Here's how cops actually trace a gun

[Member 3687]

A very long article but if you can get through it, it is quite interesting how firearms searches are done. This is only the ones with a paper trail once out there it might have gone through 10 people before its involved in a crime but they do not say much about that.


Here's how cops actually trace a gun
http://www.businessinsider.com/heres-how-cops-actually-trace-a-gun-2016-8

So here's a news flash, from Charlie: "We ain't got a registration system. Ain't nobody registering no damn guns."

There is no national database of guns. We have no centralized record of who owns all the firearms we so vigorously debate, no hard data regarding how many people own them, how many of them are bought or sold, or how many even exist.

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[billdeserthills]

Actually the way a gun is traced, as I understand it, is a call is placed to the factory, if the gun is modern, the factory looks up the serial # and model and says "we sold that gun to Ellett Bros 2/15/10" Ellett Bros is now contacted, they say "We sold that gun to Cabelas on 3/7/10" a call is made to Cabelas, they say "according to our records that gun was sold to John J Smith on 4/5/10" They copy or scan the form and now they have John J Smith's address from the time he bought that gun. The authorities now might attempt to contact John, to ask him about the gun, much of the time John has already sold the gun, the police will ask if John has a record or bill of sale, perhaps this gun was reported as stolen last year--Another dead end. Or perhaps somebody admits to the crime... After 20 years the gun dealer may turn his records over to the ATF, or if the store goes out of business those records are surrendered to the ATF and then eventually turned over to the people in this story.

 

[Jabba]

Yep, that's pretty much how it works. Now how the feds would LIKE it to work? They recover a 9mm casing at a crime scene, they query the database for every owner of a 9mm gun within 1 mile of the scene. They have a suspect but no weapon, they query the database and find out every gun he's bought, and search his place to see if any are missing.

 

[The Heretic]

Yep, that's pretty much how it works. Now how the feds would LIKE it to work? They recover a 9mm casing at a crime scene, they query the database for every owner of a 9mm gun within 1 mile of the scene. They have a suspect but no weapon, they query the database and find out every gun he's bought, and search his place to see if any are missing.

Close - this is the way it works on NCIS:

McGee finds a shell casing.
Abby scans it with a computer and hacks into all LEO computers in the world, determines that the casing was fired from a Glock 17 manufactured in 2001, shipped to XYQ gunshop who in turn sold it to one of their suspects.

Or better yet, Ducky retrieves a bullet from a corpse and Abby does her thing.

That is what Hollywood and every LEO in the world wants.

That is what every politician is working towards.

If you believe that they are really deleting all the data that they collect via BGCs and other sources, that they don't aggregate and analyze that data, then I've got a bridge in downtown PDX I would like to sell you (just think of all the money you can make with tolls).

 

[Koda]

what is the percentage of crimes solved by tracing the gun back to the shooter?

 

[P7M13]

what is the percentage of crimes solved by tracing the gun back to the shooter?

In every crime where the gun was traced back to the shooter, it was solved 100%.
Couldn't resist....

 

[albin25]

They used a red pencil and white paper the last time I had a gun traced...

 

[RicInOR]

Did Business Insider just reprint the story ?

Want to Know How the Cops Actually Trace a Gun?


Tell me this is not registration -
" Almost 2 million new gun records every month he has to figure out what to do with. Almost 2 million slips of paper that record the sale of a gun—who bought it and where—like a glorified receipt."

 

[Koda]

In every crime where the gun was traced back to the shooter, it was solved 100%.
Couldn't resist....

ha... yes, but how often does this happen...
is what I want to know.

 

[P7M13]

ha... yes, but how often does this happen...
is what I want to know.

Granted this is all murders, but here is a start: 2013 Percentage of Murders unsolved, by state

 

[308]

Clicked the link, scrolled down, saw this, my loins started twitching like a wounded lizard...

 

[Jabba]

If you believe that they are really deleting all the data that they collect via BGCs and other sources, that they don't aggregate and analyze that data, then I've got a bridge in downtown PDX I would like to sell you (just think of all the money you can make with tolls).

Correct me if I'm wrong, but when you buy a gun from the FFL dealer, they send your name(and possibly address?) in to get checked, and if approved fill out the paper form with gun SN and everything that they hold on to forever. They don't transmit the gun info to the feds at all. If they go out of business, they ship all their records to the feds, who claim to take photos of them and categorize by S/N or date of purchase only.

