Odd encounter with Leo during traffic stop while carrying

[4Freedom]

Just curious if anyone else has ever been pulled over for a minor traffic violation while concealing & wanting to do the right thing tells the Leo I am concealing a firearm as I have a concealed permit. What happened next surprised me...... He then asked me where it was, opened my driver side door & removed my firearm from below my seat & set I on the hood of my car in the pouring rain. After a few minutes he decided he wasn't going to cite me because in his words(I'd been so cool with him). He then picked up my firearm ejected the clip, unchambered it & then proceeded to remove the pin to remove the slide. After this he then dropped the pile of metal on my lap & said have a nice day. Never asked me for it had no reason to feel threatened. This was the 4th or 5th time I've been pulled over while carrying, this I feel crossed a line. Would like to hear others opinions.

Did you get his badge number or remember his patrol car number or license? If it was me, I would have privately wrote that info down and filed a complaint against the officer. I'd also look into filing a lawsuit against the department for harassment. Field stripping your gun is not department procedure I bet and you posed no threat. By dismantling your firearm and making it non-functional, he also infringed upon your right to self-defense and violated the rights of a lawful conceal carry holder. In fact, by him taking your firearm from you he seized your personal property and would have needed some justified cause. Opening up your car without probable cause could also possibly be unlawful search and seizure.

What you described is something that may be feasible for a federal border/immigration officer to perform at a federal border zone, but not acceptable for a local LEO to do within a state jurisdiction.

He mentioned that you were "so cool" with him and didn't even bother to ticket you. So, what justification does he have for performing his most likely illegal search, seizure, disarming you, dismantling your gun and even damaging the gun by leaving it to sit in the rain?

Sounds like he was a poorly trained rookie or just some complete d*uche on a strange power-trip.

Probably the best next step to do is contact an attorney and see how to proceed. If you cannot remember any identifying information about the patrol officer, then if you can remember the location and time of day you were pulled over you can probably locate him that way through his local precinct/district/etc.

 

[EPS]

Did you get his badge number or remember his patrol car number or license? If it was me, I would have privately wrote that info down and filed a complaint against the officer. I'd also look into filing a lawsuit against the department for harassment. Field stripping your gun is not department procedure I bet and you posed no threat. By dismantling your firearm and making in non-functional he also infringed upon your right to self-defense and violated the rights of a lawful conceal carry holder. In fact, by him taking your firearm from you he seized your personal property and would have needed some justified cause. Opening up your car without probable cause could also possibly be unlawful search and seizure.

He mentioned that you were "so cool" with him and didn't even bother to ticket you. So, what justification does he have for performing his most likely illegal search, seizure, disarming you, dismantling your gun and even damaging the gun by leaving it to sit in the rain?

Sounds like he was a poorly trained rookie or just some complete d*uche on a strange power-trip.

Probably the best next step to do is contact an attorney and see how to proceed.

All that is great but cost money not everyone has a lawyer on call 24/7 I got USCCA insurance but that only good if I have to use my gun then there are no guarantees like they say I'll answer your questions when my lawyer gets here that's one thing about leo if you ask for a lawyer they have to give it to you BUT CAN YOU AFFORD IT

 

[johnny bob]

A lot of people forget to not answer questions that aren't asked.

As my friend usta say its a "you get hung by your tongue" kinda thing.

 

[4Freedom]

All that is great but cost money not everyone has a lawyer on call 24/7 I got USCCA insurance but that only good if I have to use my gun then there are no guarantees like they say I'll answer your questions when my lawyer gets here that's one thing about leo if you ask for a lawyer they have to give it to you BUT CAN YOU AFFORD IT

It's true, not many can afford a lawyer.. There are a few of those lawyers who do work on contingencies if they think the case has any merit; especially on civil right issues against governing entities. This would be a low level civil rights case. And, for most of us average Joe citizens, there is not a lot we can do about the abuse of power from various governing agencies. But, for those who can, that is about the only thing I can think. Of course, you can file a complaint. But, then, I cannot expect many departments to reprimand a police officer over one individual's complaint. An attorney could look into the officer's records and see if he has had any history to see if there is any other strikes against him or past complaints. People have sued police over lesser things than what I am reading here. There may be some straight, cut and dry rules (at the state level even) that could have been clearly violated and which an attorney could much better present to his department.

