measure 114 passed, what's next?

[Yarome]

What no one wants to say out loud... 114 is most certainly going to cause a massive resurgence in "illegal" P2P sales/purchases. I have absolutely no doubt of that. Pushing otherwise law abiding citizens into gray areas they might not otherwise choose to tread.

You can't vote away a right. It will persist above board or below it. The modern day version of prohibition.

The only thing accomplished by the woke today was in creating more criminals.

 

[arakboss]

What no one wants to say out loud... 114 is most certainly going to cause a massive resurgence in "illegal" P2P sales/purchases. I have absolutely no doubt of that. Pushing otherwise law abiding citizens into gray areas they might not otherwise choose to tread.

You can't vote away a right. It will persist above board or below it. The modern day version of prohibition.

The only thing accomplished by the woke today was in creating more criminals.

I hope it does but I doubt it will. The private party background check law is more costly and burdensome than Measure 114 as far as transfers go. And I haven't seen an abundance of p2p sales.

 

[RedRover]

What no one wants to say out loud... 114 is most certainly going to cause a massive resurgence in "illegal" P2P sales/purchases. I have absolutely no doubt of that. Pushing otherwise law abiding citizens into gray areas they might not otherwise choose to tread.

You can't vote away a right. It will persist above board or below it. The modern day version of prohibition.

The only thing accomplished by the woke today was in creating more criminals.

C'mon, there's never been an example that I can think of where the prohibition of something led to a burgeoning black-market that facilitated organized criminal enterprises to flourish.

Can you?


Seriously though, I just had a vision of a guy stepping out of the shadows to peel back his trench coat displaying his wares...

"Hey Pal, wanna buy a PMAG?"

 

[Yarome]

I hope it does but I doubt it will. The private party background check law is more costly and burdensome than Measure 114 as far as transfers go. And I haven't seen an abundance of p2p sales.

Purely from my own perspective... requiring a BGC for P2P certainly slowed down my purchases, but doing an FFL transfer wasn't overly burdensome and required nothing special or foreplanning. I did one or two since then, but 114... forget about it. I'm not going to expend all that time, cost and effort just to be granted the privilege that maybe one day I might choose to walk into a shop and buy something on a whim.

In that way... I see 114 as being exponentially more burdensome and costly than the private party BGC restriction.

It won't suprise me to see those classes and range time hitting at least into the $100-$200 range.. and easily more. That alone tacks an incredibly heafty "tax" onto any single firearm purchase. A $25 BGC and transfer fee for P2P... in comparison... is nothin.

 

[Yarome]

Seriously though, I just had a vision of a guy stepping out of the shadows to peel back his trench coat displaying his wares...

"Hey Pal, wanna buy a PMAG?"

Jake? Is that you?? I thought you said Saturday... under the bridge....

 

[arakboss]

Purely from my own perspective... requiring a BGC for P2P certainly slowed down my purchases, but doing an FFL transfer wasn't overly burdensome and required nothing special or foreplanning. I did one or two since then, but 114... forget about it. I'm not going to expend all that time, cost and effort just to be granted the privilege that maybe one day I might choose to walk into a shop and buy something on a whim.

In that way... I see 114 as being exponentially more burdensome and costly than the private party BGC restriction.

It won't suprise me to see those classes and range time hitting at least into the $100-$200 range.. and easily more. That alone tacks an incredibly heafty "tax" onto any single firearm purchase. A $25 BGC and transfer fee for P2P... in comparison... is nothin.

Speaking from my personal experiences, I have spent many hundreds probably thousands on background checks for private party transfers. I have wasted hundreds of hours filling out forms, waiting on FFLs, scheduling inconvenient meet ups because of FFL hours, etc. I know others have as well. Despite all that I have had very few opportunities to do a transfer outside the system. I would be very surprised if p2p sales become more frequent but we may never know if we aren't one party or the other.

 

[Yarome]

Despite all that I have had very few opportunities to do a transfer outside the system. I would be very surprised if p2p sales become more frequent but we may never know if we aren't one party or the other.

That's the thing.. isn't it. All I can say is... you need to find a better group of buddy's.

I think where it might make a difference is when it's not really that big of a deal to just meet up and do an FFL transfer it makes it easier to just say, "well, let's do it right." Better safe than sorry.

When it may be a year or more before it's even a possibility to sale/buy... and even then... a whole crap ton of folks won't have gone through with getting the purchase permit yet... if they plan to at all... what happens during that time? By some magical happenstance do all sales/purchases suddenly stop for a year or more... or... since an FFL isn't even an option... will more folks just be more inclinded to say, "F'it! I won't tell if you won't"?

