What is the best loading system

[CLT65]

I last loaded 45 ACP over 10 years ago and still have some ready to go from that batch. Obviously I don't shoot as much as I used to, but when loading for the 45 I rarely load less than 500 rounds at a time. That's where the progressive really shines.

Very true. For decades I scoffed at progressive presses, wasn't interested, didn't need one, my old Rock Chucker was plenty good enough for me.

Then one day a dozen years ago or so, I ran across a Dillon 550 for so cheap I couldn't pass it up. I've never used any other progressive so I can't compare it, but it's a good, solid machine that has worked well for me.like I mentioned before, I wouldn't want to go back to loading volume on the single stage.

If you never load or shoot volume, a good single stage press is fine. Loading up a box or two off .270 for hunting season and a couple boxes of .38 or .45 now and then, you'll be perfectly happy with the single stage.

If you load volume and don't tinker around with small batches and oddball stuff, then the Dillon (or whatever progressive) is a great choice.

For someone like me though, the ideal setup is both. I like the Dillon when I use it, but I also have numerous die sets in many calibers, including oddball old surplus rounds, and a box full of shellholders. Trying to buy tool heads and shell plates for everything I load would be an exercise in frustration and put me in the poorhouse.

So yeah, the correct answer is "BOTH", a good Dillon or equivalent, in the flavor of your choice, and a solid single stage to go with it.

It's a bit like asking what the best hammer is. Should I get a framing hammer, a roofing hammer, a ball-peen hammer? Well, it depends. The average person really needs more than one.

 

[RVTECH]

I am sure progressive has it's place, with the right conditions and needs however In my 'life' of reloading I have seen far more progressives for sale, used - or bought new and never used, than any other presses.

Of All of the reloaders I know, or have known, probably 80% use(d) single stage, or turret styles.

I was planning on upgrading to a turret however I was given a Co-Ax press and found the convenience and speed of the shell holder, the quick die change and just the design of it satisfied my needs well and streamlined my reloading.

I tend to do a lot of pre-load 'prep' work and this also has helped my reloading 'systems'.

 

[Spitpatch]

Are you a Handloader or a Reloader? (Some of us change stripes depending on the caliber or gun.)

If you intend to be a Reloader and do it for production rate's sake, having done it as a Handloader first will allow you to trouble shoot your progressive press swiftly.

If you intend to build the very best ammo you can build (and handload for the pleasure and satisfaction and science of it), doing it as a Handloader first may allow you to see why a progressive press may not be necessary (or even appropriate) at all.

 

[oremike]

I will say if I wasn't a manufacturer any longer I'd sell off one of my L-N-L's and Mark 7 presses. Keeping only the Rock Chucker and one L-N-L. I would only use the Hornady once in a while to top off my ammo cans with my pet loads for that caliber. The rest of the loading would be done on the Rock Chucker. My thinking is that I'd have less pistol calibers that I shoot regularly and more rifle loading I'd want to do.

 

[Mikej]

Are you a Handloader or a Reloader? (Some of us change stripes depending on the caliber or gun.)

If you intend to be a Reloader and do it for production rate's sake, having done it as a Handloader first will allow you to trouble shoot your progressive press swiftly.

If you intend to build the very best ammo you can build (and handload for the pleasure and satisfaction and science of it), doing it as a Handloader first may allow you to see why a progressive press may not be necessary (or even appropriate) at all.

Beautifully stated!

Hallelujah!! I'm a Hand-loader!

 

[JDubDub]

As mentioned above, it Ddepends on why you're reloading. 50 RDS a year for hunting season? Single stage. Thousands of rounds of 9mm for plinking or competition? Progressive hands down.

