Private party firearm transfer denied

[Koda]

Pretty sure that is not how it works

Not certain which part you mean here. but if the check is denied and the FFL cant reach either party, doesnt he own the gun at that point anyways? If not, what is he supposed to do with it?

 

[gmerkt]

In Warshington state, we've had recent changes along this line. The mandatory 10 working day waiting period. Never mind problems of "passing" a BGC. This process isn't much of an issue, aside from pain in the butt, if buying through a licensed dealer with a physical retail store.

The part for me that is a deal breaker is buying at a gun show. Way it works at the WAC gun shows, the dealer is in the middle holding the gun. So, as a buyer, I turn my cash over to the seller and he leaves. The dealer gets to hold the gun for the waiting period. I walk out of the show venue without money and without gun. After the passage of the waiting period, all the people that bought guns from that dealer on that day meet up in a parking lot somewhere to take possession. Which might be many miles away. All those guns belonging to all the buyers being collectively handled doesn't sound like a good recipe either for bumps and scratches or overall security. Heaven help the lot if the FFL dealer gets sick or drops dead.

Dealers with a store can flake, too. One time I had a gun I left on consignment. I hadn't heard from them nor gone by in a while. So one evening, I decided to stop there on my way home from work. Which was a real stroke of providence, because the store was dark inside with a "for lease" sign in the window. I got out to take a look and the owner was inside, about to leave for the last time, clearing out his last stuff. I got my money but I've wondered if this guy had any plans of calling me if I hadn't button-holed him. Because he had already sold the gun. Nice Smith & Wesson Model 586, bright nickel finish, four in. bbl.

One thing I took away from my experience noted in the last paragraph. Since then when I've decided to dispose of a gun this way, I've never left more than one gun at a time on consignment sale with an FFL.

 

[DirectDrive]

This thread is mental masturbation. Reminds me of Cliff Claven.
Options:
A: FFL sells it and give a portion of the proceeds to the denied buyer at 60% of selling price, or as determined by store policy. They didn't pay for that gun.
B: If they were nice, they would consider it consignment and only take 15% plus FFL and storage fees, rest to buyer.
C: The FFL is a total dyck and doesn't reimburse denied buyer at all... The denied buyer sues the FFL, and the judge decides what is fair or per contract signed outlining the what ifs at time of attempted transfer.

If only,... oh, you know a gun forum like this. Had. an actual FFL that would chime in here. What are the odds there would be none.Weird.
we wouldnt have to speculate. m________e

 

[raftman]

I'm not sure I understand the why here. Presumably it's the FFL that let the OP know the buyer failed, but why? What did they expect the OP to do? Did the FFL not explain what the usual/expected next steps were? If they didn't expect anything, then why bother letting you know at all? Just a "by the way, Bob failed that BGC from 3 months ago."? Ok, so what?

Does it mean the FFL gets a free gun? Maybe eventually. I think there's an appeals process for those that fail BGC's and the FFL may be willing to hold while the buyer goes through that, but if that fails or takes too long their policies might allow them to take actual ownership in the same way that a mechanic might if you don't pick up your vehicle and pay for their service in a timely manner, or they may offer some sort consignment arrangement.

 

[Koda]

All i know now is I can totally see why any FFL would refuse to hold onto the gun thru the process.

 

[TTSX]

A whole lot of people who think they're right and very few FFLs in this thread

 

[Alexx1401]

A whole lot of people who think they're right and very few FFLs in this thread

Sadly here in WA they have made such a damn mess that it is going to take a while for many to be able to get a handle on just how much of this is going to be handled. Private sales were already such a PITA that many were just no longer willing to bother, like me. Now? With the additional wait time even after the BGC clears?? Doubt there is going to be much at all now.
We do VERY much need some local FFL's to start saying how they will handle these. That information would be great for those in WA who still want to try to make sales. I do suspect those who want to sell may be using shops that will sell on consignment now. Really sucks that the criminal scum can buy what they want when they want and only those who follow the law have to jump through multiple hoops and lose money on the sale.

 

[trekkerpaul]

From the ffl I have dealt with that hold the gun, if the buyer fails the bgc, they want the gun to go back to the seller, who would have to do their own bgc to get it back. Seems odd the buyer would not respond to the offer of a refund unless the buyer knows they aren't able to own a weapon. I would talk candidly to the ffl. In theory, you have been paid, no longer your issue. What happens to the gun isn't your issue. If the buyer can't pass the bgc, then it's up to them and the ffl to resolve. I could also see the scenario where the ffl wants you to take the gun back. I would assume this would involve a bgc and fees.

 

[Koda]

Why cant it be as simple as this...

The seller just tells the FFL that if the BGC fails the gun is his if the buyer doesnt contact the seller within 30 days for a refund minus BGC fee for the seller to get his gun back.

 

[buckshot123]

Question for the folks who might of found themselves in a similar situation. Over 3 months ago I sold a firearm to a individual who's background check was ultimately canceled for unknown reasons to me. Private party transfer was done threw a FFl dealer and where its still being held to this day. I've offered to refund the money and put it back in the safe without reply. My question is, what happens to the firearm if not picked up and who's name is it still under?

