Odd encounter with Leo during traffic stop while carrying

[Kruel J]

To the Moderator who anonymously edited my post #66 in this thread at 11:15 last night:

Please don't CHANGE my words. If I offend, and you are compelled to take action, I would prefer that you simply DELETE my entire post so it doesn't appear that I wrote something I didn't - even if it's a huge improvement.

Or maybe handle it adult style, like Andy has in the past (which I respect a lot) and offer me the chance to apologize sincerely (which I do) and either redact or delete my own post.

I fully understand why you wanted to censor my post (no lecture required). I just disagree with the way it was done.

It ain't easy being green. Er....blue.

 

[kott0n]

I didn't read the whole thread and don't have a specific response for the OP, just a general comment about "chatting" with an officer during a traffic stop.

One thing to remember: if you are chatting with a police officer that you are not acquainted with personally, you are not chatting. You are being interviewed. Those who are really good at it can leave you thinking you just had a nice informal chat, when in reality he found out all he needed to know about you- what kind of person you are, whether you are a threat or a nut job, etc.. People will say things in a friendly casual conversation that they would never admit under questioning.

It's an art and a very good skill for an officer to have.

This is exactly why I just ask to be cited or let go and that's it. I'm not interested in his life nor am I interested in sharing mine. I'm a civilian, LEO needs to spend this time elsewhere.

It should be different but they don't make me feel like a citizen in most encounters, there is of course some really good ones. It's really no different than any job as far as ratio goes but thedifference is the power LEO's wield.

 

[4Freedom]

This is exactly why I just ask to be cited or let go and that's it. I'm not interested in his life nor am I interested in sharing mine. I'm a civilian, LEO needs to spend this time elsewhere.

It should be different but they don't make me feel like a citizen in most encounters, there is of course some really good ones. It's really no different than any job as far as ratio goes but thedifference is the power LEO's wield.

But sometimes you got to sweet talk them to get out of that speeding ticket, if you get caught red handed I agree you should never divulge tooo much information.

I don't know what it was, but I have had encounters and even had some friends who were police officers back in the day. He just seemed like an alright guy.. That speeding ticket would have cost me a fortune as I have had a clean driving record prior to being pulled over. I've been harassed by police in the past, so I don't exactly have a warm fuzzy feeling of all police.

The best friend I had in Idaho was a former US Marshal and Meridian Police Officer. He was just a real cool guy I could chill with and he made a point of talking about the various amounts of abuse of authority that some cops were doing. Also, he told me he did not like the younger generation of police who seem to be on big ego trips.

 

[CoastRange57]

Also, he told me he did not like the younger generation of police who seem to be on big ego trips.

Must be different than the next younger generation that my neighbor who is a FTO had encountered. He has been an FTO for 10 years and said the latest round of trainees is some of the biggest snowflakes around, excepting the military guys he gets in. He rotated back out to patrol now and will be field training some of them. Training them to keep them alive. Some of them were offended when he yelled at them in training.

 

[bbbass]

Some of them were offended when he yelled at them in training.

LOLOLOL ROFL LMAO

 

[Member 5605]

Just curious if anyone else has ever been pulled over for a minor traffic violation while concealing & wanting to do the right thing tells the Leo I am concealing a firearm as I have a concealed permit. What happened next surprised me...... He then asked me where it was, opened my driver side door & removed my firearm from below my seat & set I on the hood of my car in the pouring rain. After a few minutes he decided he wasn't going to cite me because in his words(I'd been so cool with him). He then picked up my firearm ejected the clip, unchambered it & then proceeded to remove the pin to remove the slide. After this he then dropped the pile of metal on my lap & said have a nice day. Never asked me for it had no reason to feel threatened. This was the 4th or 5th time I've been pulled over while carrying, this I feel crossed a line. Would like to hear others opinions.

One question:
Did you give permission for him to open your door and remove your firearm?

if no: Shut up. Get the audio/video of the encounter. Seek legal advice.

if yes: Shut up. You gave them permission.

I had this happen many years ago, I repeated that I did not consent to a search of my vehicle. only when the officer said "UNLOCK YOUR DOOR" did I comply with a direct order. My pistol was removed, serial ran and I was harassed for another 45 minutes by the Corvallis police department. To this day they cannot tell me where the audio and video has gone. I put in a records request the next day... so far nothing.. it's been years.