I have a Dillon 550, an old Rockchucker and a Lee classic single stage. At this point I do all of my actual loading on the Dillon. If I'm reloading rifle rounds, I basically use the 550 like a turret press and load each round 1 at a time. I end up with rounds that are plenty accurate for my uses. The single stage presses are just used for brass processing and resizing my cast bullets. For me, the most time consuming and annoying part of reloading is fiddling with getting dies set. The Hornady lock and load bushing system helps with single stage presses, but I can swap calibers on my 550 in under 5 minutes without rushing.

I'm not normally much of a fan boi, but I'm definitely a Dillon fan. My 550 is more than 30 years old and has only had 1 major failure. Dillon sent me the replacement part in 3 days (mid-COVID), no questions asked. Not bad for the age and ridiculous number of rounds I've loaded.

 

[dangerranger60]

For me, the most time consuming and annoying part of reloading is fiddling with getting dies set. The Hornady lock and load bushing system helps with single stage presses, but I can swap calibers on my 550 in under 5 minutes without rushing.

Once I'm happy with my die setting I lock in the setting with a Lock Ring. I have some die sets that have not been readjusted in 20 years or more. I can change a die in under 30 seconds. The Secret is using good lock rings. The Hornaday LNL bushing is just a new take on lock rings. I have not used them but I would not shy away from them. None of my presses are threaded for them. DR

 

[front_sight]

You have already received excellent advice from many folks above. I will add my vote to the eventual BOTH camp, and give you some reasons. As background I am almost 69 and have been reloading since the 1970's. I reloaded LOTS of .45 ACP during my USPSA years in the 1980's, starting with a Rock Chucker and then adding a new Dillon 550 right after they came out as an upgrade to the RL450. I have reloaded over a dozen different calibers from .380 Auto to .44 Mag, and .223 to 8mm Mauser.

As I recall your original post talked about plinking or "cover fire" for a .308. If that is all you want to do with a press and you are going to shoot a couple of hundred rounds a month max then a single stage press will be fine for your needs. The advantage of starting there is that you will learn not only the basics of handloading, but some nuance that might be lost on a progressive. You will be able to cheaply transition to other calibers too.

You would also be well-served with a Dillon 550 for that quality level and volume of loading. If your budget allows for it then you will be happy there in Dillon land - just remember that you will have to buy the more expensive Dillon carbide die sets too. And nobody supports their product and users like Dillon, although they are not quite as friendly on the phone as they used to be.

But here's the thing we can all guarantee you - while your stated goal may be what you say it is now, it will not stay that way after you start reloading. Two things are going to happen and they take you in different directions such that having two loading systems becomes even more necessary.

First, you are going to find out that there are intermediate steps in reloading that are generally done on a single-stage press that are either not done on a progressive, or are done differently. When reloading bottleneck rifle rounds on a progressive press you take new or once-fired brass that has been tumbled and cleaned, and then let the machine deprime it, prime the case, fill the powder, seat the bullet, and maybe add a crimp. All in one continuous operation. The result is a round which from a quality standpoint is not as precise as factory ammo, but may shoot as well or better since the powder charge and bullet seating has been developed as optimum for your rifle. Yes, there will be plenty of people here who argue that their ammo off their Dillon 550 is as good or better than factory. But I assure you that the concentricity and perpendiculatrity of the dies to the shell plate are not as precise as factory loading machines, nor is the primer seating depth, neck wall thickness and concentricity, and bullet seating runout simply cannot equal factory machines just due to the design and flexibility of a Dillon 550. (Side note - I spent more than a few hour in the Remington plant in Lonoke AR working on their metallic cartridge and shotshell loading machines and I can tell you for sure their machines and processes are more massive and accurate and repeatable than you can be on a Dillon 550.)

