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Have our State Game Officials lost their minds over bringing back Wolf populations?

Discussion in 'Northwest Hunting' started by Lance Jacobs, Mar 23, 2015.

  1. Lance Jacobs

    Lance Jacobs South Willamette Valley Oregon Well-Known Member

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    Over bringing more wolves into our states. Now that Eastern Washington has a thriving Wolf population, state game officials want them to be distributed into western Washington as well, despite the obvious conflicts that could cause with humans, besides the issues that increased predation will have on big game populations.

    Officials in Oregon seem to feel little different, and are under a lot of pressure from both politicians and animal rights groups to increase Oregon's wolf population too.

    And, of course, the media is being pretty pro-wolf too. Checkout this Associated Press news article at the link below about the current situation in Washington. Instead of expressing any alarm or concern that the Washington Wolf population has nearly doubled in a single year, and what potential affect that could have on game populations and hunting in the state, wildlife officials seem much more concerned that the wolves are not moving into western Washington too.

    http://www.timberwolfinformation.org/wa-state-wolf-population-nearly-doubles-in-1-year/

    .
     
  2. 156256Hunter

    156256Hunter Fairview-ish Active Member

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    As the elk and deer populations in NE Oregon keep declining due in no small part to wolf predation, more hunters will get discouraged and quit applying for tags. ODFW will then have to come up with new ways to maintain or halt the decrease in revenue, such as: (1) playing up the raffled tags (where each year it seems one of 5 or 6 of the same guys wins a particular raffle tag by no doubt spending a lot of money than the average guy) and (2) hoping more and more people apply for bighorn sheep and mountain goat tags.
     
  3. U201491

    U201491 Well-Known Member

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    People need to actually educate themselves on wolves and what proper management of them actually do for the elk and deer herds instead of go off of rumor and fairy tales. But, as usual that ignorance prevails.
    Nothing ever changes ....
     
  4. Gator Monroe

    Gator Monroe Southern Cascades Well-Known Member

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    California esque movements by States & USFS is gonna expand
     
  5. oli700

    oli700 Rogue Valley Well-Known Member

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    IMHO where it sucks is when ranches lose animals, it hurts business.
    As far as hunting, I have hunted all my life, had to for a portion of it.
    I think it is pathetic when hunters whine about wolves.
    Native Americans sustained population and life around droves of wolves, if an Indian can live with and around them when they HAD to hunt to live with a bow and arrow no less, then I would like to think modern man with technology and high power rifles can do it, but alas entitled whiners that want to use wolves as an excuse for crappy hunting ability are everywhere…..
     
  6. v0lcom13sn0w

    v0lcom13sn0w Keizer, or Well-Known Member

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    the answer is yes, they have lost their minds.
     
  7. Lance Jacobs

    Lance Jacobs South Willamette Valley Oregon Well-Known Member

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    Well, if you have studied Oregon's early history of white settlement, the very first white men in the Willamette Valley could not live with wolves. In fact, the very first act of the first governmental gathering of early settlers in the Valley was to place a bounty on wolves.

    It was a desire to kill wolves that first united Oregonians and helped to bring about modern government and civilization in Oregon.

    http://www.statesmanjournal.com/story/news/2015/03/15/oregons-history-tied-killing-wolves/24770917/
    .
     
    156256Hunter and Nick Burkhardt like this.
  8. oli700

    oli700 Rogue Valley Well-Known Member

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    what makes you think I haven't ?

    why do you think that has anything to do with what's going on today ?

    Since your a history buff, tell me why they deemed them troublesome enough to band together on the issue ?

    wolves have been part of the landscape , trouble free till the first white people.
    Like Taku stated, study up on why they are an important part of the system and how in Yellowstone they are realizing the mass benefits in the big picture on the ecosystem and how he herds are much stronger now because of wolves......wolves single handedly saved Antelope in Yellowstone

    Its obvious the only people with the right to complain are ranchers.......the rest of you are pissed because your hunting elk in a barrel days are about numbered
     
    mr hamburger, Blowgunner, Tug and 2 others like this.
  9. 156256Hunter

    156256Hunter Fairview-ish Active Member

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    Are you saying I'm a bad hunter? I've got a large freezer full of elk and deer meat to prove you wrong.

    I complain about wolf numbers because over the past 25 years I've seen deer and elk numbers plummet in NE Oregon, due to predation from cougar, black bear and now wolves. At least those who lose livestock from wolf predation can hopefully get compensated, and perhaps deduct it from their tax liability. I don't get to do that with the money I spend applying for big bull tags I can't draw for 18 years, when 25 years ago you could buy a big bull tag over the counter.
     
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2015
    BigBull 301 likes this.
  10. Lance Jacobs

    Lance Jacobs South Willamette Valley Oregon Well-Known Member

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    How on earth would you think that how a stone age hunter/gatherer society lived with wolves is in any way at all relevant to what we are facing today in the 21st century??

    .
     
    156256Hunter likes this.
  11. oli700

    oli700 Rogue Valley Well-Known Member

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    its all good, you guys got it figured out
     
  12. 156256Hunter

    156256Hunter Fairview-ish Active Member

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    Hunting elk in a barrel? Not in NE Oregon. Your opinions and overbroad conclusions lack a proper factual basis.
     
  13. oli700

    oli700 Rogue Valley Well-Known Member

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    hey some of those draws are like hiking down the side of a barrel, been all over hunting the canyon country sir....shots are longer but it is easy elk hunting compared to Roosevelt's in Southwest
     
    U201491 likes this.
  14. U201491

    U201491 Well-Known Member

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    LOL You really need to take a long hard look at what you said here.
    And what you said is so far off, I can't even comment on it without laughing.
    ie : = " black bear and now wolves." The first has zero bearing on the herds and the second makes them stronger.

