Feedback Request How should we separate and categorize threads?

[Joe Link]

The way we categorize threads and separate the sections here has been mentioned quite a few times in the replies to the feedback request conversation I sent back in June. I created the image below to make sure everyone is on the same page as far as what's what. I'd like to use this thread to discuss the how and why, ideas, suggestions, etc.



So far it seems we're split about 60/40 on whether we have too many categories or not enough categories. It's always a challenge breaking making relevant information easy to find while keeping the clutter to a minimum. Too few categories and content gets mixed together. Too many categories and site performance suffers, everything gets cluttered, forums/subforums go unused, etc.

Current Categories

I think our current categories are sorted well.

- General Discussion Sections - Self Explanatory
- Legal & Political - Self Explanatory
- Activities & Information - This groups forums related to events and activities, actions.
- Weapon Specific - This groups forums related to specific types of firearms.
- Accessories & Maintenance - This groups forums related to firearm accessories, care, and maintenance, etc.
- Partners & Vendors - Self Explanatory
- Classifieds - Self Explanatory. Once our new classified system is launched this entire section will be reduced into a single forum with subforums (exactly like Resource Guide Discussions is now), greatly reducing clutter. Ads will be sorted and viewed through the classified system interface.
- Resource Guide Discussions - Self Explanatory
- Community - This groups forums pertaining to the Northwest Firearms community.

Current Forums & Subforums

I'm not going to list all of these, just look at the main page

This is where we may need to make some changes. The best recommendation I've heard so far is to create subforums for revolvers and autoloaders below Handgun Discussion and subforums for bolt-action and semi-auto under Rifle Discussion.

We could create additional subforums for other types (such as black powder, C&R, NFA, etc.), but that would further divide information on an already sparse topic (one for handguns, one for rifles, etc).

Another option is to leave these forums as they are but create thread prefixes (bolt-action, semi-auto, black powder, etc.). This would allow people to view threads with a specific prefix (like we do it in the classified section). I mention this more below (which I wrote before writing this paragraph).

Tags & Prefixes

Prefixes can be configured on a per-forum basis. For example, we could configure the Rifle Discussion section to have prefixes for semi-auto, bolt action, black powder, etc. We can choose to make these available to only that section, or other sections as well.



Tags are used to tag similar content (threads, photos, reviews, etc.) so that someone can quickly find all content related to that tag.

When someone creates a thread the system automatically pulls uncommon words from thread titles and uses them as tags. Tags can also be added manually by using the tag box under the large post box.



When viewing a thread you can see the tags below the title.



Clicking a tag will take you to that tags page, which includes a search of all content also using that tag.



Collapse Feature

This month we re-added the collapse feature to categories (seen in the top photo). This allows people to collapse categories they're not interested in viewing, reducing clutter.

Quick Recap

Apologies for the somewhat unorganized nature of this initial post. If I've left anything out or if you guys have any questions be sure to let me know.

Cheers,
Joe

Read More

 

[Mikej]

Man I sure hope all this is good for the young whipper-snappers. I'm just an "old(er)" guy that likes things simple. This site is getting to have a bunch of bells and whistles that I don't need. But I've been getting by juuusst fine, thank you!

 

[Joe Link]

Man I sure hope all this is good for the young whipper-snappers. I'm just an "old(er)" guy that likes things simple. This site is getting to have a bunch of bells and whistles that I don't need. But I've been getting by juuusst fine, thank you!

Actually guys like you are at the top of the list! The goal is to make it simple and intuitive enough for everyone to figure out in the first minute or two

 

[Mikej]

I'm just saying that I don't use some of the features, but if it makes others lives easier/more pleasurable, then fine by me!

 

[F2CMaDMaXX]

I was certainly one of the people whom suggested the sub cats are part of their parent "type" So, the example you gave was revolvers and autoloaders being under handguns.

I want to add a couple of things to this;

1) Section consolidation should only happen when the audience/content is sparse enough that it would not warrant sectioning off a portion of the community to hide in their own corner.

