"Meaningfully change gun ownership demographics ..."

[ZigZagZeke]

When the "discussion" seems to devolve into "I don't like something, therefore you should not have it" or "Your rights and opinions offend me, therefore you should be cancelled" it is never truly a discussion. In any debate, definitions and rules must be established for a baseline. If "meaningful change" is not defined then it simply becomes a method to silence all opposition. Who changes? What is the benefit? Why does one side have to conform or transform to make themselves more appealing to their philosophical, theological, sociological opposites? We need to start asking ourselves why "meaningful change" seems to always mean deconstructing the rights, freedoms, justice, norms, and morals of our country. Otherwise it is like having a discussion with law enforcement on how to meaningfully change our homes to be more "thief friendly" or our families more "predator friendly". After all, if we would just let criminals have their way we wouldn't need firearms, right?

And that's where we are headed. I'm hearing more and more advice like "your property isn't worth your life", and it's not, but that doesn't mean you should cooperate with a thief. I would not be surprised to hear that "you should cooperate with your rapist to avoid injury".

 

[Xaevian]

BUMPED UP and thank you.

Good shooting to you too.

Take care!

Cate
PS: Did you join a range or are you mainly shooting out of town now?

Me and my wife own 20 acres near Conner, a bit south of Darby, that I shoot at. I haven't had much free time since I moved over here.

 

[Rkangel]

And that's where we are headed. I'm hearing more and more advice like "your property isn't worth your life", and it's not, but that doesn't mean you should cooperate with a thief. I would not be surprised to hear that "you should cooperate with your rapist to avoid injury".

I remember reading a couple articles from Europe that suggested exactly this scenario. And we know that the current powers that be are not only pushing us to be more like socialist Europe but are also releasing criminals back onto the streets to prey on society.

 

[ZigZagZeke]

Thoughts:

1 - Define "pro-2A camp".

If you are presently in your 40's you became politically aware around 1990. You missed the original "gun culture". They were nearly ALL "FUDDs". I can remember what served as our LGS in 1955. It was the basement of our local hardware store. Gun people hung out there, amidst the stuffed bear and the various deer, moose, and elk mounts on the wall. the air was thick with sweet pipe smoke, and the smell of freshly painted duck decoys and Hoppe's #9. There was not a black gun or synthetic stock in sight. The racks were full of fine old side-by-sides and over/unders. The debate was about .30-06 versus .270 for elk. Pistols mostly had revolving cylinders, and the semi-autos were all Colt or Browning, or maybe a Hi-Standard.

The point is that "tactical" didn't enter the picture until the militarization of the police began sometime in the 80's.

2 - Recently-new gun owners may be more pro-2A than most old gun owners. There are lots of old fudds - they are not as pro-2A as we need them to be.

Urban Dictionary: Fudd

Slang term for a "casual" gun owner; eg; a person who typically only owns guns for hunting or shotgun sports and does not truly believe in the true premise of the second amendment. These people also generally treat owners/users of so called "non sporting" firearms like handguns or semiautomatic...

www.urbandictionary.com

See my answer above.

3 - We are outnumbered. If ALL gun owners were in the gung-ho, pro-black-rifles, no-compromise pro-2A camp, we would still be outnumbered. Public schools, the media, Hollywood, many churches, Bloomberg-type groups, and many mass shootings have changed the majority of voters to be at least anti-black-rifles, pro UBC, etc. See Washington state and 1639. Only in some red states is that not true. Look at Georgia - they KNEW if they voted D, the country would go commie and they did it anyway.

"We are outnumbered" is a myth. Technically it might be correct, but only slightly. Roughly 49% of the Oregon electorate are gun owners. "We are outnumbered" is an excuse for not voting, and roughly half of all gun owning voters take advantage of that myth and use it as an excuse not to vote. If they all voted, if we had 49% of the votes cast plus even 2% of the non-gun owning voters we would win every election. But we have a huge percentage of sour, angry, defeatist, petulant mossbacks who are furious that shouting "Shall not be Infringed!" at every opportunity isn't working. They don't want to hear that they actually have to participate in the "rigged" system, get off their butts, and actually turn out to vote, turn out for rallies, and write to their congress critters and local media. They shouldn't have to get involved, they scream, while kicking their heels and rolling around on the floor, because "Shall not be infringed!"