Does this matter to you? Not for plinking it doesn't. But sooner or later you will end up adding additional processing steps to your brass in search of the best accuracy you can get. You will learn to lubricate your cases during sizing and depriming to minimize case stretch. You will buy a primer pocket conditioning tool. You will buy or make a loading block with holes specific to the caliber you are loading. You will buy hand-priming tool to get a better "feel" for seating primers and more consistency. And as those fired cases grow in length due to the resizing you will buy a case trimming system. You will get a better powder measure and delivery system. You will end up with a competition bullet seater with micrometer adjustment. And then a comparitor to work with your digital micrometer to measure case length and loaded round OAL. And eventually as you slide farther down the rabbit hole, you will start trimming case neck thickness to attain a consistent bullet pull, and measure the loaded rounds for seated bullet concentricity and tip runout. Oh, and when that happens the boxes of bullets will have different names on them like Matchking or Berger.

And you will love it. You will love the process and the challenge and you will seek out others who can also speak the reloading talk.

But you will want to do all of that on a single-stage press as many of those operations are done singly in batches of 50 or 100 cases. The things you learn on a single-stage will serve you very well as you set up, use, and troubleshoot a progressive press later on.

Which you will need when the handgun loading bug and necessity hits. When you start wanting to load hundreds of lead wadcutters, Blue Bullets, really low-recoil steel plate loads, and other specialty ammunition, for the money you just can't beat the volume and quality you can turn out on a Dillon 550. With carbide dies you don't have to lube most pistol cases, and you don't have to interrupt the progressive system to check and trim case length. The primer seating is good enough and generally trouble free if you stay away from military or Euro brass. The powder system is very accurate on the 550 and you will develop a feel for the process. And once you properly adjust the case mouth flare / powder drop die you will get bullets seated as consistently as the brass lot variation will allow. Changing calibers from a small pistol primed one to a large will take you about 15-20 minutes including cleaning until you get the hang of doing it a few times. But all in all, you will love the Dillon 550 for your high-volume pistol or small caliber rifle reloading.

And it will change the way that range days feel, as you won't be so worried about the cost of shooting.

There is another reason to start with a single stage like a Rock Chucker. It is cheaper to get into it, and potentially easier to find used gear. Men my age are beginning to age out of of shooting and if you are patient you may be able to find a complete used setup. It may not be the setup you would buy for yourself if starting from scratch but it will let you get far enough into the hobby to determine if you like it enough to keep going.

Because there are some who just don't like reloading and are willing to just buy large lots of ammo online delivered to their door. My son shoots a $4500 Stacatto 9mm setup in competition. He visited me last summer and I spent a whole day showing him the basics of reloading, discussing the advantages, then set him up on my Dillon and let him load 150 rounds. of 9mm. That was all it took for him to confirm he had no interest in reloading. He buys 5000 rounds of 9mm at a time at volume repeat customer pricing, and would rather be out on the range than reloading. So be prepared for the possibility that you don't enjoy it, so maybe confirm that with a budget purchase before you jump in the deep end. Or find a buddy with a 550 and go try it out.

I find it to be a VERY enjoyable, productive, and stress-reducing hobby. I hope you find that you love it as much as I do.

 

[ron]

just remember that you will have to buy the more expensive Dillon carbide die sets too

Good post. We are close to the same age. I started loading in the 70's too, with a Rick Chucker and shot
45 ACP USPSA in the 80's at TCGC. I don't agree with the part about only using Dillon carbide dies.
I use RCBS Carbide pistol dies on my Dillon 550?

 

[JDubDub]

Good post. We are close to the same age. I started loading in the 70's too, with a Rick Chucker and shot
45 ACP USPSA in the 80's at TCGC. I don't agree with the part about only using Dillon carbide dies.
I use RCBS Carbide pistol dies on my Dillon 550?

I use RCBS dies for 45acp on my 550. I did pick up a separate seat/crimp die so I can do those as separate operations in stations 3 and 4. The Dillon dies aren't much more expensive than other carbide pistol dies And I generally prefer them for volume reloading.

 

[RVTECH]

Hallelujah!! I'm a Hand-loader!

DItto this! As it describes me as well!

