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"Meaningfully change gun ownership demographics ..."
- Thread Starter CountryGent
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Strangely worded question for sure in the OP video.
"Meaningful change"...strikes me a some sort of PC , sounds good , but ironically meaningless sound bite.
When I talk with folks who are anti gun , or at least those that claim to be neutral in regards to guns and firearm ownership , I do hear a lot of assuming and stereotyping , as well as just wrong information , regarding the subject.
A "re-branding" of just who owns guns and why , may be helpful....or not.
Be careful with what you ask for...
Since not everyone thinks and acts the same , one man's positive change , can be another man's worse possible outcome.
I can not "meaningfully change gun ownership demographics".
I can however , help or harm gun ownership , by my words and actions.
Therefore it behooves me to be at my best whenever I am doing something with a firearm or talking about firearms with others.
Andy
"Meaningful change"...strikes me a some sort of PC , sounds good , but ironically meaningless sound bite.
When I talk with folks who are anti gun , or at least those that claim to be neutral in regards to guns and firearm ownership , I do hear a lot of assuming and stereotyping , as well as just wrong information , regarding the subject.
A "re-branding" of just who owns guns and why , may be helpful....or not.
Be careful with what you ask for...
Since not everyone thinks and acts the same , one man's positive change , can be another man's worse possible outcome.
I can not "meaningfully change gun ownership demographics".
I can however , help or harm gun ownership , by my words and actions.
Therefore it behooves me to be at my best whenever I am doing something with a firearm or talking about firearms with others.
Andy
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The best way to engage another individual on any topic where there is opposition or misunderstanding is to appeal to that person's values - ask questions to learn what is important to them and use that information to find common ground. 'Facts don't care about feelings' is often heard as a great argument, however in psychological terms that reverse is often true for the individual: Feelings don't care about facts. A person's cognitive dissonance will prevent them from considering new information that conflicts with their values, EVEN TO THEIR OWN DETRIMENT. The best way around this to find the common ground between their feelings and your facts and plant a seed that speaks quietly at first, but eventually grows into a Tarzan yell the more they think about it.
They have to come to their own conclusion for it to be of any use.
They have to come to their own conclusion for it to be of any use.
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I agree with you.
Thank you!
I tried to write something 4 times so that it did not come across 'wrong' to a moderator or to another reader/poster here.
My husband got up and I JUST READ it to him and he said that it was fine and to push send so that it would SHOW UP on this forum.
I did not do that because I figured if I mentioned some FACTS - someone would get their feelings HURT. LOL Oh well.
I told my husband that most likely someone would find it politically INCORRECT and it would get SLAPPED DOWN, deleted, closed up or whatever ELSE due to a VERY clear explanation when it comes to the RKBA for ALL people NO matter what TYPE OF GUNS that they LIKE, liked and owned AND used to be able to shoot.
Handguns were always MY thing from the gitgo until my hands/fingers got worse with my old accident issues - horrific fall, arthritis and old age. OUT of 15 or so guns in my first few years of gun ownership - ALL but 3 guns were handguns back east. More handguns out here and my first CF rifle and I am just going by the ones (15 or so.) that I bought back east.
PLUS the reason or reasonS why a specific person chose to get into guns to begin with coming from a VERY conservative background.
I don't give a rat's butt WHY a person chooses to buy a gun or any other tool or a book for that matter!
IT is NONE of my business!
They can learn how to shoot it safely and in a responsible manner. They can shoot it a few times per year, several times a month or become a high volume shooter.
They can get into GUNS for ONE REASON or more reasons and FIND OUT how much they LIKE GUNS and other things tied into gun ownership too. Been there - done that!
My 2 reasons not that IT should matter to any person but here they are again:
RKBA issue.
Self defense.
TWO main reasons which ended up into MORE interests in the shooting sports world but even if the other interests did not happen... I stand by my 2 reasons because that IS and was what mattered to me from the gitgo.
