Question..........Who here pracrices double taps?

[Stomper]

You can add LE in there as well...

Yeabut, they're SUPPOSED to shoot bad guys in the leg…..

 

[WillametteWill]

Double taps are for competition, 3-5 rounds minimum standard response.

I have had this, ahem, debate, with some competition folks that say their shooting/training translates to the real world without any negatives. This is one of those negatives, always shooting steel once and shooting cardboard twice. "Non-standard" responses should also be a part of training included as a "standard" part of training as noted in quote above. Heads, pelvic girdle (although most effective with a rifle round), multiple targets based on the threat level, etc.

Extra rounds for insurance, and they don't require any extra paperwork...

Another issue with competition training is shooting faster than your reaction time and landing a bunch of hits behind the lateral midline (i.e., "in the back"). This may require some paperwork, and attorney fees, and extra expert witness expenses. Toni McBride and her shooting of a knife-wielding suspect was a good (positive) example of how a shooter that could fire some very quick splits, throttled it back to about .5 splits, two shots at a time fired in three pairs. (And she still got hammered by the media, her department, and others.)

(Note: She is prohibited from posing social media photos of herself with guns by LAPD but apparently just posted one from her wedding...gotta love it!)

And for the OP, the next Northwest Firearms gathering is at your house since you have a 50 yard shot, you should have plenty of room for all of us!!!

 

[Andy54Hawken]

Something to consider in regards to practice....

In real life you only get the shot that you get...And it may not be the one that was practiced.

Double taps...
If you think it is a good idea..or it makes you happy...why not..?

I would suggest here..
That one does not become fixated on any practice to the point of thinking that this how it is to be done all the time.
Real life and bad guys don't care how you practice...who you practiced with ...where you have trained or what you plan is.
They won't play by your rules.

Andy

 

[ilikegunspdx]

I've been practicing double taps since age 18. When I learned more I practiced double taps to head, crotch, torso in random order. With edc guns for me it's simply a reflex now.

 

[bbbass]

Double, triple, mag dumps, mozambiques. Just like to have my options.

View attachment 1447681

I just keep shooting until the target stops moving

Double taps are for competition, 3-5 rounds minimum standard response.

Pistol rounds suck, they don't have the power a rifle does. Unless you can put rounds in the snot locker every time...give yourself some insurance.

Practice the same with rifle rounds.

Extra rounds for insurance, and they don't require any extra paperwork...

^^^ These ^^^

 

[Cerberus Group]

Something to consider in regards to practice....

In real life you only get the shot that you get...And it may not be the one that was practiced.

Double taps...
If you think it is a good idea..or it makes you happy...why not..?

I would suggest here..
That one does not become fixated on any practice to the point of thinking that this how it is to be done all the time.
Real life and bad guys don't care how you practice...who you practiced with ...where you have trained or what you plan is.
They won't play by your rules.

Andy

This ^^^^^

In the end you'll have to fight what is dealt you, not the fight you trained for.

 

[ma96782]

It's an essential RULE of survival.

Aloha, Mark

 

[Flopsweat]

It's an essential RULE of survival.

Aloha, Mark

In the scene where he actually implements the "double tap" rule, he shoots twice, but not in rapid succession. I love how he doesn't even know what it means. Hollywood forya.

 

[washagonian]

A couple of years ago the President of the United States elucidated me that my 9mm defense handgun ammunition was so powerful that it could blow-out a lung.

So, I quit doing double-tap practice. Not necessary. I just put one round at center mass, then turn and walk away, cause no one is gonna be able to fight back with their lung blown-out their back.

Saves me a lot of money on practicing with my EDC defensive ammunition. Just one high-cost, defensive round per range visit. Then I go to my cheap range ammo and start plinking.

 

[bradsteen]

Good topic! The rule I follow is to continue firing until the bad guy is no longer a threat (not standing, turned and running away, etc). Determining whether or not they are still a threat requires reassessment of the target during the course of fire. When the target is static you can stop after an arbitrary number (2, 3, 4, or 5 shots) and simulate reassessment, but that method doesn't force you to make a decision based on new information. I would love to have a dynamic target that changes positions (turns, lowers, etc) at random so you have to really reassess during a course of fire.

 

[Flopsweat]

Good topic! The rule I follow is to continue firing until the bad guy is no longer a threat (not standing, turned and running away, etc). Determining whether or not they are still a threat requires reassessment of the target during the course of fire. When the target is static you can stop after an arbitrary number (2, 3, 4, or 5 shots) and simulate reassessment, but that method doesn't force you to make a decision based on new information. I would love to have a dynamic target that changes positions (turns, lowers, etc) at random so you have to really reassess during a course of fire.