I think it is worth a free consultation or even an initial paid one with a reputable attorney, however, just so the OP can learn more about his situation and options. I've learned a considerable amount about various laws and situations from even phone consultations with some attorneys. There are also attorneys who are driven by these type of cases who sometimes will represent you via contingency (although not so common).

Anytime you want to stand up against LE/government abusing power, it will not be an easy fight.

 

[EPS]

No lawyer is going to file a law suit against the city or state with out money up front unless they know they are going to win

 

[4Freedom]

No lawyer is going to file a law suit against the city or state with out money up front unless they know they are going to win

That was the point I was making.. It could be that the officer violated the rules so grossly, that it may be a clear and obvious violation of his department policy, state law, etc and may not be hard to file a complaint. I just believe any official complaint would be better assisted with the help of a lawyer in this situation.

When my car was stolen in Portland, the officer failed to report the car stolen properly. My stolen car was parked at a garage and eventually auctioned off, since it was not reported stolen. After getting a huge bill, like over $5000 and threats of being sued by the parking garage, I had to call the police officer who filed the report. He proceeded with threatening to make me very sorry if he ever heard from me again. So, being as screwed as I was, I had no choice to proceed and talked to one of his supervisors. She told me the officer did not properly do his job and he was required to report it stolen even without the title (he falsely claimed I needed). His superiors made him call me, apologize and he sounded very nervous and apologetic. The car was reported stolen and many people told me I should have sued him and it would have been an easy win for me. However, it was not a great car and I just let it go and moved on with my life, but this was not a 2nd Amendment related issue, which I feel a bit more passionate about.

Or, it could be a can of worms, the officer and department could deny everything or make up a fallacious story justifying what he did and he will have the fight of his life.

 

[deadeye]

Lets stay on topic and avoid the bashing and all rule violations shall we.

 

[teflon6string]

To the Moderator who anonymously edited my post #66 in this thread at 11:15 last night:

Please don't CHANGE my words. If I offend, and you are compelled to take action, I would prefer that you simply DELETE my entire post so it doesn't appear that I wrote something I didn't - even if it's a huge improvement.

Or maybe handle it adult style, like Andy has in the past (which I respect a lot) and offer me the chance to apologize sincerely (which I do) and either redact or delete my own post.

I fully understand why you wanted to censor my post (no lecture required). I just disagree with the way it was done.

 

[Argonaut]

To the Moderator who anonymously edited my post #66 in this thread at 11:15 last night:

Please don't CHANGE my words. If I offend, and you are compelled to take action, I would prefer that you simply DELETE my entire post so it doesn't appear that I wrote something I didn't - even if it's a huge improvement.

Or maybe handle it adult style, like Andy has in the past (which I respect a lot) and offer me the chance to apologize sincerely (which I do) and either redact or delete my own post.

I fully understand why you wanted to censor my post (no lecture required). I just disagree with the way it was done.

He just eliminated several of mine after the snowflake cried that I was defecating on him......never used any off color language or even attacked the guy.......maby he is related to the snowflake?

 

[11Charlie]

At least it isn't summer! I heard snowflakes melt when it gets hot!

 

[Mainsail]

The thread has pretty much run its course; the OP has stated in Post 74 that he likely wouldn't take any action. Thus the officer will continue to misbehave, and the rest of us are still at risk of encountering him.

 

[Argonaut]

The thread has pretty much run its course; the OP has stated in Post 74 that he likely wouldn't take any action. Thus the officer will continue to misbehave, and the rest of us are still at risk of encountering him.

