Got any plans for the Pistol Brace apocalypse?

[Flintlock Tom]

Where are people getting "free stamps" from "amnesty" for SBRs??? serious question.

The requirements, restrictions and conditions will be posted in December.

 

[hongkong2]

Not if, WHEN they make braced pistols the same as SBR's they will issue an amnesty because at that point you will have a contraband SBR. You will have a period where you can amnesty register it as an SBR . After that period is over it will be just be a contraband SBR, a federal felony, unless you decide to remove the stock or put a long barrel on it. The chances are pretty good they will do a tax free form 1 the same way they did in 1994. There have been leaked reports of it but nothing in writing about free stamps yet although if they want compliance they will do it. Theyre spending like drunken sailors already whats a few hundred more here and there?. You dont have to comply . They hardly ever prosecute SBR charges but taking it out of the home is going to be dicey isn't it?

Solid bet they're watching the initial reactions to this and fine tuning their illegal actions.

 

[wired]

Solid bet they're watching the initial reactions to this and fine tuning their illegal actions.

Im sure they are but they aren't going to be changing their tune. Theyre just crossing t's and dotting i's at this point to steel their position against the inevitable legal challenge.

 

[Yarome]

One form once a year by email.

How do you figure that?? Over states lines temporarily requires you enter departue and return dates. Permanent move doesn't, but every single time an NFA crosses state lines a new form must be sumitted for approval.

Approvals can take 30+ days so form submissions have to be well in advance of any planned trip.

Filing a 5320.20 is per case and limited to 3 NFA items per form. They don't issue you blanket permission for a year.

"No problem! Shoot us an email once a year and you can take whatever you want wherever you want. We're good!"

(I think not....)

 

[Yarome]

Yeah well a lot of people making blind assumptions. I think they'll just do the same thing they did in 1994 and do a tax free registration as an SBR . They want to see that you have a braced pistol to qualify. Thats about it.

The entire concept of it being a trap is absurd. You think theyre going to offer amnesty and then jail all the people who apply for amnesty? Does ANYONE in their right mind really think that would hold up in court?

That falls under blind assumption too. No matter how many times it's repeated.

The supposed trap is submitting your form, providing proof you own one and think you're automatically going to get a free pass... but receiving a "your's does not qualify for amnesty and must pay $200 for your stamp."

You already submitted a legal form stating what you have so the option not to pay is gone. You also can't simply modify it (remove the brace) etc. to make it a "non-SBR". You already burned that bridge by submitting your form and photo evidence.

You're right. Suggesting the only "trap" would result in jail time is absurd. From those suggesting it may be a trap... they are talking a money trap.

It may be a money trap with no way out, once you submit your form. If it plays true, I sure hate to be the guy that threw together 10 SBR's with braces trying to cash in on a free stamp for future SBR builds... only to get slapped with a $2k bill for trying to game the system.

 

[Tgrow503]

TRAVELING WITH AN SBR
One of the downsides of traveling with an SBR is that the owner must seek permission from the ATF to take it across state lines. This requires completion of a Form 20 with the ATF. The good news is that they are almost always automatically approved, are free of charge and they can be filled out 1 year in advance.

 

[ilikegunspdx]

That falls under blind assumption too. No matter how many times it's repeated.

The supposed trap is submitting your form, providing proof you own one and think you're automatically going to get a free pass... but receiving a "your's does not qualify for amnesty and must pay $200 for your stamp."

You already submitted a legal form stating what you have so the option not to pay is gone. You also can't simply modify it (remove the brace) etc. to make it a "non-SBR". You already burned that bridge by submitting your form and photo evidence.

You're right. Suggesting the only "trap" would result in jail time is absurd. From those suggesting it may be a trap... they are talking a money trap.

It may be a money trap with no way out, once you submit your form. If it plays true, I sure hate to be the guy that threw together 10 SBR's with braces trying to cash in on a free stamp for future SBR builds... only to get slapped with a $2k bill for trying to game the system.