We have those. They're hard to find and not reusable, but totally worth it. We call them raccoons.

 

[ilikegunspdx]

Just my way of thinking but I don't see any value in practicing "reassessment" personally. I do see tons of value in engaging multiple targets at multiple ranges though. Moving targets would be ideal but hard to do. Shooting from uncomfortable positions, moving yourself, etc is helpful I think. The less comfortable, relaxed, and slow fire the better imo. Most people are going to jerk the trigger in a surprise life and death situation. But if the gun is aligned and not moving at the time you jerk the trigger, you will hit the target. Just my opinion and may not be right for others. Leatham has a great exercise where the shooter is holding on target ina firm grip. He takes a magic marker and hits the shooters trigger literally as hard as he can, moving the shooters body backwards even, and every shot hits the target because the gun is not moving at the time the shot goes off.

 

[bradsteen]

Just my way of thinking but I don't see any value in practicing "reassessment" personally. I do see tons of value in engaging multiple targets at multiple ranges though. Moving targets would be ideal but hard to do. Shooting from uncomfortable positions, moving yourself, etc is helpful I think. The less comfortable, relaxed, and slow fire the better imo. Most people are going to jerk the trigger in a surprise life and death situation. But if the gun is aligned and not moving at the time you jerk the trigger, you will hit the target. Just my opinion and may not be right for others. Leatham has a great exercise where the shooter is holding on target ina firm grip. He takes a magic marker and hits the shooters trigger literally as hard as he can, moving the shooters body backwards even, and every shot hits the target because the gun is not moving at the time the shot goes off.

To me reassessment is necessary because the 4th rule of gun safety is "know your target, as well as what is around and beyond it". Self defense shootings are going to involve movement - by the good guy, the bad guy(s), and bystanders. You may have a good backstop when you start shooting, but if the bad guy traverses your line of sight and you're following him with your weapon, now your backstop has changed. If he goes from facing forward to running away, now his status as threat/non-threat may have changed. If bystanders run across your line of fire, you now have non-threats downrange that your fire may hit. For those reasons I think it's essential to train to stop and reassess. It's just really hard to train that on static targets, so the value of that training in real world applications is limited at best unless the targets or their positioning change.

 

[Stomper]

Something to consider in regards to practice....

In real life you only get the shot that you get...And it may not be the one that was practiced.

Double taps...
If you think it is a good idea..or it makes you happy...why not..?

I would suggest here..
That one does not become fixated on any practice to the point of thinking that this how it is to be done all the time.
Real life and bad guys don't care how you practice...who you practiced with ...where you have trained or what you plan is.
They won't play by your rules.

Andy

Yeah, about them "rules"…. ever since I was a skeeter-wing Army privet, I considered them more of a….. guideline or a suggestion.

 

[Andy54Hawken]

Yeah, about them "rules"…. ever since I was a skeeter-wing Army privet, I considered them more of a….. guideline or a suggestion.

Yeah...me too....Probably why the Army decided that I was a good fit in a LRRP / LSRD unit...
Well...there might have been a bit more that led to that decision....
Andy

 

[Flopsweat]

Yeah, about them "rules"…. ever since I was a skeeter-wing Army privet, I considered them more of a….. guideline or a suggestion.

 

[NeoBlackdog]

Double, triple, mag dumps, mozambiques. Just like to have my options.

View attachment 1447681

I bet you wish you'd brought the grenades now, huh?

 

[Aero Denezol]

Using an AR15 and .223. I can put 2 rounds in a 8" circle at 50 yards. The second round drifts becuase of reciol but you can still hold tight. Open to thoughts.

I started practicing quick 50 yard shots with a Glock 17 after Elisjsha Dicken dropped the Indiana mall shooter from 50 yards with a Glock 19. Dicken emptied his mag in seconds and landed (I believe) over 70% of his shots. It is impressive considering he was completely self-taught.

But yeah if you have a rifle handy, rifle > handgun 100% of the time.

 

[PORSCHE928S4]

I practice warning shots.

Due to the price of ammo it is not cost effective to give warning shots but will offer a twofer !

 

[Flopsweat]

Due to the price of ammo it is not cost effective to give warning shots but will offer a twofer !

Just guessing but I get the impression that his idea of a warning shot involves a non-lethal bullet wound of some sort.