My rifle seized, a bad guy arrested and the firearm finally returned.

[RVTECH]

If we could eliminate poaching,

Dare to dream....

One of the biggest problems with poaching is it typically is NOT done out of need, but due to several other reasons.

One of the primary reasons is the illegal sale of the meat. There are active, clandestine operations of this taking place. One such was caught in the LaPine area many years ago with the poachers having many hanging deer and elk carcasses in a shop with wrapped and packaged meat ready to go.

Another is narcissistic, self centered, opulence. Large property owners have been known to poach regularly for their own WANTS - not needs. And sometimes due to their remote locations or those even relatively close to more populated areas the simple fact of having private property out of view of the general public makes it almost impossible for them to get caught.

Odd or otherwise bizarre psychological reasons. Many deer and elk are found shot dead with nothing taken from them - other than occasionally antlers being sawed off - but this was mostly due to a fad at one time when certain 'Asiatic' people were touting deer and elk antlers to have certain 'male enhancement' qualities and producing 'supplements' from the antlers.

 

[Bobbygun]

Dare to dream....

One of the biggest problems with poaching is it typically is NOT done out of need, but due to several other reasons.

One of the primary reasons is the illegal sale of the meat. There are active, clandestine operations of this taking place. One such was caught in the LaPine area many years ago with the poachers having many hanging deer and elk carcasses in a shop with wrapped and packaged meat ready to go.

Another is narcissistic, self centered, opulence. Large property owners have been known to poach regularly for their own WANTS - not needs. And sometimes due to their remote locations or those even relatively close to more populated areas the simple fact of having private property out of view of the general public makes it almost impossible for them to get caught.

Odd or otherwise bizarre psychological reasons. Many deer and elk are found shot dead with nothing taken from them - other than occasionally antlers being sawed off - but this was mostly due to a fad at one time when certain 'Asiatic' people were touting deer and elk antlers to have certain 'male enhancement' qualities and producing 'supplements' from the antlers.

Spot on.

Without anyone turning them in, there would be only three chances of them getting caught: Slim, Fat & None

 

[OldBroad44]

Dare to dream....

One of the biggest problems with poaching is it typically is NOT done out of need, but due to several other reasons.

One of the primary reasons is the illegal sale of the meat. There are active, clandestine operations of this taking place. One such was caught in the LaPine area many years ago with the poachers having many hanging deer and elk carcasses in a shop with wrapped and packaged meat ready to go.

Another is narcissistic, self centered, opulence. Large property owners have been known to poach regularly for their own WANTS - not needs. And sometimes due to their remote locations or those even relatively close to more populated areas the simple fact of having private property out of view of the general public makes it almost impossible for them to get caught.

Odd or otherwise bizarre psychological reasons. Many deer and elk are found shot dead with nothing taken from them - other than occasionally antlers being sawed off - but this was mostly due to a fad at one time when certain 'Asiatic' people were touting deer and elk antlers to have certain 'male enhancement' qualities and producing 'supplements' from the antlers.

Interesting, @RVTECH . I'd like to know more about the commercial poaching. This isn't something I had ever heard about except poaching bear ...gall bladders I think it was...for use as Chinese medicine. And shark fins from shark protection zones for use in shark fin soup in China and Japan. In both cases stripping out the one part and discarding the entire rest of the carcass. And destroying endangered tropical coral reefs in the process, where large sharks are the apex predator essential to the health and survival of the corals themselves thus the entire reef ecosystem.

Who do the commercial poachers sell the illegal meat to? And as what? Pet food factories? Other countries for people food? to fancy restaurants? And if so, sold as what it is or misrepresented as something else? Or sold to people here and if so where and called what? And who is killing the game? Do they have armies of poachers harvesting entire herds in the night? Or are they buying from individual poachers? Or even from large property owners who make their land available?

Do you have links to any videos or journal articles about commercial poaching in the US?

Cheers,
carol

 

[Dan_g]

All of this could have been avoided if you were a misanthrope.

 

[RVTECH]

Who do the commercial poachers sell the illegal meat to? And as what? Pet food factories? Other countries for people food? to fancy restaurants? And if so, sold as what it is or misrepresented as something else? Or sold to people here and if so where and called what? And who is killing the game? Do they have armies of poachers harvesting entire herds in the night? Or are they buying from individual poachers? Or even from large property owners who make their land available?

I'll try to answer your 11 questions with a simple explanation.

This isn't anything on a 'commercial' level - but more of a small scale, local, 'word of mouth' situation.