I got into reloading as an extension of my interest in guns and shooting, and high 'volumes' of ammo were never a consideration or need seeing as I started out with levers, bolts and revolvers however even now owning a few semi autos I can easily crank out what I need for a shooting session or two fairly quickly and conveniently between my Rockchucker and Co-Ax.

Shooting for me is convenient and close so my 'sessions' tend to be shorter and I don't go through a lot of ammo at the time.

 

[Mikej]

Another excellent write up! But....

perpendiculatrity

I don't think I've ever seen this word before? Took me several second to say it, in my mind.
And yeah, I get what it means.

 

[Dozer99]

Start with the basics. Read a few reloading books cover to cover. I like the current Lee reloading manual for the fundamentals of reloading. Good case prep is essential no matter what press you use. I spent more time on case prep than I ever do on the actual act of loading. Make sure you have everything you need before you start and don't get distracted. And last and most importantly, enjoy yourself.

Oh and a Lyman 310 is the way I started out.

 

[Spitpatch]

"I spent more time on case prep than I ever do on the actual act of loading."

Bingo.

Those that don't are missing something (or things) significant. By far, most reloading "problems" can be traced to case prep.

Progressive presses unfortunately encourage (for some) a level of neglect in this regard..

 

[front_sight]

Good post. We are close to the same age. I started loading in the 70's too, with a Rick Chucker and shot
45 ACP USPSA in the 80's at TCGC. I don't agree with the part about only using Dillon carbide dies.
I use RCBS Carbide pistol dies on my Dillon 550?

I definitely mispoke on that one - I have several caliber setups with RCBS carbide dies. I should have said you will have to use Dillon's case mouth flare / powder measure die.

 

[front_sight]

Another excellent write up! But....



I don't think I've ever seen this word before? Took me several second to say it, in my mind.
And yeah, I get what it means.

Yep - a few too many consonants there!

 

[clueless]

.308 as a primary to start and rounds per session isn't something I'm concerned with ill do what's necessary. Time money and volume are things I will consider on the journey and as needed to keep the trigger going. I am very mechanical and experienced with most precision measuring instruments. I have one son that is a machinist who will be doing this with me and another who is going to school for mechanical engineering. But I'm not here to brag about how much we can do. I don't think its possible to stump me on any technical issue. Not saying I know it all but if I wanted the knowledge I'm not afraid of studying.

One of the things that you will want to do in hand loading is to experiment with powders, charge weights, and seating depth. This is especially so for rifle cartridges. These experiments are easier to do with a single stage as the setup is more time consuming and less precise on a Dillon. Also, it is hard to get as precise on a progressive as you can do with the single stage. For example, the exact seating depth can vary depending on what is happening in the position that sizes the case. Even if you move to a progressive for your primary and bulk loading, the single stage will always have value. For example, you might keep it set up with a universal decapper, or a collet type bullet puller. (A good quality turret is comparable to a single stage press but with more flexibility and correspondingly higher price.)

Many good rifle powders are of the extruded type that do not meter well in a Dillon powder measure. For example, Varget or 4064, both of which you might want to use for 308. There are some procedures to polish and wax internal surfaces of a Dillon powder measure to make it better. I would do those, but it still is not a great fit if precision is more important than throughput. An electronic charge dispenser like the Frankford Armory can meter these powders well, and you can use it with the Dillon.

I have a Dillon and keep a setup at the ready for any kind of 9mm. The throughput is fantastic and it satisfies my needs for precision in all straight wall pistol cases. Sometimes I will load some 223 on it, maybe using an electronic powder measure for extruded powders. There is a big speed hit to do that, but overall it is still a time saver. For precision 223 and all other rifle calibers I use a turret press. Some competitors that need both speed and precision have figured out how to do it on a Dillon, but it usually involves multiple passes through the machine as they separate brass prep from charging and seating.