 

[arakboss]

That's the thing.. isn't it. All I can say is... you need to find a better group of buddy's.

I think where it might make a difference is when it's not really that big of a deal to just meet up and do an FFL transfer it makes it easier to just say, "well, let's do it right." Better safe than sorry.

When it may be a year or more before it's even a possibility to sale/buy... and even then... a whole crap ton of folks won't have gone through with getting the purchase permit yet... if they plan to at all... what happens during that time? By some magical happenstance do all sales/purchases suddenly stop for a year or more... or... since an FFL isn't even an option... will more folks just be more inclinded to say, "I won't tell if you won't"?

Imagine somebody sells me a firearm outside the system and I sell it to somebody else, outside the system, who uses it in a crime. Then the firearm is traced back to the guy I bought it from. What do you think he will tell the authorities when they track him down as the owner? Can I trust that he won't lead them to me? No I wouldn't trust him.

 

[Knebel]

Man was I pissed when I saw this today. More so since I'm not even allowed to vote as a permanent resident!? I think a stay will be issued and then it will be deemed unconstitutional. Thing might take forever but at least they wont be passing mag limits and such during that time. So see it as a win since they just blocked themselfs with their own effort lol

 

[Yarome]

Imagine somebody sells me a firearm outside the system and I sell it to somebody else, outside the system, who uses it in a crime. Then the firearm is traced back to the guy I bought it from. What do you think he will tell the authorities when they track him down as the owner? Can I trust that he won't lead them to me? No I wouldn't trust him.

Well... you DO know you don't buy a firearm from the original registered owner... right? Or one with a mfg date post 941... right?

That's what I heard from my friends, second cousins, sisters, neighbors, nephews, uncles, grandfather, anyway.

 

[arakboss]

Well... you DO know you don't buy a firearm from the original registered owner... right? Or one with a mfg date post 941... right?

That's what I heard from my friends, second cousins, sisters, nephews, uncles, grandfather, anyway.

OK now I know p2p aren't going to be happening. If I have to do detective work to make sure the firearm isn't tied to the person I am buying it from or somebody that is still alive? Maybe if you bought a stolen gun and then the seller passed away you might have less chance of it getting traced back to you but as Brandon would say, "come on man"

 

[Yarome]

OK now I know p2p aren't going to be happening. If I have to do detective work to make sure the firearm isn't tied to the person I am buying it from or somebody that is still alive? Maybe if you bought a stolen gun and then the seller passed away you might have less chance of it getting traced back to you but as Brandon would say, "come on man"

It's a personal choice, but it's not necessary to go to such dramatic extremes. Everyone is different, but just with my own collection... I would guess a good 98% are not originally registered to me. The law doesn't require that I keep paperwork on the purchases... so I haven't... and I honestly can't recall the names of the people I bought them from.

There is always a minute risk a firearm can be stolen and used in a crime. You might even get a call about it, but if it's reported stolen and there is no evidence you where in any way connected to the crime... what's to worry about? You have the right to remain silent and are innocent until proven guilty.

I'm not encouraging or condoning it... mainly tongue in cheek... but simply saying that I know it still happens and I'm quite sure it will continue. Especially if 114 makes all legal avenues to sale/purchase within the state illegal for any great length of time... I can certainly see it becoming even more prolific.

Of course... I can also see folks hopping over state lines to do legal private party purchases being more common, too.

(And, no... none of mine are available for purchase)

 

[arakboss]

It's a personal choice, but it's not necessary to go to such dramatic extremes. Everyone is different, but just with my own collection... I would guess a good 98% are not originally registered to me. The law doesn't require that I keep paperwork on the purchases... so I haven't... and I honestly can't recall the names of the people I bought them from.

There is always a minute risk a firearm can be stolen and used in a crime. You might even get a call about it, but if it's reported stolen and there is no evidence you where in any way connected to the crime... what's to worry about? You have the right to remain silent and are innocent until proven guilty.

I'm not encouraging or condoning it... mainly tongue in cheek... but simply saying that I know it still happens and I'm quite sure it will continue. Especially if 114 makes all legal avenues to sale/purchase within the state illegal for any great length of time... I can certainly see it becoming even more prolific.

Of course... I can also see folks hopping over state lines to do legal private party purchases being more common, too.

(And, no... none of mine are available for purchase)

That explains it. I only have two that I acquired without 4473s before SB941. I did get them from a close relative who did fill out 4473s for them. I don't plan to sell them.

 

[Stomper]

Old voters just stayed home...

Young voters are rabid lefties....

There is no political solution here, we are bubblegumed.

Oh there's a political solution, it comes in four boxes.