2) The 'Activities & Information' section surely would *either* fall under 'Community' (or vice-versa) or are in fact, the same section? Either way, it doesn't seem they should be separate categories.


Maybe change "Weapon Specific' catagory to Either 'Firearm Specific' or even 'Firearm Types' ?


When you're new, or just searching for the right place, i feel it's important to see things from the easily recognisable top-down view everyone will know - Best example of this was my recent post in C&R - I don't know wtf that means (didn't) but if i found it as a link (NTFS junction point, Joe you know this) under the Rifle and Handgun section, it would make more sense to me.

Let's say i come to the forums, i might have a question about a gun, i might know very little about it (which is why i'd have a question) but i knew it was a rifle.
I go to rifles, i get there and see, bolt action, semi auto and C&R - the C&R might have, firearms before 1950 (or whatever the date is) and i might think, well, this looks pretty old, i'll try there.

 

[Joe13]

I like it the way it is.

Some people just don't read far enough into them before posting for sale ads are the only issues I've seen.

 

[etrain16]

The way my brain works, categorizing things by forum and sub-forum just seems logical to me. It also helps me to wade through all the other stuff I may not necessarily want to read. If I'm looking for some discussion on black powder, it would be nice not to have to dig through all rifle discussion (or handgun discussion) to find the threads that discuss this.

The search feature helps, but I've found search to be, well, somewhat unreliable at times. It's better than it was with the "most recent" and "most relevant" buttons, but for some reason, I find that search flat out misses threads altogether. No idea why, but I see it over and over again. Heck, search won't even find the 'not enough goofy humor' thread for me

Anyway you can put my vote in for forums and sub-forums, but I can work with whatever way it goes.

 

[F2CMaDMaXX]

Right, i agree, again, the C&R section, i would never go there because even though i didn't know what it was, i guessed, and guessed wrong, turns out i do want to see content there.

Anyway, keeping sub sections down can be kept clean by using the hard-linking/junction points i mentioned earlier, @Joe Link.

Having a sub title for each category would also help, again, the C&R section, it's titled as such, and means nothing to me, so i never went there.

 

[F2CMaDMaXX]

Looking at your suggestions again, Joe, i still think that deciding on whether to double sub section a forum should be based on how much specific content there is.

So whilst black powder should maybe be its own section, it's likely to be less catered to and might fit better as a hardlink under both handguns and rifles. By that i mean, if you go to handguns, the subsection would read black powder, but the black powder line under rifles would also go to the same place.

Sorry, hard to explain, but what i'm saying should be the following:
1) Lesser known or lower content based stuff should be sub sectioned.

2) The sub sections should not be split on the back end
- Meaning that no matter where you see the "black powder" link (hand guns section, rifle section) they all point to the same *actual* forum section.

3) This would keep the smaller sections combined where it's needed to keep the content rich and accessible, but still sectioned off appropriately to mean something.


I would probably suggest the same for C&R, so the new Rifle & handgun catagories would both have a C&R section under the category, alongside auto loading and bolt action etc. but those links would again point to the same place.
Basically meaning that if you clicked on C&R, it doesn't matter that you came from the handgun section or the rifle section, all posts about C&R would be in that one section.

That leaves navigation logical and clean for the user, always getting easily to the place they want to be, but keeping lesser, typically marginalised disciplines, active and alive, whilst still being their own section.

 

[Sgt Nambu]

I'm perfectly content with the current format. But, sorry, I still find the search function useless. I don't even try anymore!

 

[Joe Link]

One thing to keep in mind when discussing this is the way the site will look with our next update. I think the category descriptions should help.



I just added a new subforum to this section for testing purposes. I think it's usually best to give things an test drive when possible and get a feel for how it works

With the forum/subforum model threads are separated, so a person has to go into the subsection to view the threads. One of the benefits of using prefixes is that if you don't use the prefix search is that you see other threads you might not otherwise see. For example, maybe there's a thread called 'check out this awesome blackpowder gun!'. It'd normally be posted in the Black Powder forum or subforum, which I don't visit.