These aren't highly skilled operators but mostly just local idiots who maintain a few 'customers' who will buy game whenever they have it available.

Its an old, enduring, typically 'rural' problem that is occasionally revealed.

 

[Kristopher Kam]

Interesting, @RVTECH . I'd like to know more about the commercial poaching. This isn't something I had ever heard about except poaching bear ...gall bladders I think it was...for use as Chinese medicine. And shark fins from shark protection zones for use in shark fin soup in China and Japan. In both cases stripping out the one part and discarding the entire rest of the carcass. And destroying endangered tropical coral reefs in the process, where large sharks are the apex predator essential to the health and survival of the corals themselves thus the entire reef ecosystem.

Who do the commercial poachers sell the illegal meat to? And as what? Pet food factories? Other countries for people food? to fancy restaurants? And if so, sold as what it is or misrepresented as something else? Or sold to people here and if so where and called what? And who is killing the game? Do they have armies of poachers harvesting entire herds in the night? Or are they buying from individual poachers? Or even from large property owners who make their land available?

Do you have links to any videos or journal articles about commercial poaching in the US?

Cheers,
carol

There are some very dark deeds with bears in Asia. They busted one group that had bears strapped down in harnesses with permanent metal tubes surgically implanted in their gallbladder just dripping out the liquid. It's like a horror movie.

 

[OldBroad44]

There are some very dark deeds with bears in Asia. They busted one group that had bears strapped down in harnesses with permanent metal tubes surgically implanted in their gallbladder just dripping out the liquid. It's like a horror movie.

The shark fin story is a horror story too. Factory ships go to these shark sanctuary reefs and net thousands of sharks. They cut all the fins off the living animals and throw them, still living, back into the sea.

 

[Bobbygun]

Interesting, @RVTECH . I'd like to know more about the commercial poaching. This isn't something I had ever heard about except poaching bear ...gall bladders I think it was...for use as Chinese medicine. And shark fins from shark protection zones for use in shark fin soup in China and Japan. In both cases stripping out the one part and discarding the entire rest of the carcass. And destroying endangered tropical coral reefs in the process, where large sharks are the apex predator essential to the health and survival of the corals themselves thus the entire reef ecosystem.

Who do the commercial poachers sell the illegal meat to? And as what? Pet food factories? Other countries for people food? to fancy restaurants? And if so, sold as what it is or misrepresented as something else? Or sold to people here and if so where and called what? And who is killing the game? Do they have armies of poachers harvesting entire herds in the night? Or are they buying from individual poachers? Or even from large property owners who make their land available?

Do you have links to any videos or journal articles about commercial poaching in the US?

Cheers,
carol

Here is a link on poaching you may find interesting. One item that caught my eye is "And a 2015 study by the Fish and Wildlife Department concluded that as many mule deer are poached in Central Oregon as are legally killed. "

Rewards, tougher prosecutions employed to slow illegal slaughter of wildlife • Oregon Capital Chronicle

Poaching in Oregon now involves more "thrill kills" as state authorities push to make Oregonians aware of damage.

oregoncapitalchronicle.com

 

[RVTECH]

And a 2015 study by the Fish and Wildlife Department concluded that as many mule deer are poached in Central Oregon as are legally killed. "

Yep - this isn't anything new and has been a standard speculation for a long time and not just in Central Oregon but essentially anywhere there is easy access to deer.

 

[OldBroad44]

Thanks. I'll check it out.

I found a 37 page paper that's a bit old but very relevant and with lots if refs. My tablet can't make links. Could someone else add the link? This is to a PDF available on the internet, no paywall.

"The Status of Poaching in the United States." Ruth S Musgrave et. al. Natural Resources Journal Vol 33 Issue 4 1993.
Just the title should be enough to find it.

 

[Flopsweat]

Thanks. I'll check it out.

I found a 37 page paper that's a bit old but very relevant and with lots if refs. My tablet can't make links. Could someone else add the link? This is to a PDF available on the internet, no paywall.

"The Status of Poaching in the United States." Ruth S Musgrave et. al. Natural Resources Journal Vol 33 Issue 4 1993.
Just the title should be enough to find it.

The Status of Poaching in the United States - Are We Protecting Our Wildlife

By Ruth S. Musgrave, Sara Parker, and Miriam Wolok, Published on 10/01/93

digitalrepository.unm.edu

 

[Mecanik]

I would have just tagged my elk and left. Case closed.... . Just sayin

 

[Koda]

A while back I read or heard somewhere that poaching or "illegal taking" of deer and elk counts for about what lawful hunters take. Deer and elk numbers are in a serious decline. The average odds of a hunter in Oregon is about 15% success rate. Think about what hunting would be like if we could theoretically eliminate poaching.

