Help me buy a Glock for my mom...out of state!

[orygun]

If I'm not mistaken, you can still buy a gun and gift it. You are the purchaser of the firearm and didn't lie on the 4473. Gifting it relieves you of the "straw purchaser" scenario. I've bought rifles for both of my parents. As far as crossing state lines to gift to a family member, I can't tell you what the law says, but I know what I would do (and not put in print).

 

[Joe13]

If I'm not mistaken, you can still buy a gun and gift it. You are the purchaser of the firearm and didn't lie on the 4473. Gifting it relieves you of the "straw purchaser" scenario. I've bought rifles for both of my parents. As far as crossing state lines to gift to a family member, I can't tell you what the law says, but I know what I would do (and not put in print).

That what I thought too - gifting to a family member is not a straw purchase.

 

[bbbass]

Mmmm hmmm. The waters of buying a gun to give to a relative are fairly muddy. And the Supreme Court has spoken on this recently as stated by another member. To wit:

A year later, federal officials indicted Abramski for lying on his background check form at the gun store in Collinsville. The Form 4473 asks each purchaser, "Are you the actual buyer?" Abramski answered, "Yes," even though he knew he was buying the gun for someone else.


Five of the nine Supreme Court justices thought Abramski made an illegal straw purchase. Justice Kagan, who wrote the majority opinion, said that the law prohibiting straw purchases has two goals. One is to prevent guns from falling into the hands of people who should not have them. The second is to make it easier for law enforcement officials to trace crime guns. As Kagan notes, a legal straw purchase would make identifying the origins of such guns notably more difficult, and enable criminals to "always use straw purchasers to evade the law."

Justices Scalia, Thomas, Alito, Chief Justice Roberts, and the National Rifle Association did not agree with the the court's majority. They argued that the sole purpose of the federal government's straw purchase rule was to prevent guns from going to buyers who could not pass background checks: "Congress' intent was not to prevent transfers of firearms between persons who are both legally entitled to purchase the firearm." But Justice Kagan notes that if the straw purchase rule worked so narrowly, "many would-be criminals … could use straws to purchase an endless stream of guns off-the-books."

Wikipedia has given out wrong information that it is ok to buy a gun with the purpose of giving it as a gift to transfer to another person. This is illegal per the form 4473 and the Supreme Court decision. What you may do, and is perfectly legal, is gift a firearm that you have had for some time. How much time, nobody knows.

You really want to mess with this morass? Furthermore, I don't understand how if your mother can't handle a purchase on her own, and that she is not going to train, how in the world is it that she should have a firearm to use safely and responsibly!!!

 

[Joe13]

really want to mess with this morass? Furthermore, I don't understand how if your mother can't handle a purchase on her own, and that she is not going to train, how in the world is it that she should have a firearm to use safely and responsibly!!!

I got that it was a used gun and she doesn't know enough not to get ripped off.

Buying used guns and shooting guns are two different skills - I'd assume he will help her get it dialed in so she is safe.

 

[slimmer13]

That what I thought too - gifting to a family member is not a straw purchase.

I'm not saying g what's right or wrong, but just so everyone is clear,
18 U.S.C. 922(a)(5) DOES NOT allow an exception for "gifting" to a family member across state lines. The only exceptions it lists are renting or loaning and bequests.

18 U.S. Code § 922 - Unlawful acts

 

[flydipper]

The LEO who got busted for a straw purchase did not gift the firearm to his relative. As I remember it the relative gave him a check prior to the purchase with something in the memo column id'ing that it was for a firearm. So the LEO lied on his 4473 that he was purchasing for himself.

Wa. 594 law has the ability to bona fide gift a firearm to various listed relatives. 941 has a similar provision with neither stipulating a length of time you must own it!

 

[Joe13]

I'm not saying g what's right or wrong, but just so everyone is clear,
18 U.S.C. 922(a)(5) DOES NOT allow an exception for "gifting" to a family member across state lines. The only exceptions it lists are renting or loaning and bequests.

