Loading Bullet Through Muzzle In Conventional Rifle.

[arakboss]

The factory ammo had at least three times the recoil of all of my Unique muzzle loading loads. Not comfortable with tshirt and carbine stock.

 

[Certaindeaf]

Unique at 12 to 13gr is the powder I have been using. I have done six loads between two pieces of brass with no sizing. I do not have a 50 Beowulf die set. I am going to run more loads until the brass splits or I can't get them to chamber. I will run a couple of rounds of the factory ammo today as well.

Harry M. Pope shot 30,000 rounds with one piece of brass.

 

[osprey]

I have a bit of parallel experience in this realm. Some will remember I had a single shot cva 45-70 bored and breech threaded to take a brass adapter that houses a lr primer making it a modern muzzleloader. With .452 projectiles of proper hardness to obturate in bore, I achieve great accuracy with both blackpowder substitute and modern powder both. https://www.northwestfirearms.com/t...ne-we-dont-need-no-stinking-cartridge.357503/

 

[dangerranger60]

I doubt your case will ever split. You are not resizing, crimping , etc...What will eventually happen is the primer hole will wear out.
Unique is a fast powder. you might want to try something like H4227. And shoot for a speed around 1500 fps.
Its the lower end of rifle data, and not so fast that it will strip off the lead of a lubed lead bullet. But will give a BP like trajectory. And be consistent.
What more could you ask for. DR

 

[DizzyJ]

How do you upload video?

Probably have to post to YouTube and link it here is my guess.

 

[Certaindeaf]

Even though Pope-Ballard rifles had removable false muzzles they'd generally seat bullets into the breech with a removable adjustable ram and then insert a primed and charged case behind it.

 

[CLT65]

If it were me, I'd just get a bullet mold and work up a light but functional load, conventionally. I've done plenty of tinkering and learning myself, but can't say that I've ever tried to muzzle-load a modern rifle.

Some years back I did buy a whole bunch of 7.62x54R blanks. They were really cheap, and I bought a lot of them, but then I couldn't think of any practical use for them at all. I found that if I took a .31 round ball (I have a mold- same size as a piece of #0 buck shot), and gently pushed it into the chamber throat with a wooden dowel, I could chamber and shoot a blank behind it, with reasonable accuracy.

In general, it's very bad practice to ever put a projectile in front of a blank, so I recommend against it even though I did it. It's just not designed for it, and there's a risk of damage. The reason I got away with it was because the little .31 round ball is light and has a very short bearing surface in the bore. I would NEVER put a regular bullet in front of a blank.

It worked, but I gave up on it pretty quick, just didn't use them. Real cast bullet loads were way more practical. So I have a bunck of blanks in my garage that I'll probably never use. They were cheap enough that it doesn't matter.

 

[arakboss]

Probably have to post to YouTube and link it here is my guess.

There wasn't much to see.

Here is the process I used.

Step 1. insert 50 Beowulf case with (no primer, no powder) and a 7.62x39 case (also no primer, no powder) upside down in 50 Beo case into the rifle (full battery).






Step 2. insert projectile from muzzle end and ram down until it hits the combo cases inserted at step 1.


Step 3. eject the combo cases

Step 4 insert charged case to full battery and the rifle is ready to fire.


Since I didn't have a 50 Beowulf die set I used the decapping pieces from a Lee 30-06 Loader set to remove the spent primer, I was able to install a new primer with the same reloader set or I could do it with a 7.62x39 shell holder and the priming arm on my Lee press. I then charged the case with about 12 to 13gr of Unique powder. After putting the powder in the case, I put a circular piece of thin cardboard over the powder charge to keep the powder from spilling out of the case. These could be preloaded like this for reloading the rifle in the field.

 

[arakboss]

There wasn't much to see.

Here is the process I used.

Step 1. insert 50 Beowulf case with (no primer, no powder) and a 7.62x39 case (also no primer, no powder) upside down in 50 Beo case into the rifle (full battery).


View attachment 1234085



Step 2. insert projectile from muzzle end and ram down until it hits the combo cases inserted at step 1.


Step 3. eject the combo cases

Step 4 insert charged case to full battery and the rifle is ready to fire.


Since I didn't have a 50 Beowulf die set I used a decapping pieces from a Lee 30-06 Loader set to remove the spent primer, I was able to install a new primer with the same reloader set or I could do it with a 7.62x39 shell holder and the priming arm on my Lee press. I then charged the case with about 12 to 13gr of Unique powder. After putting the powder in the case, I put a circular piece of thin cardboard over the powder charge to keep the powder from spilling out of the case. These could be preloaded like this for reloading the rifle in the field.