 

[Yarome]

It probably hasn't been mentioned yet ... but I would say a dillon 550 is about the best bang for your buck, IMHO. Simple operation that is great for beginners and capable enough for hard core loaders. The C.S. and warranty is also something they stand behind. If you get real serious about it, accessories abound that can improve loading accuracy and production rate... and having been around for ages... used parts/equipment are readily and affordably available.

Not much to find fault with.

 

[front_sight]

One of the things that you will want to do in hand loading is to experiment with powders, charge weights, and seating depth. This is especially so for rifle cartridges. These experiments are easier to do with a single stage as the setup is more time consuming and less precise on a Dillon. Also, it is hard to get as precise on a progressive as you can do with the single stage.

Many good rifle powders are of the extruded type that do not meter well in a Dillon powder measure. For example, Varget or 4064, both of which you might want to use for 308. There are some procedures to polish and wax internal surfaces of a Dillon powder measure to make it better. I would do those, but it still is not a great fit if precision is more important than throughput. An electronic charge dispenser like the Frankford Armory can meter these powders well, and you can use it with the Dillon.

Very good advice here and for the new reloader a couple of things you may not realize.

When "clueless" says experiment what this means is that as you get into accuracy loading, you select a bullet you want to shoot (based on your barrel's twist rate, the application, and the distance you will be shooting). Then you select powders you want to try that will give you the velocity you are looking for with that bullet. So you load a few rounds with that bullet and powder, with a range of powder measurements. You can usually tell within 5 rounds, and certainly no more than 10 whether that combination shows any promise in your rifle. So you load 5 rounds at the recommended weight of 45 grains (just for instance), then 5 more at 44.5 grains. 5 more at 44, then 5 at 45.5, and 5 at 46 grains. Then you do the same thing with powder #2.

After shooting you then settle on the most promising powder and charge weight, and then you start varying the charge weight in 2/10ths grains, OAL and trying different primers, all the while loading only 5 or 10 rounds of each combination.

Can you see where this is going? Can you imagine doing that load development on a progressive press and changing the powder type and weight, and seating depth for each 5 rounds? I think you can see why even veteran shooters who shoot in volume for some calibers still hang on to their single-stage setup.

And clueless is right on about 4064 and Varget for 308. Two of my top three favorites. They are extruded, long-grain powders. They are like skinny grains of rice. They don't flow as easily and consistently as spherical or flat disk powders. Volumetric powder measures tend to jam or cut the long granules and you can feel this as you drop the powder charge. Sometimes you want to reject the powder charge and pick the case up and pour the charge back into the measure. This disrupts the progressive flow on a Dillon press and is MUCH easier when you are dispensing powder into cases in a loading block for single-stage loading.

And when you really get into accuracy reloading you might start weighing every powder charge. This usually involves dispensing in a lighter-than-desired charge into your scale pan and then trickling in more powder until the charge weight is correct to the exact desired 1/10th of a grain. After you do that for a while you will realize that unless you have a custom target rig, you can't shoot well enough to see the difference and will go back to dispensing directly from a quality powder measure to the cartridge case. But that siren song of screamer groups is strong at first and you will end up in that phase for at least a short while.

Someone above also mentioned not getting distracted when reloading. Now that is something you will learn real quick. It happens to everyone and you really have to be careful. When loading 9mm pistol cartridges an undercharge or no powder, overcharge, or double charge is easy to see down into the case and easier to avoid. With a 308 case you may have a hard time seeing down into the dark hole of the case to verify the correct powder charge unless you select a powder that really fills the case. When distracted It is much easier to finish the one round on a single-stage, or remove that one case for inspection. On a progressive, you have to stop the whole process and verify if you have charged that case, or seated the primer in the case at the decap/prime position.

There is a saying that you don't know what you don't know. This is VERY true of reloading. Find a mentor near you and learn as much as you can. Nothing like seeing it in person!

 

[front_sight]

I would say a dillon 550 is about the best bang for your buck, IMHO.

The number of people (including me) who have one and sing its praises certainly supports your excellent point.