Right, think about it in terms of what ATF wants. ATF has been given commands from Biden administration to eliminate pistol braces.

How can they do that? They need to find out where they are first of all.

How can they do that? One of the legal ways open to them is through the "amnesty" process. Ammesty was created way in the past but it can be used an unlimited number of times.

So how can they find the braces pistols through a legal avenue? A brace "amnesty" to get people to willingly tell them where they are would do that.

Now how do they eliminate or control them? Make a scorecard that is so hard to pass that almost no guns can pass. That means the owners will have to surrender the gun, possibly destroy the brace and provide ATF evidence of that (I'm guessing here), or pay the stamp and register it as an sbr.

Signing up for the amnesty commits you to one of these options most likely. All just imo and we'll know more in December.

 

[wired]

How do you figure that?? Over states lines temporarily requires you enter departue and return dates. Permanent move doesn't, but every single time an NFA crosses state lines a new form must be sumitted for approval.

Approvals can take 30+ days so form submissions have to be well in advance of any planned trip.

Filing a 5320.20 is per case and limited to 3 NFA items per form. They don't issue you blanket permission for a year.

"No problem! Shoot us an email once a year and you can take whatever you want wherever you want. We're good!"

(I think not....)

Willis, What are you talking about?

Yeah, you're wrong.

I'm in South Carolina. I want to travel to a spot I shoot at in North Carolina. Several spots actually. Every January I file ALL my SBR's and SBS's to travel from Feb 1 of that year to Jan 31st of the following year to my main shooting place. Every year the same thing. I used to do it for Washington when I lived in Oregon. Every year the same thing. Blanket one year approvals. That what people who know the regs do. The ATF approves it every time. Takes 2-3 weeks typically but I get a stack of forms back in the mail valid for the entire year . One year I even got cute and filed with the longitude and latitude coordinates for the entire state of Washington. They approved it. Another time I mistakenly put 1 Feb 2018 to 1 feb 2019. They turned it down because it was over a years duration. Traveling has to be within the dates listed and there is no prohibition against multiple entries. I know you feel like youre right but you aren't and if you really feel that way show me in the US code where it says one entry per form. I'll wait.

Ive been doing it like that for over 20 years. Its legal.

I have 75 tax stamps and was a 07/02 SOT for 20 years. I know a little bit about this stuff.

Read the handbook before making stuff up next time.

https://www.atf.gov/files/publications/download/p/atf-p-5320-8/atf-p-5320-8.pdf


From the ATF's own NFA handbook...

One-year approval. If a person will be transporting his/her firearm(s) to the same location on a
continual basis, ATF will approve a transportation request for up to 1 year. Example: the person lives in
State A, has a farm in State B (State B allows possession of the particular firearm), and wants to take the
firearm to the farm throughout the year. The person may request permission for a 1-year period to
transport the firearm interstate to the farm. Any other interstate transportation would still require a
separate request and approval. Second example: the person lives in State A and wants to transport
his/her firearm to a site in State B where competitions and shoots occur several times a year (State B
allows possession of the particular firearm). The person may request permission for a 1-year period to
transport the firearm interstate to the site for competitions and shoots. Any other interstate
transportation would still require a separate request and approval.

 

[wired]

That falls under blind assumption too. No matter how many times it's repeated.

The supposed trap is submitting your form, providing proof you own one and think you're automatically going to get a free pass... but receiving a "your's does not qualify for amnesty and must pay $200 for your stamp."

You already submitted a legal form stating what you have so the option not to pay is gone. You also can't simply modify it (remove the brace) etc. to make it a "non-SBR". You already burned that bridge by submitting your form and photo evidence.

You're right. Suggesting the only "trap" would result in jail time is absurd. From those suggesting it may be a trap... they are talking a money trap.

It may be a money trap with no way out, once you submit your form. If it plays true, I sure hate to be the guy that threw together 10 SBR's with braces trying to cash in on a free stamp for future SBR builds... only to get slapped with a $2k bill for trying to game the system.