View attachment 1234102

This loading process will have the effect of an enlarged case capacity. The charge I used should've created less pressure than if it had been used in a case with the bullet loaded in the case.

 

[HighlandLofts]

I can't believe this stupid talk is still taking place.

 

[arakboss]

Stick around if you want to see development of shot shell loads for this 50 Beowulf beast.

 

[msgriff]

A bit of a tangent, but this thread reminded me of one of the three criteria originally required when the Army requested submittals for the Next Generation Squad Weapon. That requirement was more carried ammo with "other than metal cartridge case technology". That requirement was somewhat abandoned for reasons I won't go into, but "outside the box" thinking like arakboss is doing has real world possibilities.

 

[arakboss]

Reminds me of weatherby testing a rifle with a bullet in the bore AND a live round loaded behind it. Both bullets pushed out successfully with no damage. One of those "do not try this at home" activities. They did it to prove you can't blow up a Weatherby mk v. No other action is good for 200,000 c.u.p.

I had not heard of that testing prior to you mentioning it but here is a little more detail on what weatherby did:

"Proof testing of the Mark V action[edit]
Weatherby had intended that the new action would be the safest and strongest bolt action available. The rifle was marketed as "The World's Strongest Bolt Action". The Mark V action has been tested to be able to contain up to 200,000 CUP (Copper Units of Pressure).[5]
The testing of the rifle was conducted on a production rifle chambered for the .300 Weatherby Magnum. Before testing was to be conducted, very thorough measurements of the rifle were taken so as to provide a benchmark for the testing which was to be undertaken.[6]
The first test was conducted using a 180 gr (12 g) bullet propelled by 82 gr (5.3 g) of Du Pont #4350 powder. This load provided 65,000 psi (4,500 bar) of pressure. This load did not show any pressure or extraction issues with the new Mark V action but caused a slight sticking of the cartridge case in the Mauser style rifle design. Subsequent testing was performed using the same 180 gr (12 g) bullet and using a powder charge of Du Pont #4350 which increased by increments of 2 gr (0.13 g) for each test thereafter.[3]
The second testing which was conducted with the 84 gr (5.4 g) showed no signs of pressure nor issues with extraction even though the measured pressure was close to 75,000 psi (5,200 bar). Firing this load in the Mauser rifle led to a blown primer and extreme difficulty was experienced in extracting the spent case.[3]
Using 86 gr (5.6 g) of Du Pont #4350 the cartridge began to show signs of pressure in the Mark V action. However, the case did not stick and extraction was performed easily. Breech pressure was found to be between 85,000–95,000 psi (5,900–6,600 bar). Measurements of the spent case showed that the case had stretched at the belt a mere .0005 in (0.013 mm).[3]
The spent case from the 88 gr (5.7 g) test led to a slightly sticking case, which in turn led to a slight difficulty in opening of the bolt. Measurements from the case belt showed that the belt had expanded from .533 in (13.5 mm) to .535 in (13.6 mm). The pressure generated by this load was 100,000 psi (6,900 bar).
The fifth test was conducted used a load of 90 gr (5.8 g) of Du Pont 4350. Firing this load led to some difficulty in opening the bolt, and the case was extracted when opened. The belt of the case still measured .535 in (13.6 mm). A difference in the diameter between the bolt head and the diameter of the barrel of .002 in (0.051 mm) per side was noted. No bulging of the bolt, receiver or the barrel was noted. Headspace was measured to be the same as prior to the testing.[3]

Further testing was conducted with a 180 gr (12 g) bullet lodged into the throat of the barrel. A cartridge loaded with the standard charge of 78 gr (5.1 g) of Du Pont 4350 and a 180 gr (12 g) bullet was fired into the back of the first bullet. It was found that both bullets exited the barrel. The primer had been pierced and the exiting gas entered into the bolt and hit the firing pin sleeve, which was loosened slightly. The bolt was opened by hand but the cartridge stayed stuck in the chamber. When the case was tapped out, it was found to be in good condition except for its pierced primer. It was found that the barrel, just in front of the receiver ring, had expanded from 1.147 in (29.1 mm) to 1.1496 in (29.20 mm). The diameter of the bolt head had expanded from .7178 in (18.23 mm) to .7190 in (18.26 mm). The head space had increased from .2163 in (5.49 mm) to .2174 in (5.52 mm). All other dimensions had stayed constant. This test was conducted 15 times. A test was conducted with a 220 gr (14 g) bullet lodged into the bore of the rifle and a 180 gr (12 g) grain bullet was fired into the back of this bullet. The result of this test found that the cartridge case head had expanded to .545 in (13.8 mm). After these additional 15 tests it was found that the head space was set back only a mere .001 in (0.025 mm).[3]"