Guns and boats/yachts

[Dave Workman]

I did an Examiner column Tuesday on the slaying of the four American sail-boaters over in the western Indian Ocean. It zeroes in on dealing with Somali pirates and having guns on board.

Give it a read if you would, please and help me build some kind of concensus on:

a) dealing with Somali pirates
b) having guns aboard a long-distance vessel
c) what gun /guns you would have aboard ideally (and be practical...twin 50s, LAWs rockets, SAMS...nah.. These have to be conventional firearms legal to purchase in the US)

I'd be particularly interested to hear from anybody on this forum who has a long distance boat and cruises...and what YOU do.

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Seattle couple murdered by pirates; Would guns on board be smart?

Four Americans, including a Seattle couple, aboard a private yacht hijacked by Somali pirates are dead this morning, and readers reacting to the CBS story on-line are wondering why any of the pirates were taken alive. Likewise, after the Seattle Times caught up with the story at about 7:25 a.m., it didn’t take long for readers to suggest that the pirates be taught a lesson.

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Or try this:

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Read More

 

[DoubleTapDrew]

First thing I would do is find a destination other than Somalia to visit. Of all the places I would like to visit by boat that's gotta be at the bottom of the list.
I think a good defensive armament would be M1A rifles to put a decent volume of accurate fire on the pirates before they get in range to hit anything with their AKs, then if they board, something like a Saiga 12 would do nicely.
I think the problem is most foreign ports won't let you in with weapons on board. I've heard of folks having to deep six their weapons offshore before going to port.

 

[MA Duce]

Transporting weapons into foreign ports is problematic at best. Most nations prohibit personal weapons of any sort, and while customs inspections vary in quality from place to place it is hard to imagine successfully concealing a weapon capable of defending against pirates on a small vessel. I have extensive experience searching vessels, and a trained boarding team can go through a medium sized (40-55ft) sailboat completely in less than forty minutes.

 

[elsie]

According to this article, two pirates were killed and two were found dead out of a total of 19 involved. FoxNews.com - Four Americans Killed on Yacht Hijacked by Somali Pirates

Two things: 1 - how did those 2 pirates die? Squabble amongst themselves or did the hostages manage to get access to a gun and try to take them on? Polish firing squad?
2 - while having a firearm on board might help, a lot of the pirates have RPGs. This swings the balance of power heavily in their favor usually. And from experience, even aimed shots from a small(ish) vessel can be difficult without a lot of practice. And once you let them get within shotgun range, you're in a lot of danger from quite a few spray-and-pray AKs.

Personally, I'm all for binding them, putting them on their little skiffs and let them watch a detonation of C4 close up.


elsie

 

[MA Duce]

According to this article, two pirates were killed and two were found dead out of a total of 19 involved. FoxNews.com - Four Americans Killed on Yacht Hijacked by Somali Pirates

Two things: 1 - how did those 2 pirates die? Squabble amongst themselves or did the hostages manage to get access to a gun and try to take them on? Polish firing squad?
2 - while having a firearm on board might help, a lot of the pirates have RPGs. This swings the balance of power heavily in their favor usually. And from experience, even aimed shots from a small(ish) vessel can be difficult without a lot of practice. And once you let them get within shotgun range, you're in a lot of danger from quite a few spray-and-pray AKs.

Personally, I'm all for binding them, putting them on their little skiffs and let them watch a detonation of C4 close up.


elsie

I have heard on various nets that they first opened fire on the Navy ship, precipitating the SEAL attack. I'm assuming the SEALs got two before they boarded. Opposed boardings are VERY dangerous and suppressive fire from a covering boat or the mother ship is usually employed.

 

[zeezee]

Dave, I think the real issue here is the coward in chief sitting on his *** in the white house wringing his hands over making a decision on when to send the troops in. jimmy carter the 2nd. "Oh woe is me, I can't order them to do something that might get muslims killed!!" PUKE! How long did that destroyer follow their yacht? And you can bet the captain of the destroyer was begging for permission to take action, and his superior just keep telling my no, not without permission from the cic. From what I've been reading, when our sailors finally did get the green light, it was they that took out the two hijackers.

 

[zeezee]

HEADQUARTERS UNITED STATES CENTRAL COMMAND
At approximately 1 a.m. EST today, while negotiations were ongoing to secure the release of four American hostages, U.S. forces responded to gunfire aboard the pirated vessel (S/V) Quest. As they responded to the gunfire, reaching and boarding the Quest, the forces discovered all four hostages had been shot by their captors. Despite immediate steps to provide life-saving care, all four hostages ultimately died of their wounds.

"We express our deepest condolences for the innocent lives callously lost aboard the Quest," said Gen James N. Mattis, U.S. Central Command Commander.

During the boarding of the Quest, the reaction force was engaged by pirates on board the vessel. Two pirates died during the confrontation and 13 were captured and detained along with two pirates already in US Forces custody. The US Forces also found the remains of two other pirates already dead aboard the Quest. In total, it is believed 19 pirates were involved in the hijacking of the S/V Quest.

US Forces have been closely monitoring the S/V Quest for approximately 3 days, once it became known to be pirated. Four U.S. Navy warships comprised the response force dedicated to recovering the S/V Quest: the aircraft carrier USS Enterprise (CVN 65), the guided-missile cruiser USS Leyte Gulf (CG 55), the guided-missile destroyers USS Sterett (DDG 104) and USS Bulkeley (DDG 84). The ships are deployed to the region to conduct maritime security operations and to provide support to operations Enduring Freedom and New Dawn.