1. The soap box

2. The ballot box

3. The jury box

4. The ammo box.



We've just moved to box #3, if that fails….. then #4 is on deck.

 

[peteNW503]

So 114 basically outlaws the sales of guns? Right now the Que is like 4.5k as of 2:30pm yesterday: Sold something buyer was given an estimate waiting period with no CHL of 16 days. That will be a cake walk compared to what is coming with 114. With all the new " safety " requirements to get a permit to purchase a gun it could be a year or year before you are approved. Did you guys seen colion noirs video he made. Oregon law enforcement didn't want this headache with limited resources. Effectively takes police off the streets and just issuing permits..

 

[Jay Walk]

And there was no digital anything. That was even more mask off than it was today that elections are fixed. How could they possibly count and verify that they're all legit in one day without computerization? I think the only reason it takes a week now is to cover all their bases, dot the i's, cross the t's

Hard for some to comprehend I know but people also could find an address while their phone was at home hanging on the kitchen wall.

 

[esbshaw]

It's a personal choice, but it's not necessary to go to such dramatic extremes. Everyone is different, but just with my own collection... I would guess a good 98% are not originally registered to me. The law doesn't require that I keep paperwork on the purchases... so I haven't... and I honestly can't recall the names of the people I bought them from.

There is always a minute risk a firearm can be stolen and used in a crime. You might even get a call about it, but if it's reported stolen and there is no evidence you where in any way connected to the crime... what's to worry about? You have the right to remain silent and are innocent until proven guilty.

I'm not encouraging or condoning it... mainly tongue in cheek... but simply saying that I know it still happens and I'm quite sure it will continue. Especially if 114 makes all legal avenues to sale/purchase within the state illegal for any great length of time... I can certainly see it becoming even more prolific.

Of course... I can also see folks hopping over state lines to do legal private party purchases being more common, too.

(And, no... none of mine are available for purchase)

Pretty sure there's no such thing as : "hopping over state lines to do legal private party purchases". From usconcealedcarry.com - Under federal law, an unlicensed individual is prohibited from transferring a firearm to an individual who does not reside in the same state as the transferee. Generally, for a person to lawfully transfer a firearm to an unlicensed person who resides out of state, the firearm must be shipped to an FFL within the recipient's state of residence. Easy enough to mis-represent your state of residence to a private seller in Idaho if he didn't ask to see your drivers license. But you'd be committing a felony, and dragging the seller into unwittingly committing one, too. Not worth it.

 

[Yarome]

Pretty sure there's no such thing as : "hopping over state lines to do legal private party purchases". From usconcealedcarry.com - Under federal law, an unlicensed individual is prohibited from transferring a firearm to an individual who does not reside in the same state as the transferee. Generally, for a person to lawfully transfer a firearm to an unlicensed person who resides out of state, the firearm must be shipped to an FFL within the recipient's state of residence. Easy enough to mis-represent your state of residence to a private seller in Idaho if he didn't ask to see your drivers license. But you'd be committing a felony, and dragging the seller into unwittingly committing one, too. Not worth it.

That is PARTIALLY correct. Handguns, yes... long guns... no. You're perfectly free to border hop in many states. It is entirely legal and will cause no recourse toward either party... as long as the firearm is legal to possess within your home state and you are not a prohibited person.

You'll note that your source pertains to "concealed carry" firearms... which typically isn't going to include long guns, and not that sites focus, right.

 

[solv3nt]

That is PARTIALLY correct. Handguns, yes... long guns... no. You're perfectly free to border hop in many states. It is entirely legal and will cause no recourse toward either party... as long as the firearm is legal to possess within your home state and you are not a prohibited person.

You'll note that your source pertains to "concealed carry" firearms... which typically isn't going to include long guns, and not that sites focus, right.

I don't believe you're correct. In two free states, you're allowed to buy a long gun from any other state from an FFL, not a private party.

Post 114, unless you have your permit to purchase on you in the state of question, you will no longer be allowed to to purchase a long gun in another state.

I was buying a 22 rifle in Oregon while residing in Hawaii. I had my permit, just not with me in Oregon. Cabela's actually made me return the rifle.

 

[esbshaw]

I got lazy and just cited it from concealedcarry.com because that was the first source that appeared in a google search. The original source, of course comes straight from the ATF - https://www.atf.gov/resource-center/docs/0813-firearms-top-12-qaspdf/download - Handguns and long guns both treated equally as "firearms" and nothing concerning "concealed carry". I mean, hell, if you could just go to Idaho and legally buy any long gun you wanted "private party sale" with just cash and a handshake, no paperwork and no background check, just like you were an Idaho resident, I'd be over there every weekend!!!