 

[nwwoodsman]

I believe that one of the most important personality characteristics a person can have is the ability to mind his or her own business. I don't poach. But I don't turn people in for poaching either. And I don't use illegal drugs. But if someone invited me to dinner I wouldn't report them if it turned out they used illegal drugs. I'd just get myself out of there and keep my mouth shut. However, I would intervene to stop a murder or assault or rape or abduction or kidnapping if I could, and/or call 911 or report it. And I did once call to report a burglary of a neighbor's house. Saw the bad guy coming out the window. I think everyone must choose some point between the principle of MYOB on everything vs always acting to facilitate law enforcement--that is, being snitches and spies wherever possible. Everyone draws the line somewhere. And most of us don't find either extreme where we want to be or prefer our friends and neighbors to be.

I agree with you on every point, except for turning in poachers: I'll jump at the chance and sleep easy at night. I play by the rules and have no sympathy for others who think they are more entitled to a limited resource. Beyond that, I don't care. I think the difficult concept that you are failing to grasp is that he made it my business by illegally using my firearm to poach an elk then not tagging it.Had I not said anything and he got caught, I get charged with aiding in the commission of a wildlife crime. Having a dead elk hanging off the bucket of a tractor within view of a state highway very likely could have lead to a tag check and all that fun that would've happened from there.

 

[Koda]

The egregious damage poaching does to wildlife numbers aside, the idea of MYOB has zero merit when the person you trusted implicates you in their crimes without any warning by making you an unknown accomplice, Its lower than lying to do that to someone.

 

[nwwoodsman]

The egregious damage poaching does to wildlife numbers aside, the idea of MYOB has zero merit when the person you trusted implicates you in their crimes without any warning by making you an unknown accomplice, Its lower than lying to do that to someone.

8 pages and 155 comments later and someone gets it

 

[Member 52301]

I wouldn't guess that. I would guess he's a guy who doesn't normally care about hunting, but currently has an elk problem.

I would NOT have guessed that he was a felon from the gitgo.

I have known people (Males and females.) who ONLY owned handguns and NO rifles or shotguns.