SBR's are only SBR's when configured as such. That hasn't changed.

 

[Yarome]

Yeah, you're wrong.

I'm in South Carolina. I want to travel to a spot I shoot at in North Carolina. Several spots actually. Every January I file ALL my SBR's and SBS's to travel from Feb 1 of that year to Jan 31st of the following year to my main shooting place. Once in state I can travel anywhere in that state. Every year the same thing. I used to do it for Washington when I lived in Oregon. Every year the same thing. Blanket one year approvals. That what people who know the regs do. The ATF approves it every time. Takes 2-3 weeks typically but I get a stack of forms back in the mail valid for the entire year . One year I even got cute and filed with the longitude and latitude coordinates for the entire state of Washington. They approved it. Another time I mistakenly put 1 Feb 2018 to 1 feb 2019. They turned it down because it was over a years duration. Traveling has to be within the dates listed and there is no prohibition against multiple entries. I know you feel like youre right but you aren't and if you really feel that way show me in the US code where it says one entry per form. I'll wait.

Ive been doing it like that for over 20 years. Its legal.

I have 75 tax stamps and was a 07/02 SOT for 20 years. I know a little bit about this stuff.

Of course... if you were a 07/02 SOT for 20 years then you would also be aware that FFL's are exempt from having to fill out a form 20 and ask permission, anyway... RIGHT!?? Ever think they approved your 1yr blocks because they ran your name and saw you didn't need one anyway??

If they actually allow approvals in 1yr chunks, that's certainly good to know, but it certainly isn't common knowledge or practice. The ATF directions for form completion clearly states, "... EVERY time the NFA Firearm crosses state lines.", and the date fields instructions specify a departure and return date. Not... "departure date and make sure you bring it back home before a 12month period".

There is NOTHING within the rules or directions indicating a 1yr period may be requested with "at will", multiple departure and return dates within a 1yr period.

The fact that they ignore their own rules and directions and WILL approve a full year, and don't really care when or where or how many times is fine! But I hightly doubt anyone knows that.


Show me in the US code where it says form 20 permissions are granted for 12months. I'll wait.

 

[wired]

Of course... if you were a 07/02 SOT for 20 years then you would also be aware that FFL's are exempt from having to fill out a form 20 and ask permission, anyway... RIGHT!?? Ever think they approved your 1yr blocks because they ran your name and saw you didn't need one anyway??

If they actually allow approvals in 1yr chunks, that's certainly good to know, but it certainly isn't common knowledge or practice. The ATF directions for form completion clearly states, "... EVERY time the NFA Firearm crosses state lines.", and the date fields instructions specify a departure and return date. Not... "departure date and make sure you bring it back home before a 12month period".

There is NOTHING within the rules or directions indicating a 1yr period may be requested with "at will", multiple departure and return dates within a 1yr period.

The fact that they ignore their own rules and directions and WILL approve a full year, and don't really care when or where or how many times is fine! But I hightly doubt anyone knows that.


Show me in the US code where it says form 20 permissions are granted for 12months. I'll wait.

Again,,,
Read the handbook before making stuff up next time.

https://www.atf.gov/files/publications/download/p/atf-p-5320-8/atf-p-5320-8.pdf

From the ATF's own NFA handbook...

One-year approval. If a person will be transporting his/her firearm(s) to the same location on a
continual basis, ATF will approve a transportation request for up to 1 year. Example: the person lives in
State A, has a farm in State B (State B allows possession of the particular firearm), and wants to take the
firearm to the farm throughout the year. The person may request permission for a 1-year period to
transport the firearm interstate to the farm. Any other interstate transportation would still require a
separate request and approval. Second example: the person lives in State A and wants to transport
his/her firearm to a site in State B where competitions and shoots occur several times a year (State B
allows possession of the particular firearm). The person may request permission for a 1-year period to
transport the firearm interstate to the site for competitions and shoots. Any other interstate
transportation would still require a separate request and approval.