 

[GSXR600k8]

He asked where it was & said I'm going to open your door & remove it from under your seat. I wasn't asked I was told. But even though I am an avid 2nd amendment activist. That in itself didn't bother me too much. Only the field strip of the gun. Especially since as he said" I'm not going to jam you up over the 2 week expired tags since you've been so cool with me." Again he had every right to pull me over I just forgot I needed to renew my tags cause it was my hunting rig. Plenty of good cops & just as many bad cops.

 

[Member 5605]

He asked where it was & said I'm going to open your door & remove it from under your seat. I wasn't asked I was told. But even though I am an avid 2nd amendment activist. That in itself didn't bother me too much. Only the field strip of the gun. Especially since as he said" I'm not going to jam you up over the 2 week expired tags since you've been so cool with me." Again he had every right to pull me over I just forgot I needed to renew my tags cause it was my hunting rig. Plenty of good cops & just as many bad cops.

So you did not give permission. See second part of the above question. Doesn't matter if it's just one time. Overstepping YOUR rights as an individual once is once too many. I will discuss any matter with a LEO outside of my house, not inside. They want inside, show the warrant. You want to open my door.. you better be arresting me and at that point I'm silent until I have legal representation. This isn't a "good cop/bad cop" issue. It's one of your rights being trampled.

If all murder would cease by removing all firearms from the nation (hypothetical), would you give yours up? if you hesitated to respond then do nothing about the above, if your immediate reaction was "hell no, I have rights to life and what I decide to own and not own" then move forward and press a department issued change... often at the hands of a lawsuit. Corvallis got their tit in the barbwire fence years ago by detaining a man who was checking his mail... ...

Your life, live it as you see fit.

 

[Andy54Hawken]

Speaking only for myself here...
If I am stopped for say for a traffic violation...then , even if carrying , I will not outright volunteer that information as it is not relevant to why I was stopped...I have a CPL , I can carry concealed..my carrying or not has nothing to do with a traffic stop.

I am not saying the I would lie or refuse to answer a question , request or command...Just saying that act of concealed carry is not a crime or reason to volunteer that information if it is not relevant to the situation at hand.

As for the request to see the OP's pistol ...I can kind of understand given today's world...
( not 100 % sold on that idea however)
The "Field Stripping" of the OP's pistol was out of line and uncalled for in my opinion.
Andy

 

[CLT65]

He was what I would consider a respectable police officer. I'm aware he could have pulled his gun on me and ordered me out of the vehicle at any time. I was also freaked out that he may give me a speeding ticket and my insurance rates would skyrocket. However, I started asking him about how he liked living in Baker City and he was asking me what I think about living in Boise, etc, etc. It could have all been a ploy, but whatever, I was complying with whatever he wanted...

I didn't mean to imply that casual conversation with an officer was never sincere, just that even if you are having a friendly conversation you're also being sized up to some degree, and even in friendly conversation "whatever you say can and will be held against you".

If you're not doing something wrong you really don't have much to worry about, generally, just be aware. I have a good friend who is a county deputy and he says he deals with smooth talking dirtbags so often that he's pretty good at picking them out.

The officer probably sized you up pretty quick, then just continued the casual conversation and let you off because he was really looking for "bad guys", not just a normal person going a bit too fast.

 

[11Charlie]

I have had some of the best conversations with LEO's many a time. I guess the difference is they are not pulling me over!

 

[Larry243]

Just curious if anyone else has ever been pulled over for a minor traffic violation while concealing & wanting to do the right thing tells the Leo I am concealing a firearm as I have a concealed permit. What happened next surprised me...... He then asked me where it was, opened my driver side door & removed my firearm from below my seat & set I on the hood of my car in the pouring rain. After a few minutes he decided he wasn't going to cite me because in his words(I'd been so cool with him). He then picked up my firearm ejected the clip, unchambered it & then proceeded to remove the pin to remove the slide. After this he then dropped the pile of metal on my lap & said have a nice day. Never asked me for it had no reason to feel threatened. This was the 4th or 5th time I've been pulled over while carrying, this I feel crossed a line. Would like to hear others opinions.