And that was after learning about and shooting my late husband's 'house gun' a few times as a young bride back in his home state after his Nam and all around the world time, him living on his ship, after living in 2 other states as a bride and building our house in his home state in the early 70's.
I did not watch the video. I may watch it later on. I am multi tasking here.
I could be VERY blunt about how some MEN constantly use the word FEAR and how they LOATHE the words self defense when it comes to NEWBIES in the gun world. I would lay it out nice and smooth and EXPLAIN that when a LADY or a man buys and practices using their first gun (Glock in my case - late 90's.) - it was NOT due to living in fear. RKBA and SELF DEFENSE.
MODERATORS and delicate reading members here:
So are we allowed to explain this some more IN this thread or not, moderators and members? SERIOUS question here.
Especially when the word FEAR comes up all of the time with some MEN or they think that a person HAS TO HAVE THEIR OWN IDEAS when it comes to gun ownership or that they have to hunt or for some other reason that they BELIEVE is a BETTER reason for buying/owning/shooting guns.
GUN people eat their own and SOME OF THEM do drive away NEWBIES because some of the older and newer people don't like the REASONS that some people give out when it comes to gun ownership.
By the way, the political SALAMI and other garbage in the news is the same OLD dung ala 60's (LIVED through it!) only NOW you have freaking idiots in power who want to defund peace officers, tell the military to do whatever and they tell the peace officers to STAND DOWN while the FAR LEFT and FAR RIGHT - CRIMINALS aka INMATES FULL OF CRIMINAL INTENT want to harm, murder and burn down and destroy your homes, businesses and country!
The inmates are running the asylum in your states and in the District of Criminals. Old news but it IS getting worse!
Old Lady Cate
Typos!
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We are a firearm forum....firearm issues are supposed to be discussed.
So please explain away....Just be sure that the postings fall inline with forum rules....
Its when folks deviate from forum rules that the trouble happens.
Andy
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PS:
And if a person chooses to not buy, own or shoot a gun - it is none of my business too.
Their choice - not mine.
The ONLY thing is that if they choose to NOT own or use a gun or a tool or any other THING - they should NOT try to SCREW UP our RKBA issue, the Constitution, etc.
Should we tell THEM what they can't buy or own or use?
What about their freaking cellular telephones or a zillion pairs of shoes or any other THING that they FEEL (LOL) that they can't LIVE WITHOUT?!
Let us make them LIVE WITH AN APPROVED LIST OF TELEPHONES and a list of their Holly-weird boob tube shows, movies, music, books, vehicles and/or clothing? Do you think that would work if we turned the tables on them? LOL
Ration their whatever and give out OUR LISTS - that will never happen to THEM but it sure does when it comes to GUNS, ammunition, reloading supplies, etc.
MOST gun folks would not TELL those anti RKBA people what they can and can't BUY, own or use because MOST of us do NOT want it done to us in ANY THING so we would NOT do it to THEM.
ADDED more.
Cate
And if a person chooses to not buy, own or shoot a gun - it is none of my business too.
Their choice - not mine.
The ONLY thing is that if they choose to NOT own or use a gun or a tool or any other THING - they should NOT try to SCREW UP our RKBA issue, the Constitution, etc.
Should we tell THEM what they can't buy or own or use?
What about their freaking cellular telephones or a zillion pairs of shoes or any other THING that they FEEL (LOL) that they can't LIVE WITHOUT?!
Let us make them LIVE WITH AN APPROVED LIST OF TELEPHONES and a list of their Holly-weird boob tube shows, movies, music, books, vehicles and/or clothing? Do you think that would work if we turned the tables on them? LOL
Ration their whatever and give out OUR LISTS - that will never happen to THEM but it sure does when it comes to GUNS, ammunition, reloading supplies, etc.
MOST gun folks would not TELL those anti RKBA people what they can and can't BUY, own or use because MOST of us do NOT want it done to us in ANY THING so we would NOT do it to THEM.
ADDED more.
Cate
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LET us start with the word FEAR.
