Mass Shooting at Fort Hood

[Gunner3456]

Fox News reported that this guy had been reprimanded about 6 months ago for posting anti-American stuff on a Jihadist's blog.

I realize that "breaking news" is sometimes inaccurate and gets amended, but I just heard that.

 

[JohnWayne]

No one grabbed a rifle and put the shooters down?

grab it from where? These guys were in SRC to deploy or redeploy. Weapons are secured in Garrison at the SRC

 

[JohnWayne]

That's tough to do on a military base. Private weapons are extremely regulated. Barracks personnel have to keep them in the arms room with the G.I. weapons & it can be a tedious and annoying process to retrieve them. Nearly impossible on quick notice. Unless things have changed drastically since I ETS'd a few years back, almost nobody has quick access to arms & ammo at a stateside facility other than troops at the firing range & MP's. There was a shooting incident at Ft. Bragg sometime around '93. Some wackjob was sniping at personnel from a position between Ardennes Road. Unarmed Green Berets shut him down shortly thereafter.

+1... having been stationed there, I can tell you none of these soldiers would have had their primary weapon on hand for pre/post deployment processing.

 

[raindog]

The holocaust would not have happened if the german people saw jews as people. There was a scapegoating of a religion, they were made into subhumans. They were an outlet for an angry group of people.

That is a huge simplification, and not entirely true. The holocaust was rooted in 19th century ideas of race. Religion had little if anything to do with German anti-Semitism. Jews who had converted to Christianity or were not religiously practicing were still killed. No Jew who converted to Christianity or any other religion was spared. Jews who'd converted to Christianity and won medals in WWI were still gassed.

Islam is an entirely different creature. Even the most rabid Kahanist Jews I know are not anti-Arab. I can think of plenty of Arabs who are wonderful people - the publisher of WorldNetDaily, Joseph Farah, is Syrian for example.

No, criticism of Islam is entirely a look at culture and belief, which are well within the purview of discussion. The color of one's skin does determine whether someone is good or evil, but one's culture and beliefs certainly do.

I read the Koran and the Hadith, the news, and history, and frankly the conclusions are obvious. Sure, there are individual muslims who are not evil or violent, but the overall culture is a warlike, expansionist one that will run roughshod over soft, liberal, everyone-wear-a-smile-button Western civ. We will celebrate diversity under a crescent flag.

Sigh. Where's a new Charles Martel when we need one? On a recent trip to Italy, I saw the $50 million mosque in Rome that Saudia Arabia financed - and remembered that Saudi Arabia forbids all importation of the Bible into their own country. Muslims were rioting and burning cars in France and threatening to kill Dutchmen over cartoons. This cultural expansionism will one day swamp Western civ.

 

[ORBrit]

No one grabbed a rifle and put the shooters down?

grab it from where? These guys were in SRC to deploy or redeploy. Weapons are secured in Garrison at the SRC

My thoughts exactly.
I'm pretty sure army bases are pretty similar to the way they work in the UK, and even as an infantry officer, my rifle was stored in the armory, and the ammo was allocated at the start of each exercise or range session. It's not like soldiers just walk around with loaded weapons all the time when they're on base.
The only armed guards are typically gate security/QRF.

They were lucky to get away with relatively light casualties - imagine if the guy had strapped a bomb to himself and gone into the officers mess at dinner time.

 

[JohnWayne]

and I mistyped above. Weapons aren't stored at the SRC but rather at the armories for individual units. My hands typed faster than my brain could think!

 

[AGCR]

But, I feel Muslin's are a little different in their thinking and loyalties. For example, when have you ever heard of a Muslin "community" formally speak out against Muslim terrorist activities?[/QUOTE]

Actually, happens all the time. Just like mainstream Catholics (outside of the UK) always distanced themselves from the IRA and other Feinian groups, anytime a Muslim blows something up, you can count on it being condemned by their own community.

http://www.religioustolerance.org/islfatwa.htm

And while I'm on Catholics, this isn't the first time members of a religious group weren't trusted in the US military. Enough Catholic soldiers defected from the American army during the invasion of Mexico that they formed their own unit called the St. Patrick Brigade.