I have known people who ONLY owned a rifle or a shotgun too. Especially some old ladies back in farm/lake country - Great Lakes region and on the East Coast. Single OLD ladies who never married and widows too. Living alone on a homestead - farm or just out in the country on a smaller parcel if they sold a lot of their acreage over time.

~~~

Side note:

We know some ranchers that come from various families just like I knew farmers back in the Great Lakes region and on the East Coast.

Some raise cattle and other animals.

Some raise cattle and sheep out here (MT) but don't raise chickens, goats, etc. too.

Many of them have their own horses back east and board some too. Same out here.

Now with ALL of that said about their animals and living on LOTS of land not just back east but out here - living on THOUSANDS of acres here in MT, NO kidding, some of the biggest land owners in one county alone - only one man out of the family MAY HUNT if he has time but he is not heavy duty INTO HUNTING.

The other one in the same family does NOT even carry a gun AND I don't think that my husband has seen that one ever shoot a GUN. Even though that one rancher has had to CHASE OFF TRESPASSERS off of the Dad's land. NOT nice people who accidently got LOST too. Some of them LIVE around their ranch, they still TRESPASS, and some do not live in the area but they go ON their land even though it is posted.

But that one rancher who CARRIES NO GUN, concealed or open, has gone on some hunts with my husband on THEIR OWN LAND, VERY NICE PEOPLE, and they are like family to him.

When that one rancher goes on hunts with my husband - that person WALKS or RIDES ALONG and HIKES in with him but does NOT shoot or have a GUN on their body! Some places UP and way out there are extremely remote and in specific areas - DANGEROUS TERRAIN unless you know the land well. My husband does KNOW their land well and so do the owners of course.

That person who does NOT ever carry a GUN of any type on their body is NOT a felon. That person who does NOT shoot even target shoot is the same person and NOT a felon.

That person-rancher comes from a LONG LINE of MT ranchers. Only one person in that family is SORT of into guns but really NOT into guns as many of us are.

The old man/Dad owns a gun. I don't think that his old wife owns a gun or shot much. But HER own farm family from back east did hunt and enjoyed their guns from past conversations that I have had with her especially YEARS ago.

The farmers that I knew all around me in farm/lake country did hunt. Great Lakes region. The ones on the East Coast did hunt too. Mid Atlantic region to Maine.

I had some of the best moose meat cooked 2 ways in Maine on one trip alone years ago with my late husband. Many trips to Maine too.

Now, some of you gals and guys may not 'get this' but here goes.

I actually KNEW more people who were INTO GUNS in the Great Lakes region and on the East Coast than MANY of the people that I know even in THIS STATE of MT.

My close friend (Like a nephew to me.) who lives NORTH by one cross road of my former house that I built with my late husband got a deer on HIS LAND fairly close to my old big brick house. The deer used to hang around my ONE acre of land out of hundreds of acres of land due to the CROPS that were planted all around me PLUS due to my OWN former conservation plantings for WILDLIFE and SPECIFIC BIRDS.

The ponds around me BACK THERE with the Great Lakes not far from my former house... we had/have tons of migrating ducks and geese back there too. Close to Canada by water too.

Just like what I have here (MT) due to the ponds and rivers around here plus due to what I planted for WILDLIFE and birds and the open land all behind me all of the way down, down and down to one river out of three rivers in this area alone. And I live in town.

We have tons of wildlife including some bears even though I live 'in town' BUT I do live in a bear corridor zone. We have BEAR poop in the yard too not just deer and other poop aka SCAT as my husband says. There is a special place right behind my water rights ditch to the east that I CLEANED UP and replanted where the does like to have their babies too. Every single year since I built this house - one female or another one has given birth to one fawn and in some years - twins. Last year, one of them had twins. The bucks or as I say BOY DEER (LOL) hang around here too.

They, females and males, are eating the snowberries, choke cherry and the Lolo National Forest planted from SEED blended grass that I planted BIG TIME right now.
They hang around here a LOT and since I do NOT use poison or SPRAY or any of that crapola on my land - all of the wildlife come here to feast compared to my neighbors who use weed killer 'STUFF' on their fancy turf lawns.

I like to watch them - ALL of the various types of wildlife. Including some mountain lions that go through here and by the water rights ditch.

The DEER are not afraid of my husband or me. I did not like it when they ATE my rose bushes and I did NOT get my roses eaten back east since there were so many farm planted CROPS around my former house. So I had to change my plantings around after the first year that I lived here and built this house here in MT.

The bears are out big time by the range too. My husband talked to one about 150 feet away from him last week. He was just moving his truck, he was inside of it and he stopped to watch one - a male about 250 pounds. NOT a huge one yet. We love to watch bears and we respect them too. I have had 7 BEARS in one day sightings in the past with him too. Interesting days for sure.

And some of you may laugh but I have always TALKED to animals not only to my former late dogs. My late husband and my MT husband talked/talk to animals and NOT only to dogs.

Disclaimer: I do NOT hunt but I have gone along on a couple of hunts. Usually for grouse and mainly for the SCENERY, RIDE and HIKE. I am NOT into freezing my butt off for elk, deer, etc. for hours on end.

I would rather SWIM or fish.

Cate

 

[Member 52301]

I would NOT have guessed that he was a felon from the gitgo.

I have known people (Males and females.) who ONLY owned handguns and NO rifles or shotguns.

I have known people who ONLY owned a rifle or a shotgun too. Especially some old ladies back in farm/lake country - Great Lakes region and on the East Coast. Single OLD ladies who never married and widows too. Living alone on a homestead - farm or just out in the country on a smaller parcel if they sold a lot of their acreage over time.

~~~

Side note:

We know some ranchers that come from various families just like I knew farmers back in the Great Lakes region and on the East Coast.

Some raise cattle and other animals.

Some raise cattle and sheep out here (MT) but don't raise chickens, goats, etc. too.

Many of them have their own horses back east and board some too. Same out here.

Now with ALL of that said about their animals and living on LOTS of land not just back east but out here - living on THOUSANDS of acres here in MT, NO kidding, some of the biggest land owners in one county alone - only one man out of the family MAY HUNT if he has time but he is not heavy duty INTO HUNTING.

The other one in the same family does NOT even carry a gun AND I don't think that my husband has seen that one ever shoot a GUN. Even though that one rancher has had to CHASE OFF TRESPASSERS off of the Dad's land. NOT nice people who accidently got LOST too. Some of them LIVE around their ranch, they still TRESPASS, and some do not live in the area but they go ON their land even though it is posted.

But that one rancher who CARRIES NO GUN, concealed or open, has gone on some hunts with my husband on THEIR OWN LAND, VERY NICE PEOPLE, and they are like family to him.

