Is this civil war starting?

[Certaindeaf]

Did jesus have epilepsy?

Do you?

 

[Knobgoblin]

Do you?

Lol.
I guess they thought I might when I was a little kid

 

[Knobgoblin]

My dad used call me a spaz

 

[uberguy]

It seems inevitable unless something changes and soon.

 

[Heyjoe]

Sometimes I think you all live on another planet.

 

[Phantom Man]

Sometimes I think you all live on another planet.

I call it Opposite World. Yes we live there.

 

[Heyjoe]

The upside down, clown world. No idea how you keep your composure.

Of course maybe I'm jaded by all this psycho "news" coming out of p-land. May be a great place to raise a family.

 

[RedCardinalSeven]

Multiple rifles aimed right at him without legal cause would be a great start.

I'm not sure what your point is but here's some context you left out: "... but he should have the right to escape and hit people with his vehicle in the process if he has a reasonable fear that they imminently intend to kill him or inflict serious bodily injury upon him and he has no other reasonable and safe means of escape or defense. However, I don't see that scenario here on his part or on the part of the crowd."

I don't claim the video always tells the whole story, it usually doesn't. In any case, to claim the right to use deadly force--vehicle or firearm--the man in the truck would, under Oregon law, have to "reasonably [believe] that the other person is ... Using or about to use unlawful deadly physical force against a person."

However, at the outset, he did not, to my mind, act like someone who reasonably thought he was about to be subject to unlawful deadly force. Instead, he stopped his vehicle and got in a shouting match with protestors.

Had he truly and reasonably thought he was about to be shot he should thrown his truck in reverse or moved rapidly forward through the crowd to safety or stopped and opened fire. But by doing none of those things he manifested an understanding that he did not truly believe he was in a situation that justified his own use of lethal force. The fact that protestors did not actually shoot him reinforces that.

Then after he got through the crowd with his truck and was in the clear, he stopped again and got out of his vehicle. There's a point where a protestor levels a rifle at him and he draws his pistol. I would agree he might possibly have had a right to fire in self-defense then but, once again, he didn't do so. It's probably a very good thing he didn't because he had already created a legally dubious situation for himself by both his prior behavior and when he stopped his truck and got out amidst armed protestors.

There's no "duty to retreat" in Oregon law but the use of deadly force in self-defense has to be informed by a reasonable belief in your own peril. Despite "Multiple rifles aimed right at him without legal cause ..." truck guy didn't act like someone who was in fear of his life. Maybe he should have. However, having comported himself that way and gone unscathed it's not clearly how he could, mere moments later, articulate a reasonable belief that he was in peril after he stopped the truck the second time.

 

[barnabus1999]

I'm not sure what your point is but here's some context you left out: "... but he should have the right to escape and hit people with his vehicle in the process if he has a reasonable fear that they imminently intend to kill him or inflict serious bodily injury upon him and he has no other reasonable and safe means of escape or defense. However, I don't see that scenario here on his part or on the part of the crowd."

I don't claim the video always tells the whole story, it usually doesn't. In any case, to claim the right to use deadly force--vehicle or firearm--the man in the truck would, under Oregon law, have to "reasonably [believe] that the other person is ... Using or about to use unlawful deadly physical force against a person."

However, at the outset, he did not, to my mind, act like someone who reasonably thought he was about to be subject to unlawful deadly force. Instead, he stopped his vehicle and got in a shouting match with protestors.

Had he truly and reasonably thought he was about to be shot he should thrown his truck in reverse or moved rapidly forward through the crowd to safety or stopped and opened fire. But by doing none of those things he manifested an understanding that he did not truly believe he was in a situation that justified his own use of lethal force. The fact that protestors did not actually shoot him reinforces that.

Then after he got through the crowd with his truck and was in the clear, he stopped again and got out of his vehicle. There's a point where a protestor levels a rifle at him and he draws his pistol. I would agree he might possibly have had a right to fire in self-defense then but, once again, he didn't do so. It's probably a very good thing he didn't because he had already created a legally dubious situation for himself by bith his prior behavior and when he stopped his truck and got out amidst armed protestors.

There's no "duty to retreat" in Oregon law but the use of deadly force in self-defense has to be informed by a reasonable belief in your own peril. Despite "Multiple rifles aimed right at him without legal cause ..." truck guy didn't act like someone who was in fear of his life. Maybe he should have. However, having comported himself that way and gone unscathed it's not clearly how he could, mere moments later, articulate a reasonable belief that he was in peril after he stopped the truck the second time.

Jumping back in on a heated topic you bring up a point I had not considered. Thinking

No his life was threatened. Ones first reaction is self then property.

all your rationale is not the same as death now

 

[barnabus1999]

Please God let this stop

 

[Ridge Walker]

Please God let this stop

Yep. As the old saw goes: He helps those who help themselves.