You know,
It all depends on what stat you are in. States that have terrible gun problems with people always tend to error on the side of safety and awareness. Some smart bubblegum cops think they just need to make an issue, because they do not like the fact that we the people have parity with them on hand guns. The resent the fact that we have them also. Great states like Idaho, Montana, Wyoming, and Utah have lots of hunters and gun packing citizens that work with law enforcement. Crap states like Oregon, Washington, and California always want oppression to be displayed with people and they resent the 4th amendment.
It's the sign of the time old friend... Until the leadership changes... The beatings will continue....

Larry243

 

[AirWolf]

If I was in places like Seattle or Portland, however, I would not inform a police officer I was carrying, assuming the state doesn't have a "Must Inform" law,. I usually consider my surroundings and the mentality of the police in the area. However, in the state of Oregon and Washington I believe they have your CHL information from your DMV record anyway, so I am not sure if there is an advantage of keeping quiet? I've actually wondered about that.

If the officer who stops you has the time to run your plate first and you are one of the registered owners of the car then he will see you have a valid CHL.

However, often there isn't time, you call radio, call out the plate, initiate the stop, start looking for the person to be making weird movements, hiding something, going for something, acting suspicious. You don't want to take your eyes off them to run the plate. A CHL isn't a crime or a warrant or a restraining order or anything else dispatch will call you back to tell you they have. So yes, often you are approaching the car not knowing the person has a valid CHL and may have a gun.

Of course, if they aren't the registered owner it wouldn't make a difference if you run the plate or not before the stop.

I'd rather someone told me they were carrying when they hand over their license. Frankly a valid CHL means you are getting a warning unless you were really driving like an bubblegum and endangering others. I mostly give warnings though, so I don't have to justify why a CHL person gets a warning and regular guy didn't.

You are not required to say anything in Oregon, but I'd sure appreciate it if I stop you.

 

[Larry243]

If the officer who stops you has the time to run your plate first and you are one of the registered owners of the car then he will see you have a valid CHL.

However, often there isn't time, you call radio, call out the plate, initiate the stop, start looking for the person to be making weird movements, hiding something, going for something, acting suspicious. You don't want to take your eyes off them to run the plate. A CHL isn't a crime or a warrant or a restraining order or anything else dispatch will call you back to tell you they have. So yes, often you are approaching the car not knowing the person has a valid CHL and may have a gun.

Of course, if they aren't the registered owner it wouldn't make a difference if you run the plate or not before the stop.

I'd rather someone told me they were carrying when they hand over their license. Frankly a valid CHL means you are getting a warning unless you were really driving like an bubblegum and endangering others. I mostly give warnings though, so I don't have to justify why a CHL person gets a warning and regular guy didn't.

You are not required to say anything in Oregon, but I'd sure appreciate it if I stop you.

Good Point.... As long as you are courteous!
A lot of officers forget they are public servants and think they need to show or provide some kind of oppression and disrespect. We the public however should be accommodating when asked... politely!

 

[Certaindeaf]

This is why I choad carry and have tryanosaurus arms.
At least I'll get a little thrill out of it when it becomes clear that I can't hand over my firearm for summary disassembly.















not really

 

[SUPER X]

Just curious if anyone else has ever been pulled over for a minor traffic violation while concealing & wanting to do the right thing tells the Leo I am concealing a firearm as I have a concealed permit. What happened next surprised me...... He then asked me where it was, opened my driver side door & removed my firearm from below my seat & set I on the hood of my car in the pouring rain. After a few minutes he decided he wasn't going to cite me because in his words(I'd been so cool with him). He then picked up my firearm ejected the clip, unchambered it & then proceeded to remove the pin to remove the slide. After this he then dropped the pile of metal on my lap & said have a nice day. Never asked me for it had no reason to feel threatened. This was the 4th or 5th time I've been pulled over while carrying, this I feel crossed a line. Would like to hear others opinions.

When they run your license & possibly your plate it tells them you have a CHL and insurance
The only time I was pulled over while carring I did not bring it up and did what was ask of me.
I did also keep my hands in sight .

