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Boy, those sea lions sure have helped our salmon / sturgeon populations grow ever stronger!!
Oh, wait.. wut?
Oh, wait.. wut?
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Have our State Game Officials lost their minds over bringing back Wolf populations?
- Thread Starter U8395279
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Boy, those sea lions sure have helped our salmon / sturgeon populations grow ever stronger!!
Oh, wait.. wut?
Those .... you can kill every one of !
And you need to do likewise.
Last Edited:
wolves are not the concern for wildlife populations, there is no evidence wolves decimate wildlife (unglulate) populations, but there is plenty of evidence wolves add to a healthy ecosystem. http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2003/12/1204_031204_yellowstonewolves.html
Now lets look at what really does impact wildlife and why deer and elk populations are declining...
While its worth noting that cougars do have a significant impact on ungulate populations even they are not the biggest reason ungulate populations are declining dramatically. There is one more element to this discussion that hasn't been brought up yet....
poachers.
poachers take least as many ungulates as are taken legally each year and often exceed legally killed wildlife each year. Think about that and wolves should become the least of concern.
http://www.oregonlive.com/pacific-n...w_ssurprising_rate_of_mule_deer_poaching.html
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poaching#In_North_America
Now lets look at what really does impact wildlife and why deer and elk populations are declining...
While its worth noting that cougars do have a significant impact on ungulate populations even they are not the biggest reason ungulate populations are declining dramatically. There is one more element to this discussion that hasn't been brought up yet....
poachers.
poachers take least as many ungulates as are taken legally each year and often exceed legally killed wildlife each year. Think about that and wolves should become the least of concern.
http://www.oregonlive.com/pacific-n...w_ssurprising_rate_of_mule_deer_poaching.html
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poaching#In_North_America
Yellowstone in Wyoming and the Lolo zone in Idaho are unlikely geography for poachers. Yellowstone is of course a park and the Lolo zone is a mostly backcountry area with few roads. Not saying there has never been a poacher in either locale, just sayin the elk population didn't drop from 17,ooo to a couple thousand primarily due to poachers, habitat or cougars. When wolves were introduced, within a few short years, game herd populations went into a nose dive. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out what caused the huge decline in numbers.................Introducing an apex predator into a population of prey animals that were already in decline could only have one result...........decimation.
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This is why man invented suppressors. Sea lions? pop. 
Wolves? pop
Then there is the subsonic .22 suppressed.... the sound of the brass hitting the ground is louder than the shot.
We can undo the dumb choices that elected officials force on us where wildlife is concern.
Wolves? popThen there is the subsonic .22 suppressed.... the sound of the brass hitting the ground is louder than the shot.
We can undo the dumb choices that elected officials force on us where wildlife is concern.
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Doesn't sound like you've had a chance to read other posts in this thread, and it seems you're using a particular term "decimate," in order support your claim that there is "no evidence" wolves have an adverse impact on elk and deer populations (or more generally "wildlife," and you phrased it).
To the contrary, there's ample evidence that wolves have caused or helped cause a material decline in elk numbers.
Further, are you saying poachers take more animals that wolves and cougars combined?
I will admit I'm a little late commenting in this thread so if I missed a link to an article or source let me know. I'm not an expert and only have an opinion I just haven't seen anything supporting that wolves are decimating deer and elk populations in aggregate. I have no doubt in specific areas wolves have played a part in greatly reducing deer or elk populations, such as the lolo zone in Idaho. Culling wolves in that zone is needed to stabilize the area….
The problem here isn't that wolves can't be re-introduced its that they aren't being managed properly, such as the lolo zone in Idaho where an ~87% loss in elk population over 10 year period is inexcusable. In the last 200 years so much has changed that the land is now divided into zones that trap wildlife into their own ecosystems. Historically wolves never decimated areas of prey they increased their territory size/range proportionally (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gray_wolf#Behavior). Fast forward 200 years to today, they are letting too many wolves run loose in small territory zones like lolo. What the environmentalists can't get through their heads is the original habitat for unmanaged wolves is gone. How many wolves can an area properly hold? I don't know but my guess for Oregon is no more than what we have now. The problem is the enviros don't want to hear is if left alone Oregon's wolf population is going to balloon and create issues with the balance. Too many of them live in fantasy land thinking wildlife can exist the same now as they did over 200 years ago before the continent was settled and wolves did coexist with deer and elk. To further add to their irony most of them oppose sport hunting which is one of the more effective ways to control the wolf population.