    Actually I am tired of even arguing with people on this anymore. The minds are all constricted and
    fairytale fed anyway, and explanations are totally useless. The information on it all is out there.
    Stay DUMB or go learn....................Don't pretend you comprehend what you have no clue about.
    Balck Bear ??? Really?? You actually said that ????????? They are opotunistic Omnivoires (Furry Hogs) and for all intents not hunters......................WOW... If they take a deer or elk it is already down or about to go down or its dead, or it fell on a calf or fawn...................................................... These are black bear you said.... they "AIN'T griz .....they don't have much effect on deer and elk herds at all.
    I have to stay off this thread......... The "dumb quotient" is just too spooky................
    Damn ! God help us all.
     
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2015
  15. U201491

    U201491 Well-Known Member

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    Yes......and
    The ranchers have been reimbursed for any losses.
    Stray (some feral, some not) dog packs do more harm.
     
  16. 156256Hunter

    156256Hunter Fairview-ish Active Member

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    I don't know what kind of bee got in your bonnet, sir, or whether you're in the middle of happy hour, but are you saying that black bear don't eat or go after fawn deer and calf elk? I must have missed that episode of Marty Stouffer's Wild America.

    I also don't know why you're calling me dumb, or whether you're referring to Wikipedia when you say the information is out there. My statements are based on what I've seen while actually hunting big game in NE Oregon for almost 25 years: elk and deer populations have taken a nose dive, and it seemed to start shortly after the banning of hunting bear and cougar with dogs in the mid 1990s. The elk herds I do see between August and November each year have very few calves.
     
    BigBull 301 likes this.
  17. U201491

    U201491 Well-Known Member

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    Nope not worth the time................................................Enjoy.......................:\/\
     
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  18. rick benjamin

    rick benjamin USA, Or, Damascus Secure the drama Silver Supporter 2016 Volunteer

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    Thank God! Safeway is just around the corner!
     
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  19. 156256Hunter

    156256Hunter Fairview-ish Active Member

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    Here are a few excerpts from materials on ODFW's website:

    "Hunters, along with private landowners and conservation organizations, have been at the forefront
    of supporting and financing wildlife conservation in Oregon. Through hunting license and tag fee
    revenues, important wildlife conservation and management activities are made possible in the state. "

    "Black bears opportunistically prey on ungulates, taking primarily newborn young..."

    "Reduction of elk hunting opportunities (primarily antlerless) and inability to reach or maintain
    management objectives in some northeast Oregon wildlife management units is believed to be the
    result of increasing predation pressure by cougars, and to some extent black bears. Other mortality
    factors (e.g. disease, starvation, winter loss) also affect these elk populations. "

    "... it will be a tough year for spike hunters in the Walla Walla and Mt. Emily Units due to what biologists believe is continued high predation."

    "Elk numbers continue to increase slowly in most units. The past year’s district calf survival was low, averaging 15 calves per 100 cows. Predation on elk calves continues to hold calf recruitment at low levels. Hunters can expect to see fewer yearling (spike) bulls this fall."

    " When available, bears will catch and consume deer fawns and elk calves..."

    "Predation by bears on ungulates is primarily limited to deer fawns and elk calves. Of 21
    radiomarked white-tailed deer (Odocoileus virginianus) fawns in Minnesota, mortalities were
    evenly split between gray wolves (Canis lupus) and black bears (Kunkel and Mech 1994). Ozoga
    and Verme (1982) concluded that a significant loss of fawns to black bears may be possible..."

    "...In Montana, Idaho, and the GYE, areas that experienced the most severe elk declines had the highest predator denisites of wolves alone ..., bears alone..., or wolves and grizzly bears combined..."

    "In the Salmon River Mountains of Idaho, both cougars and wolves specialized in elk prey overall ... and preyed upon elk calves in greater proportion than they were available in the study area and avoided cow elk...in this study wolves selected mule deer fawns more than cougars." "...wolf diets contained more elk calves...."

    "If [wolf] predation risk causes elk to utilize areas of lesser forage quality for longer durations, elk fitness and reproductive potential would be expected to suffer..." [This may explain why my bull elk I tagged last year in late October had very little fat on it.]

    "Within three years of wolf recolonization of the study area, elk gradually utilized more structurally complex landscapes [not open ridges like Oli700 says] which may have reduced their vulnerability to wolf predation, but increased their susceptibility to cougars."

    "In NE Oregon for cougars and [Yellowstone National Park] for wolves, the apex of elk calf predation by both carnivores was during the summer (June-July) and after the peak calving period (late May)... During this time frame, elk calves were 62% and 31% of wolf (YNP) and cougar (Mt. Emily WMU [NE Oregon]) diets, respectively."

    "Escape from wolf predation may be negated by an increased risk of cougar predation...and the potential for additive ungulate mortality exists if wolf predation remains constant concommitant to elevated cougar population....if wolves and cougars partition prey...allowing cougars' predation rate and population size to remain stable, the combined predation of both predators could impact all classes and the results could be detrimental for ungulates."

    "By the 1990s, when cougar numbers significantly increased, cougar predation became important. A three-year study in northeastern Oregon found cougar predation of adult mule deer was the leading mortality cause, accounting for 33% of all known mortality..."
     
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2015
    eightyeight mag likes this.
  20. eightyeight mag

    eightyeight mag sw wa Active Member

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    How about all the hunters in Wa and Or take a season off and not buy any tags this year.
    Since the odfw and wdfw are taking the money from sportsmen and turning around and giving them a big middle finger with the whole wolf issue.
    I know this would never happen but hit them in the pocket book and maybe they will pull their heads out of their ***.
     
    Blowgunner, westy39, Slobray and 2 others like this.