When that one rancher goes on hunts with my husband - that person WALKS or RIDES ALONG and HIKES in with him but does NOT shoot or have a GUN on their body! Some places UP and way out there are extremely remote and in specific areas - DANGEROUS TERRAIN unless you know the land well. My husband does KNOW their land well and so do the owners of course.

That person who does NOT ever carry a GUN of any type on their body is NOT a felon. That person who does NOT shoot even target shoot is the same person and NOT a felon.

That person-rancher comes from a LONG LINE of MT ranchers. Only one person in that family is SORT of into guns but really NOT into guns as many of us are.

The old man/Dad owns a gun. I don't think that his old wife owns a gun or shot much. But HER own farm family from back east did hunt and enjoyed their guns from past conversations that I have had with her especially YEARS ago.

The farmers that I knew all around me in farm/lake country did hunt. Great Lakes region. The ones on the East Coast did hunt too. Mid Atlantic region to Maine.

I had some of the best moose meat cooked 2 ways in Maine on one trip alone years ago with my late husband. Many trips to Maine too.

Now, some of you gals and guys may not 'get this' but here goes.

I actually KNEW more people who were INTO GUNS in the Great Lakes region and on the East Coast than MANY of the people that I know even in THIS STATE of MT.

My close friend (Like a nephew to me.) who lives NORTH by one cross road of my former house that I built with my late husband got a deer on HIS LAND fairly close to my old big brick house. The deer used to hang around my ONE acre of land out of hundreds of acres of land due to the CROPS that were planted all around me PLUS due to my OWN former conservation plantings for WILDLIFE and SPECIFIC BIRDS.

The ponds around me BACK THERE with the Great Lakes not far from my former house... we had/have tons of migrating ducks and geese back there too. Close to Canada by water too.

Just like what I have here (MT) due to the ponds and rivers around here plus due to what I planted for WILDLIFE and birds and the open land all behind me all of the way down, down and down to one river out of three rivers in this area alone. And I live in town.

We have tons of wildlife including some bears even though I live 'in town' BUT I do live in a bear corridor zone. We have BEAR poop in the yard too not just deer and other poop aka SCAT as my husband says. There is a special place right behind my water rights ditch to the east that I CLEANED UP and replanted where the does like to have their babies too. Every single year since I built this house - one female or another one has given birth to one fawn and in some years - twins. Last year, one of them had twins. The bucks or as I say BOY DEER (LOL) hang around here too.

They, females and males, are eating the snowberries, choke cherry and the Lolo National Forest planted from SEED blended grass that I planted BIG TIME right now.
They hang around here a LOT and since I do NOT use poison or SPRAY or any of that crapola on my land - all of the wildlife come here to feast compared to my neighbors who use weed killer 'STUFF' on their fancy turf lawns.

I like to watch them - ALL of the various types of wildlife. Including some mountain lions that go through here and by the water rights ditch.

The DEER are not afraid of my husband or me. I did not like it when they ATE my rose bushes and I did NOT get my roses eaten back east since there were so many farm planted CROPS around my former house. So I had to change my plantings around after the first year that I lived here and built this house here in MT.

The bears are out big time by the range too. My husband talked to one about 150 feet away from him last week. He was just moving his truck, he was inside of it and he stopped to watch one - a male about 250 pounds. NOT a huge one yet. We love to watch bears and we respect them too. I have had 7 BEARS in one day sightings in the past with him too. Interesting days for sure.

And some of you may laugh but I have always TALKED to animals not only to my former late dogs. My late husband and my MT husband talked/talk to animals and NOT only to dogs.

Disclaimer: I do NOT hunt but I have gone along on a couple of hunts. Usually for grouse and mainly for the SCENERY, RIDE and HIKE. I am NOT into freezing my butt off for elk, deer, etc. for hours on end.

I would rather SWIM or fish.

Cate

PS:

My MT husband has gone out to do pest control for a couple of SUPER close friends and ranchers out here.

One of the old ranchers is dead now so he NO longer goes on his land or is needed. He was a single old man - never married. The LAST ONE living on the homestead.

Last week, he went for gophers and one other pest so the cattle do not break or hurt their legs.

He is going out on Sunday again to help some more.

He has been asked to help two ranchers many times over the years to help track mountain lions too. NOT this year. In the PAST.

The wildlife people, special division of them, whatever they are called out here (CRS now!) were told by the ranchers, TWO families for sure, that they were having problems with the mountain lions and bears BIG TIME. This was/is NO joke.