The problem here isn't that wolves can't be re-introduced its that they aren't being managed properly, such as the lolo zone in Idaho where an ~87% loss in elk population over 10 year period is inexcusable. In the last 200 years so much has changed that the land is now divided into zones that trap wildlife into their own ecosystems. Historically wolves never decimated areas of prey they increased their territory size/range proportionally (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gray_wolf#Behavior). Fast forward 200 years to today, they are letting too many wolves run loose in small territory zones like lolo. What the environmentalists can't get through their heads is the original habitat for unmanaged wolves is gone. How many wolves can an area properly hold? I don't know but my guess for Oregon is no more than what we have now. The problem is the enviros don't want to hear is if left alone Oregon's wolf population is going to balloon and create issues with the balance. Too many of them live in fantasy land thinking wildlife can exist the same now as they did over 200 years ago before the continent was settled and wolves did coexist with deer and elk. To further add to their irony most of them oppose sport hunting which is one of the more effective ways to control the wolf population.
No, im saying poaching is a major part of the decline in deer and elk that shouldnt be accommodated...
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What about road kill? Should that be accommodated?
Koda,
You're right, government wolf mismanagement has caused the Lolo herd and the Yellowstone herds to be nearly wiped out.........what should we have expected? Do you trust the government "Boobs" to do a better job in Oregon than they've done in Yellowstone and the Lolo zone? The feds have made it nearly impossible for states to manage wolves intelligently. Those things breed like rabbits and they are as hard to control as coyotes.
Once you got em, you can't get rid of them. They are the most efficient predator on the continent and they never take a day off. There isn't a population of game animals on the planet that can withstand a 365 day, around the clock attack by these blood thirsty carnivores. If you're still around in 10 years, come back and tell me how much stronger and healthier the Oregon game population is after the wolf packs get through conditioning them for you. That should be a very interesting report..............
I see what the wolf has done in Idaho. I wouldn't wish that on Oregon or any other western state. The problem is, there's not much we can do about it now. The genie is out of the bottle...........
You're right, government wolf mismanagement has caused the Lolo herd and the Yellowstone herds to be nearly wiped out.........what should we have expected? Do you trust the government "Boobs" to do a better job in Oregon than they've done in Yellowstone and the Lolo zone? The feds have made it nearly impossible for states to manage wolves intelligently. Those things breed like rabbits and they are as hard to control as coyotes.
Once you got em, you can't get rid of them. They are the most efficient predator on the continent and they never take a day off. There isn't a population of game animals on the planet that can withstand a 365 day, around the clock attack by these blood thirsty carnivores. If you're still around in 10 years, come back and tell me how much stronger and healthier the Oregon game population is after the wolf packs get through conditioning them for you. That should be a very interesting report..............
I see what the wolf has done in Idaho. I wouldn't wish that on Oregon or any other western state. The problem is, there's not much we can do about it now. The genie is out of the bottle...........
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Very cute. In an attempt to provide a counterpoint, I searched YouTube but couldn't find a single video of wolf pack ripping out a healthy elk's throat. Oh, wait....
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You didn't look hard enough, there are more.
that cow elk looked healthy, but if the wolves caught it then it must have been very sick and weak. Or maybe it just became exhausted from running
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The wolves don't necessarily kill all the animals in the count,they run them off to other areas,also.Putting a burden on the next locations food. I watched the video about hwo the lower elk numbers let the stream's eco system recover.This is part of the cycle of life.The elk will leave anyway if the food supply goes down.
Now what the video didn't show is what happened to the next area that the herd went to
Wildlife is not the only concern with wolves.Livestock is a great concern as it effects the income of a lot of ranchers.
My friend went through a bad drought in Reno years back. He saw a cow that died during birth. He tried to pull the calf out to see how much money he lost but couldn't budge it.
He drove up the road and came back by 5 minutes later. The coyotes had taken all signs that a calf ever existed.
That's a 40# dog.Imagine what a 100+# wolf could do
Oh yeah,did y'a;; here about the wolf that got run over on I90 on the west side?
Now what the video didn't show is what happened to the next area that the herd went to
Wildlife is not the only concern with wolves.Livestock is a great concern as it effects the income of a lot of ranchers.
My friend went through a bad drought in Reno years back. He saw a cow that died during birth. He tried to pull the calf out to see how much money he lost but couldn't budge it.
He drove up the road and came back by 5 minutes later. The coyotes had taken all signs that a calf ever existed.
That's a 40# dog.Imagine what a 100+# wolf could do
Oh yeah,did y'a;; here about the wolf that got run over on I90 on the west side?
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From what I understand, before man was involved these predator populations would fluctuate with food opportunities. If the deer and elk populations increased so would the predators due to food source. If the deer and elk populations declined, so would the predators due to "balance of nature."
I don't know what to think. We want to have deer and elk to hunt but should nature really be managed for us? I don't know.
I don't know what to think. We want to have deer and elk to hunt but should nature really be managed for us? I don't know.
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