Why do so many GUN men and some GUN women constantly use the word FEAR? They throw that word around like SALT on French fries HERE and all over the WWWeb.
They don't want to see a Newbie buy a gun out of fear.
WHY should you care WHY they choose to buy a gun or not buy a gun?!
IT is none of your business!
Hopefully it is not intended for use in a crime and we all do NOT want to see that happen.
They should LEARN HOW TO USE IT SAFELY and be a responsible gun person.
NO kidding - really?! Well, duh, who would have THUNK that?!
It is like a bunch of busy bodies going on and on about Newbies. As if because YOU did a, b and c and if someone else does x, y and z at another stage of their life... some of you come across as holier than thou.
I had/have some close friends who hunt/hunted. EX military (Nam era.) and LONG TIME TARGET SHOOTERS as kids - hunted early, etc. Some were peace officers too. Some were INTO all kinds of competition too. One is Dead now - a very close friend who was born and raised in CO. A few others are dead now too.
Anyway, I asked them as a Newbie in the late 90's and even later on... some questions and they NEVER EVER came across as if they were somehow BETTER than me as a Newbie and MY reasons were just as GOOD as their reasons for owning guns. Plus they agreed with me that NO one needed a REASON and they did not need to give one to any person. It comes to that old thing called FREEDOM to make a decision for YOURSELF!
On top of that, they told me that MOST females were easier to train for LACK of a better word - NO offense ladies because the ones LIKE ME really wanted to LEARN gun safety and shoot well. They even told me that they could NOT get over how gun safety conscious I was and my own late husband told me this too. They told me that many older LONG TIME shooters and even some CC/OC owners were not that safety conscious or practiced as often or as much too.
I never AIMED to become some sniper or planned on WW3 or went on and on about BULLET PROOF VESTS. NO offense to those of you who are INTO such thoughts or own/wear these things.
ALL I wanted to do was to learn proper and safe methods of self defense using paper targets and some VERY SPECIFIC drills at various ranges and at specific FEET - YARD distances.
I am NOT a long ranger shooter. I really don't care about that but I have shot at longer distances. I do not hunt too. I am NOT knocking people who hunt when I say this too.
And if the person learns how to use a gun ALL over again or from the gitgo as a NEWBIE by their husband - military, peace officer friend or some other relative or friend who KNOWS how to use a gun safely OR of they take an official gun safety class... what is it to you?
IT is really NONE of your business IF they go to a public or private range or BLM land or to the woods a couple of times a year or much more frequently to shoot safely.
ARE you going to limit how many rounds that they can shoot until you DEEM them good enough to be in your 'good grace'?
Even YOU had to learn how to shoot safely and be a responsible gun person as a KID, teen, young adult, middle aged or older man or woman!
Every single person has to start at the beginning NO matter if they learn how to shoot a gun, handle a KNIFE, build a house with their husband, how to sail and power boat, how to swim as a baby or tot, etc.
Well, golly whiz, maybe the ONCE CLUELESS or even SMART/COMMON SENSE filled 'Joe or Jane' in suburbia, in the city, in a small village or even in RURAL areas had a WAKE UP CALL or a Come to J___ moment with a Criminal FAR L or FAR R whack-a-doodle! Maybe that was their REASON.
Do you call that FEAR and they have to have another or better REASON according to YOU so that they can protect themselves or a LONGER WAITING PERIOD? (I am NOT talking about long BCs now - time wise. Mine was always a couple of minutes - less than 5 minutes if that even as a NEWBIE. NO kidding. Late 90's.)
Maybe they figured out that since they believe in personal responsibility in ALL AREAS of their life - self defense as in personal, family if they have any, home, business and/or dog protection should come into consideration.
Well, self preservation and SELF DEFENSE with ANY TOOL is just that.
A Newbie or Oldie who chooses to use any TOOL (NOT only a GUN!) for self defense or having a PLAN OF ACTION in a home invasion or in the middle of a crazy situation even though you did NOT plan to BE IN IT, being aware of your SURROUNDINGS, close to or away from home, out traveling, etc. - having a, gasp - lol, SELF DEFENSE PLAN is a good idea!