With the prefix model however, I notice the thread in the Rifle Discussion. If I want to only view black powder threads I can view those with one click. We could create prefix bubbles rather than the prefix dropdown to make things easier.

I was certainly one of the people whom suggested the sub cats are part of their parent "type" So, the example you gave was revolvers and autoloaders being under handguns.

So is this a vote for having subforums under the forums, like this?

1) Section consolidation should only happen when the audience/content is sparse enough that it would not warrant sectioning off a portion of the community to hide in their own corner.

Absolutely. There are several sections which don't get much traffic and should probably be combined.

2) The 'Activities & Information' section surely would *either* fall under 'Community' (or vice-versa) or are in fact, the same section? Either way, it doesn't seem they should be separate categories.

Community is different from Activities & Information, as it pertains specifically to the Northwest Firearms website. This is where we have our announcements, help people with questions, have our admin forums, etc.

Maybe change "Weapon Specific' catagory to Either 'Firearm Specific' or even 'Firearm Types' ?

I agree with this. The dumb reason I didn't name it 'Firearm Specific' is because it also holds the knives category. I think I should probably change it anyhow

When you're new, or just searching for the right place, i feel it's important to see things from the easily recognisable top-down view everyone will know - Best example of this was my recent post in C&R - I don't know wtf that means (didn't) but if i found it as a link (NTFS junction point, Joe you know this) under the Rifle and Handgun section, it would make more sense to me.

Let's say i come to the forums, i might have a question about a gun, i might know very little about it (which is why i'd have a question) but i knew it was a rifle.
I go to rifles, i get there and see, bolt action, semi auto and C&R - the C&R might have, firearms before 1950 (or whatever the date is) and i might think, well, this looks pretty old, i'll try there.

I think I understand where you're going with this, but do you have a visual example?

What's the 'NTFS junction point'?

The way my brain works, categorizing things by forum and sub-forum just seems logical to me. It also helps me to wade through all the other stuff I may not necessarily want to read. If I'm looking for some discussion on black powder, it would be nice not to have to dig through all rifle discussion (or handgun discussion) to find the threads that discuss this.

This makes sense too, especially with the new descriptions. Any thoughts on the Handgun Forum forum/subforum screenshot above?

The search feature helps, but I've found search to be, well, somewhat unreliable at times. It's better than it was with the "most recent" and "most relevant" buttons, but for some reason, I find that search flat out misses threads altogether. No idea why, but I see it over and over again. Heck, search won't even find the 'not enough goofy humor' thread for me

I'm perfectly content with the current format. But, sorry, I still find the search function useless. I don't even try anymore!

I agree, the search feature as it is now is terrible

Right, i agree, again, the C&R section, i would never go there because even though i didn't know what it was, i guessed, and guessed wrong, turns out i do want to see content there.

Anyway, keeping sub sections down can be kept clean by using the hard-linking/junction points i mentioned earlier, @Joe Link.

Having a sub title for each category would also help, again, the C&R section, it's titled as such, and means nothing to me, so i never went there.

We're on the same page here! Descriptions will help, I think (see above)

Looking at your suggestions again, Joe, i still think that deciding on whether to double sub section a forum should be based on how much specific content there is.

This will definitely be the criteria which we use to determine how we handle each section.

So whilst black powder should maybe be its own section, it's likely to be less catered to and might fit better as a hardlink under both handguns and rifles. By that i mean, if you go to handguns, the subsection would read black powder, but the black powder line under rifles would also go to the same place.

Sorry, hard to explain, but what i'm saying should be the following:
1) Lesser known or lower content based stuff should be sub sectioned.

2) The sub sections should not be split on the back end
- Meaning that no matter where you see the "black powder" link (hand guns section, rifle section) they all point to the same *actual* forum section.