If he is the biggest risk you have in life....... you are in really good shape.

 

[GSXR600k8]

Maybe it's time to shut this post down. I'm grateful for all the input good and bad. Never would've expected this topic to take off like it did. Shows what a great community northwest firearms has created. On another note I did take action by contacting Kevin Starrett from Oregon firearms federation & he said I Had a lawsuit if I wanted to pursue it and had the funds to do so. Unfortunately I don't, so he said the next best thing would be for him to contact Springfield PD and inform their higher ups that the policy of "officer discretion" is illegal without probable cause which there was none. He Also stated that there was a high probability by the end of his involvement they will have a policy in place for the future that is law abiding.

 

[Don C]

I have a only a had 2 encounters/contacts with LEO since getting my CHL several years ago, both times 1 time I informed the officer, thats what we were trained to do in the class I took at the Clackamas County Sherriffs office, he was totally cool about it aand just told me to keep my hands away from it after he asked where it was. The 2nd time the officer asked me when he approached me, he'd already ran my new plate so i told him yes, he didnt even ask to see you my permit although I hope offered it and was totally cool, like the 1st guy he judt asked that i not make any sudden reaches for it and that was that.
Its almost as if that officer thought he'd give himself a running head start by disassembling it and dumping it in your lap, definately not cool or professional!

On another occassion where I was not stopped but was just talking to a couple officers at an event at a park, both were very cool and supportive of the fact I exercised my 2nd amendment rights. Sorry to hear your situation was made so much worse than it had to be! I hope I never experience that.

 

[4Freedom]

Maybe it's time to shut this post down. I'm grateful for all the input good and bad. Never would've expected this topic to take off like it did. Shows what a great community northwest firearms has created. On another note I did take action by contacting Kevin Starrett from Oregon firearms federation & he said I Had a lawsuit if I wanted to pursue it and had the funds to do so. Unfortunately I don't, so he said the next best thing would be for him to contact Springfield PD and inform their higher ups that the policy of "officer discretion" is illegal without probable cause which there was none. He Also stated that there was a high probability by the end of his involvement they will have a policy in place for the future that is law abiding.

I just want to give my respects to you for taking action. If people don't take action, these abuses of power will keep going unchecked. Actually, I hope this thread stays alive, as threads like this are very important to the well-being of all conceal carriers in this area. Obviously, we need to keep the thread clean and on-topic. Bad encounters make things worse in the long run for both law enforcement and law abiding citizens.

I'm just wanting the threads to stay on topic and not devolve into pissing matches and insult matches. I respect people who don't agree with me, but insulting people, getting personal and talking down on them doesn't help anybody. Agronaut can call me all the insulting names he wants, I will not be responding to him, anymore.

As far as my own personal experiences being pulled over, I have only been pulled over one time in the last 15 years when I was speeding a bit through Baker City at night back when the speed limit was 65 and I was going 80. I handed the officer my driver license and concealed handgun license. He asked if I had a gun in the car and I pointed with my head and vocalized where my guns were, two on my body and a third in glove box. I was travelling to Boise to look for place to live at the time. He was real cool and we ended up just chit-chatting for while about life. At the end, he thanked me for being upfront with him and didn't give me a ticket and I think he was really quite bored. Of course, I was dealing with a country cop and those are usually the best to deal with in these matters.

Once again, glad to hear you have taken action. The more people that speak up, the more likely these incidents will not occur in the future.

 

[11Charlie]

I just got done having a conversation with a on duty Vancouver LEO. For anyone who is interested he told me that we do not need to divulge any info to a officer who is pulling us over it is our right to carry and he supported anyone who does. He did mention a couple things.

First don't keep your wallet and or I.D. in your pocket next to your pistol. Keep the two seperate and if for some reason you do then just listen and follow verbal instructions.

Second he mentioned that he always likes when a person is upfront and forthcoming with him about the status of any fire arm on your person but it is not law for any one to share this information.

