Money Market Pawn WON'T Hold Firearm in Private Transfer While BGC is In Queue

[orygun]

no, its my understanding thats when the registration takes place.

What's this "registration" you speak of? Guns are not registered in this state.

Also, the 4473 is not complete until the background check is complete and the gun is physically transferred to the 4473 applicant. At that time the buyer signs the final line on the 4473. If the background check fails, the gun is not transferred.
Also, if the buyer fails the background check, it's still the seller's gun. I believe if it's left at the FFL, then the owner is subject to his own background check.

This whole "system" is deeply flawed, but that's another story.

 

[Koda]

What's this "registration" you speak of? Guns are not registered in this state.

Also, the 4473 is not complete until the background check is complete and the gun is physically transferred to the 4473 applicant. At that time the buyer signs the final line on the 4473. If the background check fails, the gun is not transferred.
Also, if the buyer fails the background check, it's still the seller's gun. I believe if it's left at the FFL, then the owner is subject to his own background check.

This whole "system" is deeply flawed, but that's another story.

OSP keeps a registry for 5 years of every BGC.
If the buyer passes the BGC the gun is now registered to him, they own it now.

 

[Andy54Hawken]

What's this "registration" you speak of? Guns are not registered in this state.

Also, the 4473 is not complete until the background check is complete and the gun is physically transferred to the 4473 applicant. At that time the buyer signs the final line on the 4473. If the background check fails, the gun is not transferred.
Also, if the buyer fails the background check, it's still the seller's gun. I believe if it's left at the FFL, then the owner is subject to his own background check.

This whole "system" is deeply flawed, but that's another story.

True.

However something to consider here....

If....the form 4473 was only about if Andy54Hawken was legally able to purchase / own / transfer a firearm.....
Then why does it also require the make , model and serial number of the firearm in question...?
Since that has nothing at all to do with whether or not I can meet the legal requirements of owning a firearm.

We may not have an actual , official registration of firearms...but I would argue that there is a de facto registration of firearms at the least.
Andy

 

[Alexx1401]

Why couldnt the FFL just put the gun up for sale? Isnt it theirs at this point?

"could they"? Yes. Where the problem would come in is seller and buyer agree to price, say $400. Seller has his $400 and leaves. Now buyer is denied and is out his $400 and no gun. FFL now has said gun. Can they sell it for $400 + enough to make it a "consignment" sale? if not and they say only give original buyer back say $300, he is of course going to be pissed. I can fully see why the shop is just going to take a hands off approach.The $30 fee is a good one. Those not happy with this option can of course search for a shop that will do it differently. Again sadly the shop is not the one who did this, voters did now shop has to live with the results and do what they can. This is why I no longer sell guns. Have a bunch of them I would just as soon sell but, its just not worth it to me sadly. Meanwhile criminal scum can of course just go buy anything they want any damn time they want and don't care.

 

[Koda]

We may not have an actual , official registration of firearms...but I would argue that there is a de facto registration of firearms at the least.

Oregon doesnt have a registration law for existing ownership, but OSP keeps a registry of BGCs for at least 5 years.

 

[BDA.45]

Same.

Possibly still happens......

 

[Alexx1401]

Oregon doesnt have a registration law for existing ownership, but OSP keeps a registry of BGCs for at least 5 years.

I VERY much doubt that info is actually "gone" after that 5 year period is up. Suspect that info is kept forever even when they claim its not.

 

[washagonian]

Regarding the make, model and serial number of the firearm being recorded on the 4473 form, I was told a long time ago at an FFL (can't remember which) there were two "official" reasons for this.

1.) to verify that the firearm could be legally transferred - e.g., that it was not an NFA regulated firearm requiring a tax stamp.
2.) that as part of the BGC, the Oregon State Police check a database of reported stolen firearms to be sure that firearm has not been reported stolen.

If I remember correctly, firearms that have been stolen, or lost, or used in a felony, can be reported to NCIC (National Crime Information Center). I believe that in Oregon the OSP check NCIC to see if the firearm has been reported.

I realize that the 4473 is a national form. I don't know if other states check NCIC for information about the weapon being transferred by the 4473.

I do NOT disagree with those who say that this is a defacto registration. It certainly looks that way and functions as such. "If it walks like a duck ...."

TWYLALTR

Cheers.

 

[billdeserthills]

How about a legal document between the buyer, seller and FFL stating that if the buyer does not pass the BGC then the seller keeps the funds and the FFL gets to put the firearm on consignment, the buyer gets paid when it sells. It may sound harsh but the buyer should know if he can pass the BGC...

I bought a gun on Gun Broker one time, the seller had a '100% fee upon failure to transfer' message but I figured like you do and since I had never encountered a 'failure to transfer' before, I paid. The seller turned out to be an FFL and he requested I fill out the 4473 and mail it back to him, where upon he announced that I had been denied and therefore failed to transfer and he was going to keep 100% of my money


Seemed rather unfair to me, so I called a friend who was a FFL, he sent a copy of his FFL to the first FFL's address and requested that my gun be mailed to him and I payed the freight. I had actually been denied right out of the blue due to a Fed paperwork error.

Surprise!

 

[raftman]

I think this has been discussed for a couple of other shops that adopted the same policy. Ultimately it seems like there is no right answer for every scenario because the laws, such as they are, aren't designed to work with the with the kind of mess our politicians have created.

If the FFL holds, they risk being caught between a seller that can't/won't return the money and a buyer who can't take possession of the gun. If they don't hold, there's allegedly some other potential legal liability they open themselves up to. I've heard FFL's that do hold make such remarks as, "I don't know how they get away with not holding."

 

[Alexx1401]

I think this has been discussed for a couple of other shops that adopted the same policy. Ultimately it seems like there is no right answer for every scenario because the laws, such as they are, aren't designed to work with the with the kind of mess our politicians have created.

If the FFL holds, they risk being caught between a seller that can't/won't return the money and a buyer who can't take possession of the gun. If they don't hold, there's allegedly some other potential legal liability they open themselves up to. I've heard FFL's that do hold make such remarks as, "I don't know how they get away with not holding."

The last time I sold a gun here the buyer and I met, he liked, shop ran him, came back delayed. So shop sent me home with my gun. Couple days later they called us both back since he had cleared. Now days since there is going to be a wait of a couple weeks no matter what suspect few if any shops are going to be willing to hold the guns. As usual criminals are not slowed down at all, only those who actually follow the law feel any pain from this crap.

 

[hongkong2]

I VERY much doubt that info is actually "gone" after that 5 year period is up. Suspect that info is kept forever even when they claim its not.

That info is immediately sucked up and stored by Big Brother so it doesn't matter if OSP or anyone else deletes it from their database. When a FFL shuts down all his paperwork in digitized and fed into that big new building in Utah.... A few years ago some newly digitized records from the early 60's out of California came back to haunt me, fortunately I still had the documents that proved them wrong and was able to clear things up. Digital ID and Currency will be the last nails in our coffin.