Maybe those Newbies in ANY AGE bracket figured that out and not just due to the 2020 cluster you know what that happened in this country!
Some, NOT all, get their knickers all twisted up when a Newbie begins to REALIZE what is going on in the world now and not just from past history when it comes to disarming a populace.
You know - GUN CONTROL = PEOPLE CONTROL.
History is nothing to be scoffed at and not only during WW2 times.
Response times IF you can get a peace officer to your very RURAL home during ALL kinds of weather related or man made events IS a SERIOUS ISSUE! That goes if you live in a village or city. Do you have a LONG wait? Been there - done that.
There have been true stories where BAD things happened to GOOD PEOPLE in GOOD AREAS and some of THOSE PEOPLE never EVER thought that such things could happen to THEM worse off to their loved ones DUE to WHERE THEY LIVED.
That is NOT fear mongering. Those people did not LIVE IN FEAR. Some of them had firearms and some of them did not have them.
If some people think that FEAR is a BAD WORD when it comes to buying/owning/shooting/carrying GUNS and should not be a factor or reason in buying, owning and shooting ANY TYPE of firearm (Any brand, style, round capacity, etc.) - WHY DO peace officers use their common sense/brains and CARRY A FIREARM on their bodies? They CARRY THEM and USE THEM for self defense, self preservation AND to PROTECT OTHER PEOPLE and fellow officers.
Now... I used the words SELF DEFENSE AGAIN.
So if self defense is FINE for peace officers (And the military!) when it comes to THEM - SELF DEFENSE aka SELF PRESERVATION of yourself, your family, your dog, your home, your business and your country... it is a GOOD TERM for the rest of us.
I support GOOD peace officers and the military so pul______leeze do NOT take my comments wrong or get your knickers all twisted up.
One other thing, most people who really DO LIKE and shoot various types of guns whether they compete or NOT (Past or present.) tend to be VERY good shooters. WHY do I say this? Because they actually DO USE THEIR GUNS on a regular basis. And MOST OF THEM including the ones that I have met - take gun ownership very seriously and are RESPONSIBLE people in all other areas of their lives.
Old Lady Cate
Why do so many GUN men and some GUN women constantly use the word FEAR? They throw that word around like SALT on French fries HERE and all over the WWWeb.
They don't want to see a Newbie buy a gun out of fear.
WHY should you care WHY they choose to buy a gun or not buy a gun?!
IT is none of your business!
Hopefully it is not intended for use in a crime and we all do NOT want to see that happen.
They should LEARN HOW TO USE IT SAFELY and be a responsible gun person.
NO kidding - really?! Well, duh, who would have THUNK that?!
It is like a bunch of busy bodies going on and on about Newbies. As if because YOU did a, b and c and if someone else does x, y and z at another stage of their life... some of you come across as holier than thou.
I had/have some close friends who hunt/hunted. EX military (Nam era.) and LONG TIME TARGET SHOOTERS as kids - hunted early, etc. Some were peace officers too. Some were INTO all kinds of competition too. One is Dead now - a very close friend who was born and raised in CO. A few others are dead now too.
Anyway, I asked them as a Newbie in the late 90's and even later on... some questions and they NEVER EVER came across as if they were somehow BETTER than me as a Newbie and MY reasons were just as GOOD as their reasons for owning guns. Plus they agreed with me that NO one needed a REASON and they did not need to give one to any person. It comes to that old thing called FREEDOM to make a decision for YOURSELF!
On top of that, they told me that MOST females were easier to train for LACK of a better word - NO offense ladies because the ones LIKE ME really wanted to LEARN gun safety and shoot well. They even told me that they could NOT get over how gun safety conscious I was and my own late husband told me this too. They told me that many older LONG TIME shooters and even some CC/OC owners were not that safety conscious or practiced as often or as much too.
I never AIMED to become some sniper or planned on WW3 or went on and on about BULLET PROOF VESTS. NO offense to those of you who are INTO such thoughts or own/wear these things.