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[MA Duce]

Dave, I think the real issue here is the coward in chief sitting on his *** in the white house wringing his hands over making a decision on when to send the troops in. jimmy carter the 2nd. "Oh woe is me, I can't order them to do something that might get muslims killed!!" PUKE! How long did that destroyer follow their yacht? And you can bet the captain of the destroyer was begging for permission to take action, and his superior just keep telling my no, not without permission from the cic. From what I've been reading, when our sailors finally did get the green light, it was they that took out the two hijackers.

Do we know for a fact there was a SEAL detachment on the tin can from the get go? There MIGHT have been a delay for positioning of assets. Don't know. I too have been wondering about the delay in acting. One thing is known, shooting the RPG at that tin can was a BIG mistake.

 

[akula]

Its actually not that big of a deal to have a gun on board when you dock. In rare cases you will be denied entry if you have a gun on board. Most of the time they just want to make sure that the gun/guns are in a lock box or safe and they will seal it with customs tape to make sure it doesn't leave the boat while your in their country. That being said I would not recommend getting into a gun fight with pirates they have RPGs, heavy machine guns, and full auto AK's. The LRAD system has had positive results and since its none lethal it wouldn't be as much of a hassle when you dock in a different country.

Best thing to do is to stay the f*ck away from Somalia, unless of course the name of your vassal starts with USS.

 

[zeezee]

Do we know for a fact there was a SEAL detachment on the tin can from the get go? There MIGHT have been a delay for positioning of assets. Don't know. I too have been wondering about the delay in acting. One thing is known, shooting the RPG at that tin can was a BIG mistake.

Ya think? LOL! But, stupid is as stupid does.

 

[SheepDog223]

If your in the countries waters you need to follow the laws of the country which you are in. You can't have an unregistered full auto off the U.S. coast and you can't have a military style rifle off the Mexican coast. Here is the example for sailing into mexico.

Vessels entering Mexican waters with firearms or ammunition on board must have a permit previously issued by the Mexican Embassy, or a Mexican consulate. Mariners do NOT avoid prosecution by declaring their weapons at the port of entry. Before traveling, mariners who have obtained a Mexican firearms permit should contact Mexican port officials to receive guidance on the specific procedures used to report and secure weapons and ammunition. Entering Mexico with a firearm, some kinds of knives or even a single round of ammunition is illegal, even if the firearm or ammunition is taken into Mexico unintentionally. The Mexican government strictly enforces it's laws restricting the entry of firearms and ammunition along all land borders and at air and seaports. Violations have resulted in arrests, convictions, and long prison sentences for U.S. citizens.

 

[One-Eyed Ross]

There may not have been a SEAL team on board the tin can, but I am sure that there was a Marine unit of some sort on board... I'm sure they could have handled it almost as easy as a SEAL unit could do.

 

[MA Duce]

There may not have been a SEAL team on board the tin can, but I am sure that there was a Marine unit of some sort on board... I'm sure they could have handled it almost as easy as a SEAL unit could do.

Perhaps...but it WAS a SEAL unit that was employed.

 

[DoubleTapDrew]

You could probably pick up some full auto AKs and RPGs of your own in Somalia for cheap and dump them in international waters on the way home.

 

[Redcap]

You could probably pick up some full auto AKs and RPGs of your own in Somalia for cheap and dump them in international waters on the way home.

 

[RVTECH]

What really bothers me is the report (on FOX this morning) our Navy was 'negotiating' with the pirates - is this what they have reduced us to? Lets see, your neighbor comes over and grabs your riding lawnmower because he does not have one. Do you call the cops to come over and 'negotiate' with him to return it if you agree to let him use it every other weekend?

 

[clearconscience]

I thought it was illegal to carry weapons aboard a ship in international waters? Or is that just for commercial vessels?

If I was going to be sailing around the world I would avoid the entire middle east/north Africa region like the plague.

And we should adopt the old way of the sea. Anyone who was deemeda pirate should be hung, or left at sea.

Only I would knee cap them then push them over.

Just like any other terrorist type orgainization or criminal activity the more you cater to them the more people will do it. Look at terrorism, gang activity, drug gangs, etc.

The world is getting more and more dangerous. Buy ammo.

 

[DoubleTapDrew]

What really bothers me is the report (on FOX this morning) our Navy was 'negotiating' with the pirates - is this what they have reduced us to? Lets see, your neighbor comes over and grabs your riding lawnmower because he does not have one. Do you call the cops to come over and 'negotiate' with him to return it if you agree to let him use it every other weekend?

I know the U.S. policy is not to negotiate with terrorists. Is the policy not the same for pirates?

I thought it was illegal to carry weapons aboard a ship in international waters? Or is that just for commercial vessels?

I'm pretty sure in international waters anything goes. But once you get within another country's territorial waters you have to abide by their rules. That's my understanding of it, but I'm not a sailor and rarely venture out past buoy 10

 

[Diamondback]

Which is why it might be a good idea, when you approach territorial waters of a "civilized country" *snort* to have a watertight container secured to the boat by a heavy cable or two below the waterline that you can just load it all up and heave-ho it over the side before you cross the Twelve Mile Limit (or however far it is), and once you're back out in international waters or approaching a trouble-spot you reel it in.