 

[Mikej]

This thread is mental masturbation. Reminds me of Cliff Claven.

And The O.P. hasn't even been back since 20 minutes after posting to enjoy some of that masturbation!

 

[raftman]

From the ffl I have dealt with that hold the gun, if the buyer fails the bgc, they want the gun to go back to the seller, who would have to do their own bgc to get it back. Seems odd the buyer would not respond to the offer of a refund unless the buyer knows they aren't able to own a weapon. I would talk candidly to the ffl. In theory, you have been paid, no longer your issue. What happens to the gun isn't your issue. If the buyer can't pass the bgc, then it's up to them and the ffl to resolve. I could also see the scenario where the ffl wants you to take the gun back. I would assume this would involve a bgc and fees.

The question that naturally comes about is what happens if the seller won't or can't come get their gun back and return the money to the buyer? Suppose they already spent the money and no longer have it, or maybe they just plain don't want to?

 

[RVTECH]

The question that naturally comes about is what happens if the seller won't or can't come get their gun back and return the money to the buyer?

I can think of a lot of things but I suspect the BUYER, if unable to contact the seller, would target the FFL for a refund.

The probable rational would be (for the buyer) the FFL now 'owns' the gun and therefore is obligated to refund the money.

I can see why an FFL would NOT want to hold a gun. It puts them in the middle if the buyer does not pass the BGC.

I could be wrong but I suspect its possible FFLs will eventually stop doing transfers. What started out as 'workable' is now beginning to reveal 'cracks' and 'holes' in the system as more people are trying to buy guns and problems arise with delayed or failed BGCs.

 

[Lazyfaire]

Popcorn anyone?

 

[Alexx1401]

I can think of a lot of things but I suspect the BUYER, if unable to contact the seller, would target the FFL for a refund.

Target them for what? They would look like fools if they tried to take this to court. FFL now legally owns that gun. Suspect most if not all will offer to flat out buy it at the price they pay for guns someone walks in with, or at best sell on commission. Lot of FFL's are making good money doing transfers now since all sales here have to involve them. The one who tried to buy a gun and can't legally own it is just SOL. They best play nice with the FFL hoping to get some of their money back.
With the new wait times here now suspect there will not be nearly as many sales done from one person to another but will still be just as many people ordering guns. Which is the same thing. Every time I order a gun I am just buying it from whoever currently owns it by paying and having it sent to my FFL who then transfers it to me, for a fee of course. Easy money for the FFL. Rather than having inventory they just get guns in and send them on out for the fee. Of course now they will have to hold the damn things for a couple weeks but, every gun that comes in this way was already paid for when it got to them. They don't have their capital tied up in it.

 

[Lazyfaire]

Target them for what? They would look like fools if they tried to take this to court. FFL now legally owns that gun. Suspect most if not all will offer to flat out buy it at the price they pay for guns someone walks in with, or at best sell on commission. Lot of FFL's are making good money doing transfers now since all sales here have to involve them. The one who tried to buy a gun and can't legally own it is just SOL. They best play nice with the FFL hoping to get some of their money back.
With the new wait times here now suspect there will not be nearly as many sales done from one person to another but will still be just as many people ordering guns. Which is the same thing. Every time I order a gun I am just buying it from whoever currently owns it by paying and having it sent to my FFL who then transfers it to me, for a fee of course. Easy money for the FFL. Rather than having inventory they just get guns in and send them on out for the fee. Of course now they will have to hold the damn things for a couple weeks but, every gun that comes in this way was already paid for when it got to them. They don't have their capital tied up in it.

Was in my FFL this afternoon and asked them about this scenerio. (BTW I am in Texas). They agree that essentially the buyer is out of luck. They said that (supposedly) it is a person's responsibility to know that they would/would not pass a BGC. Once the item is entered into the FFL's 'book' it belongs to the FFL until an accepted BGC is passed. All of which I get and understand but still seems the buyer is bubblegummed!
Seems like there should be some avenue to satisfy all parties,

 

[Koda]

My only concern is for those who get a false denial. Not everyone knows if or when that can happen to them.

 

[Lazyfaire]

My only concern is for those who get a false denial. Not everyone knows if or when that can happen to them.

Totally agree with you on this. To me, even if he did fail bc he's an idiot, still no reason he should lose all his money. Technically if the item belongs to the buyer any monies received if they should sell it, less any fees due, should go back to the buyer. False denial or not. Just my 2 cents

 

[raftman]

Another question: if the person fails the BGC (and it's a genuine fail, not some sort of error), is that person not lying on the 4473? Could it then be argued they're lucky that the $ is all that they're out?

 

[The Heretic]

Seems like there should be some avenue to satisfy all parties,

I would think that at that point, the FFL should be amenable to return the firearm to the seller, at which point the seller would be amenable to return the funds to the buyer.