4 - Can we increase our numbers? Maybe. Build indoor and outdoor shooting ranges around all major cities in the US and charge only what it costs to run them. Better yet, subsidize them somehow so they are really cheap to use. Build A LOT of them so people can actually get a slot to shoot without going a long way, etc. Then advertise them. Better find some pro-2A billionaires.

Exactly!!! But how many of us are doing anything toward those goals? There are a few, like @Cogs, who are working to improve the image of recreational shooters, and establish and upgrade shooting facilities on public (USFS & BLM) property, and @LethalLovebird, who teaches gun safety and shooting techniques to elementary school kids. How many of us contribute to their efforts with money or time, or do similar things to advance the normalization, knowledge, and love of shooting sports?

No, in fact a great many of us act as if we want to hoard the firearms experience for ourselves. Newcomers with new or strange ideas, or haircuts, or clothing styles are not to be trusted. They're ridiculed for not knowing the unwritten rules we made up as we went along. We are our own worst enemies.

 

[Lesliet]

With all that said this thread is a perfect example of the exact thing they discussed in the opener of that video. Comments about the his hair, or how hot the girl is, mocking them as if they don't belong maybe?

No, in fact a great many of us act as if we want to hoard the firearms experience for ourselves. Newcomers with new or strange ideas, or haircuts, or clothing styles are not to be trusted. They're ridiculed for not knowing the unwritten rules we made up as we went along. We are our own worst enemies.

And this right here, is human nature in general, I think. Doesn't matter if you're left or right or neither, there's always an "old guard" that tends to haze the newcomers and the outsiders. I think it's worthwhile to carefully observe for this behavior pattern in ourselves, and try to avoid it. Probably dates back to our tribal days, when other bands of humans were usually a hazard.

Of course, observing how hot the girl is is pretty much male behavior....

 

[Knobgoblin]

I remember reading a couple articles from Europe that suggested exactly this scenario. And we know that the current powers that be are not only pushing us to be more like socialist Europe but are also releasing criminals back onto the streets to prey on society.

Mini - rant time

Am I crazy, or are the roundabouts that dominate road construction another sign of Eurocentric manipulation of our daily lives?
If we convert to the metric system, I'm committing myself.

 

[ma96782]

I would not be surprised to hear that "you should cooperate with your rapist to avoid injury".

I'm not surprised....
THAT has been around for a looooong time.

Aloha, Mark

 

[Dinglenutz]

I think 2020 answered this question.

" NSSF surveys revealed that 58 percent of firearm purchases were among African American men and women, the largest increase of any demographic group. Women comprised 40 percent of first-time gun purchasers. Retailers noted that they are seeing a 95 percent increase in firearm sales and a 139 percent increase in ammunition sales over the same period in 2019. "

- https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/nssf-america-has-added-5-million-new-gun-owners-in-2020/

 

[Mikej]

I'll admit, I do not think I fit in with the typical gun nomenclature or the typical crowd. I have strong, different opinions that many and I've gotten into scuffles here on. I've even down right pissed people off some, even some in this thread, and called out hypocrisy where I could.

With all that said this thread is a perfect example of the exact thing they discussed in the opener of that video. Comments about the his hair, or how hot the girl is, mocking them as if they don't belong maybe?

Makes me smile!

I've come to a realization that part of the gun community, or a large part, simple does not want to change. At all really.

How do you know we don't really like them and respect their opinions, as their own? We like you a lot, and might comment about your haircut too!

I don't see much hope for bringing people into the fold. My reason for thinking that is because I just don't see people being able to get away from what they believe to be truths about the gun culture. They don't look for another side of the story. Or any story, for that matter. "Orange Man Bad" is a good example. They only see what's been drilled into their heads by the media, and never say to themselves "This is nuts. There has to be something I'm missing?" And then go on the search for that something that's missing.

I was true middle of the road when I came into our hobby, culture, what ever you want to call it. In doing so I I did it with an open mind. Just like any other group, there are different members with different attitudes. A person has to learn to accept people that are basically good, but have different views on things. Some of the people I really like to spend time with and others maybe not so much. But I won't be forming a negative opinion of any of them. Today, people are brainwashed and not nearly as open to accepting things they're unfamiliar with.