Last year the Fascist Brownshirts showed up in Casper, WY. They did their march thing. They started out all boisterous and loud. By the end they were pretty quiet after passing block after block of streets lined with armed citizens standing by ready to guard the peace and security of the downtown area. Most of the Cops were busy writing tickets and having their cars towed for illegal parking.

I know of a young man that got jumped and knocked unconscious and robbed there. He didn't file a report. Because if the police knew about it, he would become a suspect later. You see saw his assailant's face right before the 2x4 turned his light.

 

[edzz]

Insurgency can be met with insurgency tactics.
Recognize the goals of your adversaries and make them impossible.

They want tough guys with macho trucks to start going all mad max in town. This generates video evidence to share, and the media will use it.
Cloud the optics if you can, grey man is great, but wouldn't it look bad if the cars being attacked had these types of stickers? They peel right off

View attachment 879617

I'm kind of thinking that this last sign may be fitting for most of us here.

 

[GWS]

The lefts idea of reducing crime? Legalize it..
Meanwhile they want to disarm the law abiding gun possessors now and if that works just maybe they will get around to the inner cities. It's a 100 year plan so be patient....
If we have a war let's remain civil on this site.

That's how they do it in California
They raised the dollar amount on what qualified as a felony theft and voila! They bragged about having lowered the number of felonies!!

 

[EHJ]

Man drives down public street...
Man's vehicle is blocked in by 2 suv's with BLACKED OUT TAGS - one of which actually drives into his lane and the other pulls to the side to block his exits.
3 (THREE) armed gunmen approach from the front and sides - all gunmen are aiming their weapons at him as the little shorty with the (SHOCKWAVE?) SBS follows from behind using their blocking vehicle as cover...

As of now - NO local news has covered this. But I'm getting calls from around the country from friends who know more about what happened than people who live here.

 

[nwslopoke]

It's more than a little frustrating when people try to inform me that this isn't happening. That people driving pickups with US flags on them are the people I am supposed to be threatened by. Still haven't seen one video supporting any of those false and ignorant claims. This really has turned into Animal Farm. Bleating sheep can't read the writing on the side of the barn.

 

[Certaindeaf]

Sometimes I think you all live on another planet.

Define "living".

 

[ilikegunspdx]

Maxine Bernstein, the one who did balanced and objective reporting on rheinhole murderer, including the connection discovered by NWFA members and sent to her, did an article on the event here:

Police investigating armed confrontation on North Portland street

Videos circulating on social media show the confrontation at North Alberta Street and Michigan Avenue between people in a crowd and the motorist, Joseph Hall, who remains hospitalized.

www.oregonlive.com

 

[EHJ]

Maxine Bernstein, the one who did balanced and objective reporting on rheinhole murderer, including the connection discovered by NWFA members and sent to her, did an article on the event here:

Police investigating armed confrontation on North Portland street

Videos circulating on social media show the confrontation at North Alberta Street and Michigan Avenue between people in a crowd and the motorist, Joseph Hall, who remains hospitalized.

www.oregonlive.com

Well it seems her balance beam is off level again.
But then again - it looks like they are the only ones reporting out there - and the first 3/4 of the article's skew focusing on 'man with a gun' I'm sure had to be made just to get this on an O-live discussion table much less an article. Glad they at least added the pertinent details. At the very end.
No mention of blacked out tags - and a marching army of rifle molesters harassing motorists - long before this poor guy even ended up on the scene.

 

[ilikegunspdx]

Well it seems her balance beam is off level again.
But then again - it looks like they are the only ones reporting out there - and the first 3/4 of the article's skew focusing on 'man with a gun' I'm sure had to be made just to get this on an O-live discussion table much less an article. Glad they at least added the pertinent details. At the very end.
No mention of blacked out tags - and a marching army of rifle molesters harassing motorists - long before this poor guy even ended up on the scene.

Maxine Bernstein creates long articles with lots of details and you can expect this article to get longer as she gets more first hand info. That's the way it was when we reported the rheinhole murderer getting shot in the arm connection to her. She reported everything, without editing it down to just facts that supported one side only. It's rare to see objective reporting nowadays when it used to be the norm.

 

[EHJ]

Maxine Bernstein creates long articles with lots of details and you can expect this article to get longer as she gets more first hand info. That's the way it was when we reported the rheinhole murderer getting shot in the arm connection to her. She reported everything, without editing it down to just facts that supported one side only. It's rare to see objective reporting nowadays when it used to be the norm.

I appreciate her and the effort. No doubt. Gotta use the right bait if you want fish. And the first half of that article was all bait for the local trout.
I just hope they get gut hooked and are forced to digest the entire thing.