 

[dario541]

There are 1 billion Moslems in the world. Probably, the majority are decent people who just want to live and let live.
However, every time that some little thing offends them tens of millions of them around the world take to the streets smashing, looting, protesting and threatening the "offender" with death! Remember Salem Rushby(sic)? He wrote a book that Moslems didn't like and they put out a contract on him. Remember that cartoon about Mohammed in a Danish paper? Multi-millions of Moslems around the world went berserk, again threatening the artist with death! Remember the slaughter of innocent Israeli athletes at the Olympics in Berlin? The twin towers (This event caused millions of Moslems around the world to rejoice fervently), subway bombings in Spain and Britain? Plots to destroy Americans that were thwarted by the FBI?
The former head of Homeland Security (Wasn't his name Ridge?) said that Moslems were entering Mexico, shaving off their beards, wearing Mexican style clothing and then entering the USA-not seeking jobs like the Mexicans-but planning on destruction. The FBI says that many of the Islamic Mosques in America are meeting places for fanatic American-hating Jihadists. Surely you've all seen some of their demonstrations in Washington, DC where they shouted "DEATH TO AMERICA" and other anti-American speech.
It is true that not all Moslems are terrorists, But virtually ALL terrorists today are MOSLEM! Do Hindus, Buddhists, Taoists, Shintoists, Christians or even Atheists commit the staggering number of terrorist acts that Moslems DO? When somebody comes to your house to either kill you or convert you, at the very least you should NEVER take your eyes off of him.

 

[Artilleryman]

"What was your VERY FIRST THOUGHT?"

mine was that this once again demonstrates the dangerous downside of so called 'gun free' zones. had a few Soldiers been present that were carrying, someone could have put a round in the major's head before so many innocents were killed or wounded. how many have to die before the anti gun bedwetters learn this concept?

 

[Gunner3456]

mine was that this once again demonstrates the dangerous downside of so called 'gun free' zones. had a few Soldiers been present that were carrying, someone could have put a round in the major's head before so many innocents were killed or wounded. how many have to die before the anti gun bedwetters learn this concept?

Most excellent point.

 

[slingshot1943]

How long do we have to ignor the fact that the Islam religion teaches the killing of infidels? I hope you know who the infidels are.

 

[hm1ing]

Dead Horse…Lets not beat the Muslim issue anymore. Yet, I offer this for discussion? This was a Dr. of Psychology that helped those that had issues themselves! He new the system and the medical community as a resource, yet he took this path because he did not wish to fulfill his commitment to serve (unconditionally).

This is not the first, nor will it be that last that soldiers sign up, take the money but run from service where it counts! Whether it is AWOL, Suicide or something as dramatic as this… This is a social issue that we all can affect. What can we do as a society to assist those that don’t directly ask for help, because they are supposed to be the strong one?


Unconditional service is the most challenging and selfless act one can do…

 

[slingshot1943]

Islam is not the main issue. political correctness is. That is what killed these people.

 

[jimwsea]

With all the Muslim civilians that have been killed by the US military in Iraq and Afghanistan, it must be difficult for a Muslim American soldier to want to be part of the invasion and occupation of these countries. What could a Muslim American soldier be thinking?

Bush invaded Afghanistan for one person - bin Laden, then later admitted that he doesn't think about bin Laden anymore...so why is the US military still there?

Bush invaded Iraq, purposely confusing the public by creating a relationship between bin Laden and Hussein where none existed, and by adamantly stating that there were weapons of mass destruction where none had been detected...so why is the US military still there?

Because of this, hundreds of thousands of middle eastern Muslim civilians have been killed, or forced to flee their homes, or remain in a country where much of their infrastructure has been destroyed. Uranium dust from bunker busters is leading to miscarriages, deformities and cancers. The US is "supposed" to be returning Iraq back to the Iraqis...so why is the US still constructing the world's biggest military base in Baghdad?

This has to be causing internal conflict inside any Muslim who has relatives or any ties to any middle eastern country that has been invaded, manipulated or threatened by the US government and military. At the same time, maybe the military should have been screening these people, and kicking out those who have been engaging in questionable acts or behavior.

There are increasing numbers of soldiers, both Christian and Muslim, who are questioning what the federal government is doing. From some conversations I've had with some (recently) former military, increasing numbers would opt out of the military, particularly if there were decent-paying jobs available to them back home.