 

[Mikej]

" NSSF surveys revealed that 58 percent of firearm purchases were among African American men and women, the largest increase of any demographic group. Women comprised 40 percent of first-time gun purchasers. Retailers noted that they are seeing a 95 percent increase in firearm sales and a 139 percent increase in ammunition sales over the same period in 2019. "

- https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/nssf-america-has-added-5-million-new-gun-owners-in-2020/

If all this is really true? How do you suppose the rulers expect to just start passing all kinds of infringements right and left here in the next year?

 

[ma96782]

And so what? If those people weren't part of the gun culture they would be even more inclined to vote for the wrong people. It hurts nothing to have them as gun owners.

Call it an observation on the state of education/learning in America.

"....shall not be infringed."

IMHO......License a FREEDOM/RIGHT? Yeah.....we got some GIANT PROBLEMS with reading comprehension in this country.

Aloha, Mark

 

[Certaindeaf]

How do you know we don't really like them and respect their opinions, as their own? We like you a lot, and might comment about your haircut too!

I don't see much hope for bringing people into the fold. My reason for thinking that is because I just don't see people being able to get away from what they believe to be truths about the gun culture. They don't look for another side of the story. Or any story, for that matter. "Orange Man Bad" is a good example. They only see what's been drilled into their heads by the media, and never say to themselves "This is nuts. There has to be something I'm missing?" And then go on the search for that something that's missing.

I was true middle of the road when I came into our hobby, culture, what ever you want to call it. In doing so I I did it with an open mind. Just like any other group, there are different members with different attitudes. A person has to learn to accept people that are basically good, but have different views on things. Some of the people reallylike to spend time with and others maybe not so much. But I won't be forming a negative opinion of any of them. Today, people are brainwashed and not nearly as open to accepting things they're unfamiliar with.

Yea, a gun isn't a magic talisman and it won't change your already held beliefs one little bit.

 

[Mikej]

"....shall not be infringed."

Funny, or not. I'll hear little snippets on the radio news of some of these mugs Biden is putting into his cabinet reciting the "Oath", more than likely with their right hand raised, saying they "Swear to uphold the constitution of The United States". I think HA, We got'em there! Shall not be infringed and all that.

 

[ma96782]

Well, as I recall...... they have used THAT (the Oath of Office) as grounds for impeachment. So....is it just a D vs R issue? Or does it mean something?



Aloha, Mark

 

[RevBadger]

I would like to point out that a lot of you proved her point. There have been more replies talking about how she looks, than there have been posts about how to make LGBTQA+ people, People of Color, or other marginalized groups feel welcome in the 2A community. I know the gun community isn't a monolith, but the "stereotype" of an average gun owner does lean clearly in one direction. Let's take a quick poll. Show of hands. How many of you are straight, white, men, with either libertarian or conservative leanings? OK, now, how many of you are straight, white, women, with either libertarian or conservative leanings? Ok cool. Now how many of you are bi-sexual, multiracial, non-binary people with leftist leanings? 2A for everyone means EVERYONE. Even if you don't agree with themselves, their identity, or whatever.

But hey, look, she is nervous on live camera and wears a dog collar!!! That's the important take away.

If you even bothered to look at her other videos, you'd see that she also talks about other important aspects of responsible gun ownership. Like having an IFAK and the risk of lead exposure.

But hey! Look! She has cartoon girl hair!!!! OMG! APPLE PIE! USA! USA!

 

[ma96782]

You might have this all wrong.....
or....maybe not?

That's my lame attempt at a joke.


+++++++++++++

Tell me.....
Should I be GRATEFUL that ANTIFA has a lot of new members with guns?

TO CLARIFY THIS......grouping me into any one particular group, will be difficult. I reserve the right.....to like and dislike.....as I see fit.

