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tkdguy

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We have to all admit that the voters in Portland that elected these officials and "continue" to support them are very smart, socially responsible and have empathy for their fellow community neighbors!? It is an interesting idea not support Pdx City businesses because they are continuing to approve of the City's actions because they are not administrating a political intervention to stop the destruction of their own City. Just that simple?
 

arakboss

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No question. They have already done this. Fe the ones on the "protesters" side:
(1) The rheinhole murderer was on the loose for weeks. Only when federal Marshall's got involved did anything happen.
(2)The Jordan love protestor self proclaimed "security" guy who made national news. his address was posted everywhere and poeple were even going to his house but police made no attempt to even find him. And the police had that information and stated so publicly.

But then on the "Against the protestors" side, the guy who fired two rounds (not hitting anyone or anything of value) they tracked him down and had him in custody within hours and charged him with 5 crimes:https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.kg...ting/283-7cf9b521-ff7f-4234-b2f7-76285264fbbc

The law should be blind to politics and criminals should be prosecuted no matter what their politics, religion etc. the law should apply equally to all or it's not law.
It makes you wonder how many of their handlers are already in leadership positions.
 
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Is it a civil war like North vs South ? No. Is it a Civil War like Northern Ireland ? Yes it sure is shaping up like that, if you are ignorant of that conflict take some time to read up on it and you will notice some very chilling parallels to what we have been watching transpire for the last several years,

I grew up in the shadow of legacy of Civil War, as I have said before in others posts Oklahoma was original a Democrat stronghold for most of it's history and you did not run for dog catcher and get elected if you didn't run as a Democrat and was the legacy of the ghost of the CSA. That began flipping in the late 50's and early 60's as the Northern Democrats became more liberal and alienated the Southern Democrats who morphed into Dixiecrats and then later into Reagan Democrats then into Republicans.

What is happening today isn't the shadow of the war between the states , its a war between neighbors, and family members who have different ideologies with one group wanting to force their ideas on the others. That is exactly how the Northern Ireland conflict spun up and walls ended up being built down the middle of the street as catholic neighbors started shooting protestant neighbors and vice versa.

Throw in some marxism and you get a very similar recipe / what we have going on today.


No it's not a civil war. We have a mob walking around streets blocking traffic. This has been going on for generations. I would highly encourage those who live in areas where this is occuring on a regular basis to move. When your city leaders and law enforcement put the mobs safety above yours, it's time to abandoned that s-hole.
 

JBatt

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I should have used a different example. The point I was trying to make is that the mob may have felt they were within their right to be in street (many do these days) and that they were being threatened.
I think they used that as a ploy so they could do what they did.
 

JBatt

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Unfortunately the commissioners and other elected officials will be the last to lose their jobs. Many rundown, violent and crime ridden cities across this nation have continued to be run by the same parties. I don't understand it but that seems to be the way it works. Look at what the pols ran on. It wasn't about making businesses flourish.
True, however I feel that they are only doing so to entice the useful idiots and then get into office. It wont take long and they will be turned on as the Mob rules in the end when the rule of law is compromised..
 
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Should be. Surrounding a vehicle and preventing the occupants travelling unmolested is at least false imprisonment and possibly rises to kidnapping.
As others have noted, it looked to me like the larpers leveled their barrels at the occupants of the vehicle. That is most certainly a deadly threat and would warrant stomping on the skinny pedal. That said, in such close quarters it would most likely result in someone, if not everyone in the car being shot.
Man time flies. Not even one year.
But it stated right in the article that.....“He was one of the most kindhearted people — that was the whole reason he was out there.” Play like a soldier and you might find out that the enemy is also armed.
 

RedCardinalSeven

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Let's say we were having a Trump rally down the middle of the street and a perceived Antifa driver attempts to plow through the crowd. He stops, then jumps out, begins arguing and pointing a firearm while threatening to shoot us
I've seen this raised before. Here's what I don't get: If the guy was attempting "to plow through the crowd" then why didn't he hit anyone? And if he didn't actually "plow through the crowd" then why would anyone think that he was attempting to do so? If he was attempting "to plow through the crowd" then why would he stop and get out of his vehicle?

The obvious answer seems to be that there is no reasonable basis for anyone to think he was attempting "to plow through the crowd." Rather it's a contrived justification to assault someone they don't like.

The same thing happened in Seattle last summer with Nikolas Fernandez, who protesters claimed was trying to run protestors down. However, the longer video (if you can find it but see below) shows he drove in the middle of the street and missed multiple targets of opportunity that he could have easily hit if that was his intention. He stopped when he couldn't go any further without hitting someone and he was attacked multiple times before and after he stopped.

 

arakboss

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I've seen this raised before. Here's what I don't get: If the guy was attempting "to plow through the crowd" then why didn't he hit anyone? And if he didn't actually "plow through the crowd" then why would anyone think that he was attempting to do so? If he was attempting "to plow through the crowd" then why would he stop and get out of his vehicle?

The obvious answer seems to be that there is no reasonable basis for anyone to think he was attempting "to plow through the crowd." Rather it's a contrived justification to assault someone they don't like.

The same thing happened in Seattle last summer with Nikolas Fernandez, who protesters claimed was trying to run protestors down. However, the longer video (if you can find it but see below) shows he drove in the middle of the street and missed multiple targets of opportunity that he could have easily hit if that was his intention. He stopped when he couldn't go any further without hitting someone and he was attacked multiple times before and after he stopped.