Also, could it be that some Muslim American soldiers are being harassed to the breaking point by some of their inflamed, under-informed peers? Remember the Indian Sikh that was killed in Texas right after 9/11 because unknowledgeable persons didn't know the difference between a Sikh turban and a Muslim head-dress...but wanted to take revenge on a raghead? This misinformation still exists.

 

[johnboy]

That is a huge simplification, and not entirely true. The holocaust was rooted in 19th century ideas of race. Religion had little if anything to do with German anti-Semitism. Jews who had converted to Christianity or were not religiously practicing were still killed. No Jew who converted to Christianity or any other religion was spared. Jews who'd converted to Christianity and won medals in WWI were still gassed.

Islam is an entirely different creature. Even the most rabid Kahanist Jews I know are not anti-Arab. I can think of plenty of Arabs who are wonderful people - the publisher of WorldNetDaily, Joseph Farah, is Syrian for example.

No, criticism of Islam is entirely a look at culture and belief, which are well within the purview of discussion. The color of one's skin does determine whether someone is good or evil, but one's culture and beliefs certainly do.

I read the Koran and the Hadith, the news, and history, and frankly the conclusions are obvious. Sure, there are individual muslims who are not evil or violent, but the overall culture is a warlike, expansionist one that will run roughshod over soft, liberal, everyone-wear-a-smile-button Western civ. We will celebrate diversity under a crescent flag.

Sigh. Where's a new Charles Martel when we need one? On a recent trip to Italy, I saw the $50 million mosque in Rome that Saudia Arabia financed - and remembered that Saudi Arabia forbids all importation of the Bible into their own country. Muslims were rioting and burning cars in France and threatening to kill Dutchmen over cartoons. This cultural expansionism will one day swamp Western civ.

Agree w RD....................Muslim extremists ...(EXTREMISTS)are bent on killing Americans anytime anywhere. We must be united against that or pay the extreme price as a country............

 

[Jamie6.5]

Bush invaded Iraq, purposely confusing the public by creating a relationship between bin Laden and Hussein where none existed, and by adamantly stating that there were weapons of mass destruction where none had been detected...so why is the US military still there?

I am tired of people trying to lay this at Bush's feet.
The consensus within Congress and various intelligence agencies in the western world all believed Saddam had WMDs.
Carl Levin, Hillary Clinton, John Kerry, Nancy Pelosi just to name a few are on record in the congressional record as stating they believed so.
Most weren't paying attention in those days shortly after 9/11, but if you REALLY LOOK IT UP you will find that it wasn't Bush "lying to the American public" like the press portrays.

But Sen. Levin And Other Democrats Previously Said That Iraq Was A Part Of The War On Terror.

* Sen. Levin: "The War Against Terrorism Will Not Be Finished As Long As [Saddam Hussein] Is In Power." (CNN's "Late Edition," 12/16/01)


* Sen. Levin: "We Begin With The Common Belief That Saddam Hussein Is A Tyrant And A Threat To The Peace And Stability Of The Region." (Committee On Armed Services, U.S. Senate, Hearing, 9/19/02)


* Sen. Clinton (D-NY): "[Saddam] Has Also Given Aid, Comfort, And Sanctuary To Terrorists, Including Al-Qaida Members, Though There Is Apparently No Evidence Of His Involvement In The Terrible Events Of September 11, 2001. ... This Much Is Undisputed." (Sen. Hillary Clinton, Congressional Record, 10/10/02, p. S10288)


* Sen. Kerry (D-MA) Says Saddam Hussein Is Part Of The "Global Menace" Of Terrorism. CNN'S LARRY KING: "What about enhancing this war, Senator Kerry. What are your thoughts on going further than Afghanistan, all terrorist places ..." KERRY: "Oh, I think we clearly have to keep the pressure on terrorism globally. This doesn't end with Afghanistan by any imagination. And I think the president has made that clear. I think we have made that clear. Terrorism is a global menace. It's a scourge. And it is absolutely vital that we continue, for instance, Saddam Hussein." (CNN's "Larry King Live," 12/14/01)

Sen. Levin Admits That Democrats Also Believed That Saddam Hussein Had Weapons Of Mass Destruction (WMD). SEN. LEVIN: "You know, the administration continues to talk about everybody believed that Saddam Hussein had weapons of mass destruction. That is true, but that isn't the issue." (CNN's "American Morning," 11/14/05)