It was a good conversation and I personally think it is always nice to get the opinion of people who have to deal with it on a daily basis. IMHO There job is hard enough, no reason for me to make it any more difficult than it needs to be. We also discussed if he knew anyone in his department that would freek out if someone was carrying. He couldn't think of any and said that a lot of the guys he works with have come from small rural departments and are used to everyone carrying.

 

[CLT65]

He asked if I had a gun in the car and I pointed with my head and vocalized where my guns were, two on my body and a third in glove box. I was travelling to Boise to look for place to live at the time. He was real cool and we ended up just chit-chatting for while about life. At the end, he thanked me for being upfront with him and didn't give me a ticket and I think he was really quite bored.

I didn't read the whole thread and don't have a specific response for the OP, just a general comment about "chatting" with an officer during a traffic stop.

One thing to remember: if you are chatting with a police officer that you are not acquainted with personally, you are not chatting. You are being interviewed. Those who are really good at it can leave you thinking you just had a nice informal chat, when in reality he found out all he needed to know about you- what kind of person you are, whether you are a threat or a nut job, etc.. People will say things in a friendly casual conversation that they would never admit under questioning.

It's an art and a very good skill for an officer to have.

 

[wired]

I didn't read the whole thread and don't have a specific response for the OP, just a general comment about "chatting" with an officer during a traffic stop.

One thing to remember: if you are chatting with a police officer that you are not acquainted with personally, you are not chatting. You are being interviewed. Those who are really good at it can leave you thinking you just had a nice informal chat, when in reality he found out all he needed to know about you- what kind of person you are, whether you are a threat or a nut job, etc.. People will say things in a friendly casual conversation that they would never admit under questioning.

It's an art and a very good skill for an officer to have.

And that is why its always best to keep a fully professional conversation going. Just the facts ma'am. Name , rank, serial number. You might be trying to make a new friend but not everyone in the conversation is.

 

[Hawaiian]

Yep, that is their job. I was in the security line at the airport and I was watching the TSA officers to see how they were doing their job. The supervisor noticed me watching them and casually walked over and struck up a casual conversation. He was feeling/checking me out, but I knew that and just joked around with him. When he saw that I was not nervous or trying to avoid him he went back to watching others.

 

[4Freedom]

I didn't read the whole thread and don't have a specific response for the OP, just a general comment about "chatting" with an officer during a traffic stop.

One thing to remember: if you are chatting with a police officer that you are not acquainted with personally, you are not chatting. You are being interviewed. Those who are really good at it can leave you thinking you just had a nice informal chat, when in reality he found out all he needed to know about you- what kind of person you are, whether you are a threat or a nut job, etc.. People will say things in a friendly casual conversation that they would never admit under questioning.

It's an art and a very good skill for an officer to have.

He was what I would consider a respectable police officer. I'm aware he could have pulled his gun on me and ordered me out of the vehicle at any time. I was also freaked out that he may give me a speeding ticket and my insurance rates would skyrocket. However, I started asking him about how he liked living in Baker City and he was asking me what I think about living in Boise, etc, etc. It could have all been a ploy, but whatever, I was complying with whatever he wanted. I wouldn't want to have to go up to someone's car in the middle of night in a remote wilderness, so I was aware I had to make the encounter as pleasant as possible on my side and he did the same. Ironically, I made a point of showing him my CHL, because I have heard on many occasions, that being open about carrying when pulled over can save you from speeding tickets and I think it did in my case. I was shocked he didn't write me a ticket.

If I was in places like Seattle or Portland, however, I would not inform a police officer I was carrying, assuming the state doesn't have a "Must Inform" law,. I usually consider my surroundings and the mentality of the police in the area. However, in the state of Oregon and Washington I believe they have your CHL information from your DMV record anyway, so I am not sure if there is an advantage of keeping quiet? I've actually wondered about that.