 

[CoastRange57]

The couple of times I have been stopped in recent years was minor equipment issues. Trailer light out. Hands on the wheel at 10 and 2, interior light on if at night. I tell them right up front I and my wife both have CHL's out of Washington County,I have a semi auto .40 on my right side, a hunting knife in a sheath in my door pocket and my wallet is in my left rear pocket and my wife has a .380 in her door pocket and a 9mm on her side as well. I have my registration and insurance proof on my sun visor.

Most are somewhat amused by that time, I usually know what I have been stopped for and do not try and lay a bunch of bullsh*t on them, nor play stupid as to why I was stopped. The small Marine Corps sticker and fire department stickers on my back windows probably helps out too.

 

[BroncoFan]

He asked where it was & said I'm going to open your door & remove it from under your seat. I wasn't asked I was told. But even though I am an avid 2nd amendment activist. That in itself didn't bother me too much. Only the field strip of the gun. Especially since as he said" I'm not going to jam you up over the 2 week expired tags since you've been so cool with me." Again he had every right to pull me over I just forgot I needed to renew my tags cause it was my hunting rig. Plenty of good cops & just as many bad cops.

Was this a young guy older guy? No LEO I know would take possession of a firearm based solely on the information that you had a CHL and were armed. I am not reaching under your seat while you are seated in the car. Your first day as an LEO you're taught position of advantage/disadvantage. Me bent over reaching under your seat with you right there is a position of disadvantage. No bueno.

 

[Donna]

I think a complaint to his boss is warranted. He didn't have to do what he did by going the extra mile in breaking your gun down the way he did. I have respect for the blues, but there are those few that like to cross the line and they need to be reminded that we are people just like he is and we try our best to follow the law as we are taught and he is there to protect, not harass or push buttons. You ask the right question, you'll get a lot of great answers. Glad to be able to participate in this discussion, take care.

 

[Larry243]

I think a complaint to his boss is warranted. He didn't have to do what he did by going the extra mile in breaking your gun down the way he did. I have respect for the blues, but there are those few that like to cross the line and they need to be reminded that we are people just like he is and we try our best to follow the law as we are taught and he is there to protect, not harass or push buttons. You ask the right question, you'll get a lot of great answers. Glad to be able to participate in this discussion, take care.

The problem is,
All these cop's work for a pay check.. First ) They did not join the force to exercise there civic duty ok, They only get on the band wagon of brotherly love once they join, because it is part of there training. They are expected to go out and bust law breakers, create oppression, and try to install fear in all people to ensure discipline. Everyone needs to understand that they will kill you if there boss says to. They are working for paychecks. They think they are doing right because they are told to do something, and this justifies what ever they do. Look how they act at riots.... They can't wait to bust someone with a club or taser. They stand around laughing and joking about the situation. Police agencies today are nothing more then greed operated programs that hire 300 lb. fat men that are given a $45,000-$50,000 fancy SUV all decked out to ride around in all day.
They cannot catch anyone on foot, because they are way to fat. They just stay in there seat all day eating more potato chips and then tell there wives how hard they worked when they get home...... Give me a break. It is all about industrial greed and not about public safety at all. They are the ones that select to take the position of a police officer. No one broke there arm to get them to do it. They just sign up looking for a job like anyone else. They want the benefits and easy life of cop's today. They justify there oppressive behavior because they get to say I am the Law!
Oh, I know, there public relations officer gets to stand in front of the police station reading a typed statement that was created to make you believe that they are for harmony and civic service, but that is all BS. They want to ensure they get there budgets so they can get raises and bonuses, and perks funded by the public... Police agencies are nothing more then a business that sells righteous beliefs that are created for greed only, not public safety. What happen to the days when a police officer had to be trim, in shape, and had to pass a physical test every year? Today, they go 300-325 lbs. with shirts they can't button and wont even get out of the car to talk to you when needed. They wallow up to your car with donut sugar on there tie and say, can I see your drivers license and proof of insurance. It is only a pay check for them, and nothing else..... When is lunch! We the people get brain washed by the media that was paid for with our taxis to make it look like Law enforcement really cares... It is just a job. They do very little for public safety, but always ask for more money!
People in America need to wake up and see what is really going on with so called Public safety!