* Sen. Clinton: "In The Four Years Since The Inspectors, Intelligence Reports Show That Saddam Hussein Has Worked To Rebuild His Chemical And Biological Weapons Stock, His Missile Delivery Capability, And His Nuclear Program. ... It Is Clear, However, That If Left Unchecked, Saddam Hussein Will Continue To Increase His Capability To Wage Biological And Chemical Warfare And Will Keep Trying To Develop Nuclear Weapons." (Sen. Hillary Clinton, Congressional Record, 10/10/02, p. S10288)


* Sen. Rockefeller (D-WV): "There Is Unmistakable Evidence That Saddam Hussein Is Working Aggressively To Develop Nuclear Weapons. And Will Likely Have Nuclear Weapons Within The Next Five Years. And Then Could Have It Earlier If He's Able To Obtain Materials On The Outside Market Which Is Possible. Difficult But Possible." (Sen. John Rockefeller, Congressional Record, 10/10/02, Pg.S10306)


* Sen. Kerry: "According To The CIA's Report, All U.S. Intelligence Experts Agree That Iraq Is Seeking Nuclear Weapons. There Is Little Question That Saddam Hussein Wants To Develop Nuclear Weapons." (Sen. John Kerry, Congressional Record, 10/9/02, pp. S10172-10173)


* Rep. Pelosi (D-CA): "Saddam Hussein Certainly Has Chemical And Biological Weapons. There's No Question About That." (NBC's "Meet The Press," 11/17/02)

 

[johnboy]

Go 6.5!!!!!!Right on!!!!!!!

 

[.45's and .38's]

with people doing this. It will be no time before they try to exterminate the gun community

 

[jordanvraptor]

Since I first posted more info has come to light but I still believe this was not part of an organized terrorist attack. New revelations indicate he was not the peaceable good muslim that initial information suggested. Now as it comes to light the info indicates he was angry at the policies of the USA. His perceived harassment may now have only been his excuse to lash out. It still seems to me to be typical of workplace violence or schoolyard shootings. A lashing out at perceived persecutors whether real or not.

To be honest I'm glad he lived as the blame can now be focused on him and not his weapons although I have seen some reports labelling it the "cop killer" pistol already. AP reports say it was a FN 5.7 pistol. This may explain some initial reports of rifle fire because of the high speed bullet it shoots. Unknown on type of ammo but I doubt he actually had the military armor piercing rounds. I would be curious to know if the lady officer was hit in the vest and if it penetrated. I heard one report that said she was hit in the leg.

 

[CEF1959]

There are 1 billion Moslems in the world. Probably, the majority are decent people who just want to live and let live.
However, every time that some little thing offends them tens of millions of them around the world take to the streets smashing, looting, protesting and threatening the "offender" with death! Remember Salem Rushby(sic)? He wrote a book that Moslems didn't like and they put out a contract on him. Remember that cartoon about Mohammed in a Danish paper? Multi-millions of Moslems around the world went berserk, again threatening the artist with death! Remember the slaughter of innocent Israeli athletes at the Olympics in Berlin? The twin towers (This event caused millions of Moslems around the world to rejoice fervently), subway bombings in Spain and Britain? Plots to destroy Americans that were thwarted by the FBI?
The former head of Homeland Security (Wasn't his name Ridge?) said that Moslems were entering Mexico, shaving off their beards, wearing Mexican style clothing and then entering the USA-not seeking jobs like the Mexicans-but planning on destruction. The FBI says that many of the Islamic Mosques in America are meeting places for fanatic American-hating Jihadists. Surely you've all seen some of their demonstrations in Washington, DC where they shouted "DEATH TO AMERICA" and other anti-American speech.
It is true that not all Moslems are terrorists, But virtually ALL terrorists today are MOSLEM! Do Hindus, Buddhists, Taoists, Shintoists, Christians or even Atheists commit the staggering number of terrorist acts that Moslems DO? When somebody comes to your house to either kill you or convert you, at the very least you should NEVER take your eyes off of him.

This long anti-Muslim scree was posted in reaction to a horrible event, carried out (apparently) by a lone gunman, a native-born American citizen, a US Army Officer, a psychiatrist, whose religion was Islam.

What's sad is that I KNOW there are are lots of people on this board who agree with dario.

And let me make this clear: I am a conservative Republican, gun owning supporter of the Second Amendment, but I am NOT one of you.