"there is no reasonable basis"

I being a reasonable person don't believe he was trying to injure anyone, I do believe he was trying to maneuver through the mob. The mob doesn't consist of reasonable people, so who knows what they were thinking.

The question comes down to whether drivers have the legal right to drive through crowds of people in the roadway regardless of whether the crowds are following the law or not. If we decide it's legal to drive through the crowds if they don't have a permit to occupy the roadway then I am good with that. It has generally been the case that pedestrians have the right away even if they are not in a crosswalk, etc.

If I was him, and thought that I had hit someone at the 2:09 mark I would have kept driving to a safe location away from the armed and violent crowd and called 911 to report it. I think anger got the best of the driver.
 

arakboss

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Is it a civil war like North vs South ? No. Is it a Civil War like Northern Ireland ? Yes it sure is shaping up like that, if you are ignorant of that conflict take some time to read up on it and you will notice some very chilling parallels to what we have been watching transpire for the last several years,

I grew up in the shadow of legacy of Civil War, as I have said before in others posts Oklahoma was original a Democrat stronghold for most of it's history and you did not run for dog catcher and get elected if you didn't run as a Democrat and was the legacy of the ghost of the CSA. That began flipping in the late 50's and early 60's as the Northern Democrats became more liberal and alienated the Southern Democrats who morphed into Dixiecrats and then later into Reagan Democrats then into Republicans.

What is happening today isn't the shadow of the war between the states , its a war between neighbors, and family members who have different ideologies with one group wanting to force their ideas on the others. That is exactly how the Northern Ireland conflict spun up and walls ended up being built down the middle of the street as catholic neighbors started shooting protestant neighbors and vice versa.

Throw in some marxism and you get a very similar recipe / what we have going on today.
This Irish Civil War? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_Civil_War
 

RedCardinalSeven

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"there is no reasonable basis"

I being a reasonable person don't believe he was trying to injure anyone, I do believe he was trying to maneuver through the mob.
Except the Portland man stopped his vehicle as the protestors approached and he didn't resume travel until members of the crowd repeatedly and often profanely exhorted him to do so.

The mob doesn't consist of reasonable people, so who knows what they were thinking.

The question comes down to whether drivers have the legal right to drive through crowds of people in the roadway regardless of whether the crowds are following the law or not. If we decide it's legal to drive through the crowds if they don't have a permit to occupy the roadway then I am good with that. It has generally been the case that pedestrians have the right away even if they are not in a crosswalk, etc.
It depends on what you mean by "drive through". In any case, I don't see him doing anything illegal. He yielded the right of way by stopping.

On the other hand, I don't know what Oregon case and statutory laws says in such matters but he should have the right to escape and hit people with his vehicle in the process if he has a reasonable fear that they imminently intend to kill him or inflict serious bodily injury upon him and he has no other reasonable and safe means of escape or defense. However, I don't see that scenario here on his part or on the part of the crowd.

If I was him, and thought that I had hit someone at the 2:09 mark I would have kept driving to a safe location away from the armed and violent crowd and called 911 to report it. I think anger got the best of the driver.
I don't know what he was thinking but it doesn't seem to me that he thought he hit someone. I agree it seems like anger got the best of him and he should have just kept moving.
 
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You are correct, the whole affair was a nasty mess that is still not truly resolved today. It is also the closest parallel to what we have going on in society here in the US .


That had nominally under 1,500 casualties, and a defined timeline of about a year.

He's more likely making a comparison with "The Troubles" in Northern Ireland (as I do).


That conflict lasted ~40 years, with 3,500 killed and another 48,000 injured. No true end, nor victory, just a stalemate. With ONGOING SPORADIC violence.


We are so divided , if anyone thinks their ideology is going to be the winner you have another thing coming. In fact the only comparison which really mirrors the war between the states is the how divided we are as a society and culture. Problem is those who disagree are distributed every where not located in
one geographic region. I can totally and realistically see before this is over neighbors shooting one another over their ideas.

Listen to the democrats and leftists who are really one in the same for the most part. They genuinely believe their cause is the one of right and they care about America . Listen to right and their belief is the same one of right and they are the ones who care about America.

The difference is adversaries are right a across the lawn from one another not across the mason dixon line.
 

EHJ

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"Justifiable Fearfulness".
Just keep watching the terrorist videos that keep coming out like this... Fill your browser history with them all.
Understand that the foundation of any defense case lies in your subjective, "Justifiable Fearfulness". Nobody can take that away.
Are you fearful of armed terrorists stopping traffic with AR toting bandits aiming guns at you to control your actions?
Are you fearful that there are NO police actions being taken that would lead you to believe you are safe or protected in situations like this?
Are you in fear of bodily injury or death?

You have, "Justifiable Fearfulness." ;)

ps: police your brass.
 

EHJ

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What stratgey would you use if you were tasked with legally and peacefully disrupting one of these illegal street gatherings?
Occam's choice...

solutions.jpeg
 
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Peace officers should NOT be told to shut up or STAND DOWN.

And if L or R political leaders can't OR if they REFUSE TO DO THEIR FREAKING JOBS - they should be THROWN OUT of office asap.

ALL of these violent mobs, criminals, arsonists, destroyers of public and private properties, etc. should have been STOPPED from the gitgo.

ALL of the violence and GARBAGE from the violent and NON peaceful marchers on the LEFT and on the RIGHT should have been stopped - all of it nipped in the bud from the gitgo.

I said this when I was a teen, young lady and I say it NOW.

Old Lady Cate
You go girl..! :)
 
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