ALL I wanted to do was to learn proper and safe methods of self defense using paper targets and some VERY SPECIFIC drills at various ranges and at specific FEET - YARD distances.
I am NOT a long ranger shooter. I really don't care about that but I have shot at longer distances. I do not hunt too. I am NOT knocking people who hunt when I say this too.
And if the person learns how to use a gun ALL over again or from the gitgo as a NEWBIE by their husband - military, peace officer friend or some other relative or friend who KNOWS how to use a gun safely OR of they take an official gun safety class... what is it to you?
IT is really NONE of your business IF they go to a public or private range or BLM land or to the woods a couple of times a year or much more frequently to shoot safely.
ARE you going to limit how many rounds that they can shoot until you DEEM them good enough to be in your 'good grace'?
Even YOU had to learn how to shoot safely and be a responsible gun person as a KID, teen, young adult, middle aged or older man or woman!
Every single person has to start at the beginning NO matter if they learn how to shoot a gun, handle a KNIFE, build a house with their husband, how to sail and power boat, how to swim as a baby or tot, etc.
Well, golly whiz, maybe the ONCE CLUELESS or even SMART/COMMON SENSE filled 'Joe or Jane' in suburbia, in the city, in a small village or even in RURAL areas had a WAKE UP CALL or a Come to J___ moment with a Criminal FAR L or FAR R whack-a-doodle! Maybe that was their REASON.
Do you call that FEAR and they have to have another or better REASON according to YOU so that they can protect themselves or a LONGER WAITING PERIOD? (I am NOT talking about long BCs now - time wise. Mine was always a couple of minutes - less than 5 minutes if that even as a NEWBIE. NO kidding. Late 90's.)
Maybe they figured out that since they believe in personal responsibility in ALL AREAS of their life - self defense as in personal, family if they have any, home, business and/or dog protection should come into consideration.
Well, self preservation and SELF DEFENSE with ANY TOOL is just that.
A Newbie or Oldie who chooses to use any TOOL (NOT only a GUN!) for self defense or having a PLAN OF ACTION in a home invasion or in the middle of a crazy situation even though you did NOT plan to BE IN IT, being aware of your SURROUNDINGS, close to or away from home, out traveling, etc. - having a, gasp - lol, SELF DEFENSE PLAN is a good idea!
Maybe those Newbies in ANY AGE bracket figured that out and not just due to the 2020 cluster you know what that happened in this country!
Some, NOT all, get their knickers all twisted up when a Newbie begins to REALIZE what is going on in the world now and not just from past history when it comes to disarming a populace.
You know - GUN CONTROL = PEOPLE CONTROL.
History is nothing to be scoffed at and not only during WW2 times.
Response times IF you can get a peace officer to your very RURAL home during ALL kinds of weather related or man made events IS a SERIOUS ISSUE! That goes if you live in a village or city. Do you have a LONG wait? Been there - done that.
There have been true stories where BAD things happened to GOOD PEOPLE in GOOD AREAS and some of THOSE PEOPLE never EVER thought that such things could happen to THEM worse off to their loved ones DUE to WHERE THEY LIVED.
That is NOT fear mongering. Those people did not LIVE IN FEAR. Some of them had firearms and some of them did not have them.
If some people think that FEAR is a BAD WORD when it comes to buying/owning/shooting/carrying GUNS and should not be a factor or reason in buying, owning and shooting ANY TYPE of firearm (Any brand, style, round capacity, etc.) - WHY DO peace officers use their common sense/brains and CARRY A FIREARM on their bodies? They CARRY THEM and USE THEM for self defense, self preservation AND to PROTECT OTHER PEOPLE and fellow officers.
Now... I used the words SELF DEFENSE AGAIN.
So if self defense is FINE for peace officers (And the military!) when it comes to THEM - SELF DEFENSE aka SELF PRESERVATION of yourself, your family, your dog, your home, your business and your country... it is a GOOD TERM for the rest of us.