Dead cows, dead sheep, etc.

The ranchers asked my husband to help with the mountain lions - tracking and shooting them which IS legal however they do it here in MT.

The wildlife people set up TRAPS for the bears all over in specific areas.

One of the older dogs out there used to TREE if that is the proper word some of the mountain lions.

I showed him this thread the other day. He said that they call it such and such in MT but I will be DIPPED NOW if I remember his exact words or all of the LONG DETAILS that he told me when it came to pest control and other words.

OUT here, the mountain lions and bears (Black bear and grizzly bears.) are doing BIG time damage to the ELK and DEER. There are FAR LESS ELK in the last 20 years according to the ranchers who were BORN/RAISED and lived and still live on their acreage. So it is NOT just what my husband sees.

Sure you will see HERDS OF ELK going down to Ravalli County, all over Missoula County, Granite County, up in Lincoln County right below BC, Canada., etc. BUT it is NOTHING like what it used to be. NOT for the elk.

I know specific areas where the ELK hang out on some trips and I was not even born or raised here. I only lived here for 20 years this year - later spring.

That goes for moose which is NOT plentiful compared to BACK EAST. BUT in specific areas including where I camped and stayed in the small log cabin on a private ranch (Sapphire Mountains.) BUTT up to wilderness - it was a moose hangout for sure. LOL

I followed one younger male moose UP a lonely mountain road one night with a friend and it stayed right in the MIDDLE of the winding - lonely road. ALL of the way, to my tiny log cabin that I rented. Another old big one used to hang out around Grizzly Creek too.

Plus there was one that hung out VERY CLOSE by the cabin/camp site and when I heard it running at first - I thought that an ELEPHANT was running towards me on one of my HIKES alone on the mountain road. But it was that one crazy moose and when I saw it - it was pretty cool just like the one in Maine close to some waterfalls MANY YEARS ago. Maine time - I had my walking shoes on and so did my late husband. Our two friends had their feet in the ice cold water.

MOOSE can be very dangerous. Respect them!

When you head to Idaho over towards the Lochsa, etc. - there are a few moose that hang out on the MT side every year. You will see them in Idaho of course but in one SPECIAL SPOT if you know where to LOOK - you will see a couple of them by one beautiful piece of land in MT.

I liked/like to swim in the Hot Springs (MT) and take a drive up to the Idaho border and have a snack and a thermos of coffee by the log cabin on the border. They have a heated bathroom in the winter too!

CHRONIC WASTING DISEASE is a HUGE and GROWING PROBLEM with the deer population too. IN other animals too. ELK included.

My husband answered an ELK survey on the telephone the other day too.

You can see some ELK HERDS out of my windows and in my yard - different directions in this valley. Different times of year too. THEY CLOSE OFF some of the hiking areas every single year for a time frame too. To save and help the ELK. You can SEE THEM at a distance and especially if my HUSBAND POINTS THEM out to me. Plus when I use HIS scopes and other binoculars.

ADDED more.

Cate

 

[oregonferret]

A while back I read or heard somewhere that poaching or "illegal taking" of deer and elk counts for about what lawful hunters take. Deer and elk numbers are in a serious decline. The average odds of a hunter in Oregon is about 15% success rate. Think about what hunting would be like if we could theoretically eliminate poaching.

Eliminate big city politics, starving out the countryside, and serious poverty.
And walla, it's fixed...................... everyone gets a deer for fun..

Some people have to poach to eat.
It's never gonna change , and anyone who complains about tags or quota's has never been hungry, poor and had to feed a family.
And Damn be the the consequences , kid's gotta eat.

That's most of Vernonia, so F-NW woodsman.. with a big Snitch fingeer...............

*** Vernonia is poor as a community in whole. ***

I live here , you live here. NO ONE OWNS ANYTHING including animal's, God put them here, for EVERYONE while we are alive.
The king owns nothing, unless you are a slave..........

Make someone a criminal with no way out...Guess what, They are gonna forget the rules to survive.

GOD SAVE THE KING!!!!!! for all you wig's out there.......................

 

[Bobbygun]

anyone who complains about tags or quota's has never been hungry, poor and had to feed a family.

You are wrong on this one. When I was young, we were quite poor.

I'm going to go out on a limb here and predict that you are okay with trespassing on private property as well. After all, those landowners don't own those deer.

Folks can justify just about anything to themselves. There are tons of poor folks that don't poach or hunt yet somehow manage to survive.