Aloha, Mark

 

[Mikej]

I would like to point out that a lot of you proved her point. There have been more replies talking about how she looks, than there have been posts about how to make LGBTQA+ people, People of Color, or other marginalized groups feel welcome in the 2A community. I know the gun community isn't a monolith, but the "stereotype" of an average gun owner does lean clearly in one direction. Let's take a quick poll. Show of hands. How many of you are straight, white, men, with either libertarian or conservative leanings? OK, now, how many of you are straight, white, women, with either libertarian or conservative leanings? Ok cool. Now how many of you are bi-sexual, multiracial, non-binary people with leftist leanings? 2A for everyone means EVERYONE. Even if you don't agree with themselves, their identity, or whatever.

But hey, look, she is nervous on live camera and wears a dog collar!!! That's the important take away.

If you even bothered to look at her other videos, you'd see that she also talks about other important aspects of responsible gun ownership. Like having an IFAK and the risk of lead exposure.

But hey! Look! She has cartoon girl hair!!!! OMG! APPLE PIE! USA! USA!

So they get to judge us? But we are the problem when we do the same? Doesn't everyone get to speak of first impressions, and then get to change their opinions once they get to know the person?

 

[Certaindeaf]

I would like to point out that a lot of you proved her point. There have been more replies talking about how she looks, than there have been posts about how to make LGBTQA+ people, People of Color, or other marginalized groups feel welcome in the 2A community. I know the gun community isn't a monolith, but the "stereotype" of an average gun owner does lean clearly in one direction. Let's take a quick poll. Show of hands. How many of you are straight, white, men, with either libertarian or conservative leanings? OK, now, how many of you are straight, white, women, with either libertarian or conservative leanings? Ok cool. Now how many of you are bi-sexual, multiracial, non-binary people with leftist leanings? 2A for everyone means EVERYONE. Even if you don't agree with themselves, their identity, or whatever.

But hey, look, she is nervous on live camera and wears a dog collar!!! That's the important take away.

If you even bothered to look at her other videos, you'd see that she also talks about other important aspects of responsible gun ownership. Like having an IFAK and the risk of lead exposure.

But hey! Look! She has cartoon girl hair!!!! OMG! APPLE PIE! USA! USA!

This is why Paul Harrell doesn't have 50,000,000 subscribers.

 

[BillyJean]

And this right here, is human nature in general, I think. Doesn't matter if you're left or right or neither, there's always an "old guard" that tends to haze the newcomers and the outsiders. I think it's worthwhile to carefully observe for this behavior pattern in ourselves, and try to avoid it. Probably dates back to our tribal days, when other bands of humans were usually a hazard.

Of course, observing how hot the girl is is pretty much male behavior....

What is funny (or sad) is these observations above are so obviously true and spot-on to anyone who is being honest with themselves and paying attention to what is actually going on in this country at large.

People are scared of guns because they don't have experience (or good experiences) with them. They don't have good experience with them because of the people who are gun owners. That is toxic gun culture, and if you can't/don't see it, you're probably part of the problem. It's not the guns, it the people with guns who act like dic*heads.

A lot of folks even reading this could be a bit more honest and change their attitudes away from constant fear and groupthink to one that's welcoming and accepting and educational. Instead, lots of folks in gun culture would rather see it die than share it/pass it on. They say they care about 2A but they act as though it belongs to them more than other people who they don't deem to be as fit for it as themselves are. It's really a shame, but to quote a phrase I see often posted on this forum about others' misfortune: play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

 

[RevBadger]

So they get to judge us? But we are the problem when we do the same? Doesn't everyone get to speak of first impressions, and then get to change their opinions once they get to know the person?

Judge who you want. We are a judgmental culture. Hell, I'm even judging you as I type this. But my judgement of you should have no bearing on if you should feel comfortable walking into your LGS and buying a gun.

I can't remember the name of the store, but I stopped by a gun store a couple years ago in Oregon, some where north of Tillamook (holler at the Cheese Gods). And they legit had a giant confederate flag across the back of their store and multiple signs that said things like "I got a rope, if you got a tree".

Like super cringey racists. Now imagine if you are a minority and that is your only example of a gun store. Even if you buy a gun from Armslist, you still have to go there and pick it up.

This is why Paul Harrell doesn't have 50,000,000 subscribers.

And why WhistlinDiesel has 1.9 million and just shot himself in the face doing dumb things.