the experienced stockman to try to remove the threat, things would have turned out better.

What I do know is that fear can make otherwise reasonable people real stupid real fast, and I am fairly certain that those cops were a whole lot more afraid of that injured bull than the rancher was.

Whatever the end story, my prayers go out to his family, friends, and to his wife in the hospital.

AGREE 100%

I live in open range, and although the liability lies upon the driver, if the owner knows, they certainly would want to put their animal down and stop any further turmoil. Or save it if they can. Cops on scene should have taken that into the predominant consideration! The owner was NOT there to shoot the killer drivers...

Just had to put one of my stallions down this afternoon - so ask me how I KNOW about caring for your stock regardless of highway liability. Dammit! Barkeep! (which is me at home with the car keys locked up)... another tequila shooter please!

Naturally, city people have no freaking clue because for them the outdoors happens on a tv screen. Out here, it's dam real! Watching an animal suffer. Having to suck it up and be "courageous and strong" (Josh1.6).

The other thing to consider is that the 'new' local deputies and city police are often from big city areas these days trying to escape the mayhem. But they bring part of that with them. (And some seem to like the sound of their gun.) My local town was invaded by non-local, shaved head glove wearing skin-head looking police many years back. They aren't the same as your old neighbors who used to be on the squad that knew many local family names.

Not assuming, not accusing, just sayin...

Barkeep! (which is me with the car keys locked up)... another tequila shooter please!


Dammit. I hate putting one of my horses down.

Drinks to Toby!

Yes, prayers to his family as well as for the community.

 

[No_Regerts]

Open range laws have always been interesting to me. In Idaho, the liability goes to the driver for damages and there is no duty to fence livestock away from roads. It seems counterintuitive to me. It seems that if you allow an animal to wander around, you should be liable for what happens if it wanders onto public domain and is hit by a car.

I believe Montana has changed its laws to shift liability to the owner of the livestock.

 

[Brutus57]

Open range predates the car. And there are signs.....A driver is responsible for the safe operation of his vehicle and is expected to be smarter than a dumb animal. Rancher or LEO at fault or just bad juju, someone's relative or friend dead and a loss of trust on both sides.

Brutus Out

 

[Sgt Nambu]

I would like to learn a lot more about the incident!

Charliehorse, very sorry to hear about your stallion! I'm sure it hurts something terrible! I know the feeling.

 

[Charliehorse]

Sorry friends. Rough night.

 

[The Heretic]

One of my earliest memories was of my father asking a stranger for a gun to put a dog out of its misery after he had hit it with his car when it ran across the road in front of the car. This was in the city. Someone came up with a shotgun and my dad did his duty. The owner could not be found.

People who let their pets wander around loose can expect this.

As for livestock. Well, I've always lived in farm land where we had our livestock penned up and farmers were responsible for the livestock if it got loose.

I've been through open range areas, eastern OR and WA and Montana, and was careful around livestock - just like you are careful when going through an area where there is deer (almost hit a buck Monday coming down off the mountain - it was a close thing).

 

[RVTECH]

We may never know but had the rancher kept his 'head' and let it all play out without saying a word he MIGHT have been on good grounds legally for a BIG lawsuit against the county.

 

[mjbskwim]

The other thing to consider is that the 'new' local deputies and city police are often from big city areas these days trying to escape the mayhem. But they bring part of that with them. (And some seem to like the sound of their gun.) My local town was invaded by non-local, shaved head glove wearing skin-head looking police many years back. They aren't the same as your old neighbors who used to be on the squad that knew many local family names.

I was talking about this with a local business man yesterday. Could be a very expensive animal that he could have taken a couple seconds to shoo away from the accident and he had to deal with a city cop who lateraled over? Knew nothing about them thar cow things?
And no regrets,hopefully the shooter hasn't started a bigger problem than he can handle.
I would guess he'll be a nervous Nelly patrolling around for a while

 

[Brutus57]

It would be nice to know more details. Myself Having served two weeks on a shooting inquest to see whether or not the officer was justified in killing a kidnapper lots of things in play. Lots of LEOS seem ready to shoot these days but then that may just be because of the internet every incident gets played up. Crappy day all round... and rifles can be pretty intimidating removing the "safety margin" of a ballistic vest.

Brutus Out

 

[No_Regerts]

Sorry friends. Rough night.

I was talking about this with a local business man yesterday. Could be a very expensive animal that he could have taken a couple seconds to shoo away from the accident and he had to deal with a city cop who lateraled over? Knew nothing about them thar cow things?
And no regrets,hopefully the shooter hasn't started a bigger problem than he can handle.
I would guess he'll be a nervous Nelly patrolling around for a while

I know if it were my agency, it would be a bit before this whole thing cleared up and they could be put back on duty. Several rounds with investigators and lawyers, psychological evaluations, etc. If there is enough outcry from the town, and its a small town you live in, you and your family can be made to be pretty uncomforable.

Seems like by the time the whole thing is over and the officer is back on duty, things go to new normal.