I support GOOD peace officers and the military so pul______leeze do NOT take my comments wrong or get your knickers all twisted up.
One other thing, most people who really DO LIKE and shoot various types of guns whether they compete or NOT (Past or present.) tend to be VERY good shooters. WHY do I say this? Because they actually DO USE THEIR GUNS on a regular basis. And MOST OF THEM including the ones that I have met - take gun ownership very seriously and are RESPONSIBLE people in all other areas of their lives.
Old Lady Cate
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Just don't be holdin' a hammer if'n ya happen to put your "member" up onna tabletop.... and don't get me started 'bout slammin' doors while nekked, neither..... that's all Imma say about that!!
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And an even worse green-screen background.
Ah, but that's the best part of the imagination. Grabbing those tresses like a bridle and steering that horse as you ride across the hinterlands, with a good crop to keep up the speed.
Do NOT attempt to use the third leg of your tripod as a hammer or door stop. Problem solved.Just don't be holdin' a hammer if'n ya happen to put your "member" up onna tabletop.... and don't get me started 'bout slammin' doors while nekked, neither..... that's all Imma say about that!!
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And an even worse green-screen background.
Ah, but that's the best part of the imagination. Grabbing those tresses like a bridle and steering that horse as you ride across the hinterlands, with a good crop to keep up the speed.
Do NOT attempt to use the third leg of your tripod as a hammer or door stop. Problem solved.
But... there's nails that need poundin', and doors that need pushin'!!
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Old Zulu proverb/saying - 'Ukuyekethisa kusho ukunikela ngesandla ongasisebenzisi engonyameni elambile.'
Tr - '[To] compromise means offering the hand that you don't use to the hungry lion'.
Tr - '[To] compromise means offering the hand that you don't use to the hungry lion'.
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We are a firearm forum....firearm issues are supposed to be discussed.
So please explain away....Just be sure that the postings fall inline with forum rules....
Its when folks deviate from forum rules that the trouble happens.
Andy
Andy,
I hope that my reply is good enough for the men who use the word FEAR and Newbies. LOL
Take care.
Cate
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BUMPED UP and thank you.
Good shooting to you too.
Take care!
Cate
PS: Did you join a range or are you mainly shooting out of town now?
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Dog collars and youtube subscriptions are pretty inexpensive these days..@CountryGent I have a feeling that was intentional...
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I'll admit, I do not think I fit in with the typical gun nomenclature or the typical crowd. I have strong, different opinions that many and I've gotten into scuffles here on. I've even down right pissed people off some, even some in this thread, and called out hypocrisy where I could.
With all that said this thread is a perfect example of the exact thing they discussed in the opener of that video. Comments about the his hair, or how hot the girl is, mocking them as if they don't belong maybe?
Makes me smile!
I've come to a realization that part of the gun community, or a large part, simple does not want to change. At all really.
With all that said this thread is a perfect example of the exact thing they discussed in the opener of that video. Comments about the his hair, or how hot the girl is, mocking them as if they don't belong maybe?
Makes me smile!
I've come to a realization that part of the gun community, or a large part, simple does not want to change. At all really.
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And so what? If those people weren't part of the gun culture they would be even more inclined to vote for the wrong people. It hurts nothing to have them as gun owners.
When the "discussion" seems to devolve into "I don't like something, therefore you should not have it" or "Your rights and opinions offend me, therefore you should be cancelled" it is never truly a discussion. In any debate, definitions and rules must be established for a baseline. If "meaningful change" is not defined then it simply becomes a method to silence all opposition. Who changes? What is the benefit? Why does one side have to conform or transform to make themselves more appealing to their philosophical, theological, sociological opposites? We need to start asking ourselves why "meaningful change" seems to always mean deconstructing the rights, freedoms, justice, norms, and morals of our country. Otherwise it is like having a discussion with law enforcement on how to meaningfully change our homes to be more "thief friendly" or our families more "predator friendly". After all, if we would just let criminals have their way we wouldn't need firearms, right?
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