3) This would keep the smaller sections combined where it's needed to keep the content rich and accessible, but still sectioned off appropriately to mean something.


I would probably suggest the same for C&R, so the new Rifle & handgun catagories would both have a C&R section under the category, alongside auto loading and bolt action etc. but those links would again point to the same place.
Basically meaning that if you clicked on C&R, it doesn't matter that you came from the handgun section or the rifle section, all posts about C&R would be in that one section.

That leaves navigation logical and clean for the user, always getting easily to the place they want to be, but keeping lesser, typically marginalised disciplines, active and alive, whilst still being their own section.

I get exactly what you're trying to say here, interesting idea. I worry about complicating things further, but I'll look into it and do some thinking

 

[Joe Link]

Something else to consider; With descriptions being re-added in the new design, subforums are displayed in a much cleaner way once inside a forum. Say we keep just the Handguns forum but add auto-loader, revolver, and black powder subforums. This is what it'd look like when someone went into that forum.

We can decide whether or not we want to allow someone to make a 'general' post in the Handgun section (which would display threads below the subforums), or require the poster to choose one of the subforums (in which case no threads would be displayed under the subforums).

 

[etrain16]

I like the category headers, and the direction of the new layout.

 

[Joe Link]

Basically this is what it'd look like from the main forum page:




And this is what it would look like when you go into the forum (Handguns, in this case):

 

[Joe Link]

If we want to get fancy we can also include a link to the relevant classified section.



Inside forum

 

[Joe Link]

The more I play with the forum/subforum system the more I think this is the way to go

 

[F2CMaDMaXX]

Good stuff, Joe.

I'm going to reply to your long thread shortly, but i wanted to comment on the subsequent posts now.

I love the description going back in, whilst they might need refinement down the road, it will make a huge difference.
I agree on adding all sections that are related, so the example of handgun classifieds *also* showing in the handgun section (as well as the *actual* classifieds section, is a great idea.

 

[F2CMaDMaXX]

View attachment 307911



So is this a vote for having subforums under the forums, like this?

View attachment 307913

Yes it is

Community is different from Activities & Information, as it pertains specifically to the Northwest Firearms website. This is where we have our announcements, help people with questions, have our admin forums, etc.

Hmm, possibly a re-think on how that works exactly, or the wording perhaps, maybe the description will help.

I agree with this. The dumb reason I didn't name it 'Firearm Specific' is because it also holds the knives category. I think I should probably change it anyhow

Yes please

I think I understand where you're going with this, but do you have a visual example?

What's the 'NTFS junction point'?

Hmm, best is you search junction point, or hardlink, but i think you already did it in your examples.
Basically, you have handgun classifieds showing in the classifieds section, *and* the handgun section, but they obviously go to the same place.

Where i'm going here with it, (again i'll use black powder as an example) is to have the link for black powder under both pistols, *and* rifles.
*BUT* Because it's a smaller community and having separation will hurt it, the idea would be to have both links (under handgun and rifles) point to the same black powder section, so regardless of which you click on, you will get to the same section, so you will see handguns and rifles mixed in, though only black powder examples.
Make sense?

We're on the same page here! Descriptions will help, I think (see above)

Yup, absolutely, and, specifically, something other than Curio and Relics (or even add to the title, it just sucks )

I get exactly what you're trying to say here, interesting idea. I worry about complicating things further, but I'll look into it and do some thinking

Let's try it, if you please? i think for the *right* sections, this will work (referring to combined section links)

Think of it another way, it will complicate the setup portion, no doubt, but to the user, the net result, i think it will be very smooth.

 

[Joe Link]

I really appreciate the input @F2CMaDMaXX! I'll reply as soon as I revisit this (soon).

 

[CHLChris]

I'm not a fan of tags. I think they are rather useless in a system like this with so few threads and listings. In craigslist or national armslist, maybe, but here they are just clutter.

In my opinion, of course.