18 U.S. Code § 922 - Unlawful acts

That could be avoided by meeting in Vancouver eh?

 

[slimmer13]

Wa. 594 law has the ability to bona fide gift a firearm to various listed relatives. 941 has a similar provision with neither stipulating a length of time you must own it!

Right but since the op is talking interstate transfers, 594 and 921 are irrelevant and federal law prohibits gifting without NICS check.

 

[slimmer13]

That could be avoided by meeting in Vancouver eh?

Yes if the OPs mom does a NICS check at an FFL.

 

[flydipper]

Right but since the op is talking interstate transfers, 594 and 921 are irrelevant and federal law prohibits gifting without NICS check.

I agree, just pointing out what the two laws say.

 

[Certaindeaf]

I'm not saying g what's right or wrong, but just so everyone is clear,
18 U.S.C. 922(a)(5) DOES NOT allow an exception for "gifting" to a family member across state lines. The only exceptions it lists are renting or loaning and bequests.

18 U.S. Code § 922 - Unlawful acts

Nice and useful.

 

[Kruel J]

The only way you are going to be able to do it is to meet up with her, give her money/gift card/etc. and have her purchase it and do a BGC. You've already stated you are willing to drive there.

And yes, your option 3 is illegal.

 

[Kruel J]

And because these kinds of threads can lead down a dark path, any posts suggesting to do it illegally will result in thread deletion. Keep it on the up and up guys!

 

[Joe13]

I think pretty much everything that can be said has been.

 

[Diamondback]

Other than maybe let HER decide what works best for her with your advice, rather than fixate on what YOU think you want her to have?

Give advice, but like the bikers say "Let Those Who Ride Decide." It's not gonna be very helpful if she sticks it in a drawer and forgets about it.

 

[bbbass]

Buying used guns and shooting guns are two different skills - I'd assume he will help her get it dialed in so she is safe.

That's not the impression that I got. The OP specifically stated that she was NOT going to get trained. So, is she already trained or is training not needed for some reason? I really worry when untrained people have firearms. Somebody could get hurt and it might even be the OP's mom.

 

[bbbass]

The LEO who got busted for a straw purchase did not gift the firearm to his relative. As I remember it the relative gave him a check prior to the purchase with something in the memo column id'ing that it was for a firearm. So the LEO lied on his 4473 that he was purchasing for himself.

Wa. 594 law has the ability to bona fide gift a firearm to various listed relatives. 941 has a similar provision with neither stipulating a length of time you must own it!

That was not in the article that I read. Regardless of how it was done, a straw purchase or a gift, he lied on the form 4473.

As to your second point... I agree. However, federal law and Supreme Court decisions supercede state laws. The OP asked for opinions. Mine is that I wouldn't mess with it. Give her the money and go with her to advise her on what to buy. Then arrange for safety and self defense training!

 

[flydipper]

That was not in the article that I read. Regardless of how it was done, a straw purchase or a gift, he lied on the form 4473.

As to your second point... I agree. However, federal law and Supreme Court decisions supercede state laws. The OP asked for opinions. Mine is that I wouldn't mess with it. Give her the money and go with her to advise her on what to buy. Then arrange for safety and self defense training!

<broken link removed>

 

[Joe13]

That's not the impression that I got. The OP specifically stated that she was NOT going to get trained. So, is she already trained or is training not needed for some reason? I really worry when untrained people have firearms. Somebody could get hurt and it might even be the OP's mom.

100% agreed.

If that's the case it wouldn't be my recommendation but it's none of my business after it's been said.

I only got the impression that she wouldn't or couldn't make the purchase on her own.



Personal experience - I bought two guns at one point with the intent of my mom getting one as a gift.

She said "I'll just shoot in their direction". No gun for mom, period.

she can shoot and was raised around guns but is a hippie and won't actually shoot someone.

That's a no go for me.

 

[bbbass]

If that's the case it wouldn't be my recommendation but it's none of my business after it's been said.

IMO whatever people write here is open for discussion.