 

[Koda]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but when you buy a gun from the FFL dealer, they send your name(and possibly address?) in to get checked, and if approved fill out the paper form with gun SN and everything that they hold on to forever. They don't transmit the gun info to the feds at all. If they go out of business, they ship all their records to the feds, who claim to take photos of them and categorize by S/N or date of purchase only.

in Oregon, they send your name, address, make, model, serial number to the OSP who runs the background check (FICS). They send a copy of the 4473, containing the same info, to the feds. The dealer keeps a 4473 copy for at least 20 yrs. The OSP keeps the records for up to 5 years. The feds delete the record the next buisness day.

 

[P7M13]

Clicked the link, scrolled down, saw this, my loins started twitching like a wounded lizard...

View attachment 310960

Would that be of the lounge variety?

 

[ZigZagZeke]

in Oregon, they send your name, address, make, model, serial number to the OSP who runs the background check (FICS). They send a copy of the 4473, containing the same info, to the feds. The dealer keeps a 4473 copy for at least 20 yrs. The OSP keeps the records for up to 5 years. The feds delete the record the next buisness day.

My understanding is that the OSP use make, model, and serial number to determine whether a gun is stolen.

 

[Ura-Ki]

Didn't Orygun Gov'ness Hateful kate decree that the OSP keep records longer? and that these records be used/maintained in a State data base thereby usurping federal law?

 

[The Heretic]

in Oregon, they send your name, address, make, model, serial number to the OSP who runs the background check (FICS). They send a copy of the 4473, containing the same info, to the feds. The dealer keeps a 4473 copy for at least 20 yrs. The OSP keeps the records for up to 5 years. The feds delete the record the next buisness day.

that's what they say they do

they also said nobody was listening to your phone calls, intercepting your emails, watching your web surfing

 

[Koda]

My understanding is that the OSP use make, model, and serial number to determine whether a gun is stolen.

the law was written before 941 "passed", BGCs back then were only done from a dealer...

 

[Koda]

that's what they say they do

they also said nobody was listening to your phone calls, intercepting your emails, watching your web surfing

state law says they can keep background check records for up to 5 years, but state law says nothing about backup records. Everything is computerised, it would be absurd to believe their 5yr registry is mot backed up....

 

[Jamie6.5]

Anybody that takes that article as gospel is a fool. (or grossly deficient at math)
There's tons of misinfo there. Like the claim of 33,000+ shootings in 2014.
We know that's false. Roughly 12,000 were "shootings." The other 22,000 were suicides, and we've proven it over and over and OVER again. Not many guns get traced in suicides.
Now, they also claim they have about 50 ATF employees, yet they also claim they're doing this:

On any given day, agents here are running about 1,500 traces; they do about 370,000 a year.

Who REALLY believes the 50 ATF employees employed at this place manage to run 1,500 traces a day using this antiquated system? Honestly? What,... Have they found a way to get 100 hours into a day?

Counting holidays, federal employees only work about 250 days per year. So unless this place is operating 24/7/365 they're doing a helluva lot more than 1,500/day.
5 days a week every week makes 260 days for the 370,000 traces.
If they worked 2 shifts, that's 711 traces per shift, or 88.9 traces per hour.
or IOW, each one of the 50 agents completes 1.77 traces per hour.
Or one every 34 minutes.

FAT F*cl<ING CHANCE!

If they only work one 8hr shift, that's 3-1/2 traces per employee per hour.

Since they are covering all the time zones (since they have to call retailers for bound-book searches) in at least the lower 48, I would say at most the place operates 11 hours per day, which still makes 136 traces per hour if they really are doing 1,500 traces per day, or 2.72 traces per hour/per employee. One every 22 minutes.
Seriously?

I'm sorry folks, but using the system they describe in that article that's just not possible. You know it, I know it, and you can betchurass the author of that pro gun-control article knows it.
There's a reason the Obama administration made funds available for states to build the computerized/searchable databases of guns and owners the 1986 FOPA forbids the feds to own, operate and/or store.
And they're using those at every opportunity.
Don't kid yourself.
What else are they using?