 

[Yarome]

SBR's are only SBR's when configured as such. That hasn't changed.

Well... you've been spouting off dozens of times saying all braced pistols are SBR's so... what exactly makes it an SBR only when it's an SBR??

That's one point I'll agree with you! An SBR IS an SBR when a firearm is configured as an SBR.

 

[nehalemguy]

SBR's are only SBR's when configured as such. That hasn't changed.

Why do people make this so hard?

-E-

 

[wired]

Well... you've been spouting off dozens of times saying all braced pistols are SBR's so... what exactly makes it an SBR only when it's an SBR??

That's one point I'll agree with you! An SBR IS an SBR when a firearm is configured as an SBR.

Braces are stocks so when it has a brace on it it will be an SBR. Come back in December and agree with me.

Study this in the mean time.

https://www.atf.gov/files/publications/download/p/atf-p-5320-8/atf-p-5320-8.pdf

 

[Diamondback]

Good thing I never put a brace on a complete build, only incompletes or mockups on blanks. So my bare-tube AR pistols will still be free to roam the country, locked and loaded where covered by my CPL otherwise FOPA'ed, without even one "Jackboot May I" and Pedo Joe and his his stormtrooper minions can all go suck cat turds.

#FJBAndAllWhoSupportHim

 

[hongkong2]

Braces are stocks so when it has a brace on it it will be an SBR. Come back in December and agree with me.

Study this in the mean time.

https://www.atf.gov/files/publications/download/p/atf-p-5320-8/atf-p-5320-8.pdf

True dat!

 

[billdeserthills]

And just like the 94 amnesty on DDs nothing happened.

Braces are stocks so when it has a brace on it it will be an SBR. Come back in December and agree with me.

Study this in the mean time.

https://www.atf.gov/files/publications/download/p/atf-p-5320-8/atf-p-5320-8.pdf

Not in States that have a 2nd Amendment Sanctuary law

 

[Yarome]

Again,,,
Read the handbook before making stuff up next time.

https://www.atf.gov/files/publications/download/p/atf-p-5320-8/atf-p-5320-8.pdf

From the ATF's own NFA handbook...

One-year approval. If a person will be transporting his/her firearm(s) to the same location on a
continual basis, ATF will approve a transportation request for up to 1 year. Example: the person lives in
State A, has a farm in State B (State B allows possession of the particular firearm), and wants to take the
firearm to the farm throughout the year. The person may request permission for a 1-year period to
transport the firearm interstate to the farm. Any other interstate transportation would still require a
separate request and approval. Second example: the person lives in State A and wants to transport
his/her firearm to a site in State B where competitions and shoots occur several times a year (State B
allows possession of the particular firearm). The person may request permission for a 1-year period to
transport the firearm interstate to the site for competitions and shoots. Any other interstate
transportation would still require a separate request and approval.

That's hardly making stuff up. It isn't solely intended as a standard 1yr permission permit for all... and what can I say? I pay attention to the form instructions as I need to and don't typically read through the ATF's 220 page NFA handbook for special circumstance applications.

I'll stand partially corrected.

There are probably not a lot of people that would qualify for that special circumstance. (travelling with the same particular firearm to the same location on a continual basis.) Some might choose to white lie it though, so it's good to know.

The point still stands though... and it certainly ain't make believe. The form directions don't indicate that, the typical person wouldn't know, that provision wouldn't apply to them anyway.... so they will and DO fill out form 20's on a per trip basis.... as instructed.

Always gotta love a person that takes an exception or special provision to prove a point as if it applies to all... when it doesn't.

 

[wired]

That's hardly making stuff up. It isn't solely intended as a standard 1yr permission permit for all... and what can I say? I pay attention to the form instructions as I need to and don't typically read through the ATF's 220 page NFA handbook for special circumstance applications.

There are probably also not a lot of people that would qualify for that special circumstance for it to apply. (travelling with the same particular firearm to the same location on a continual basis.) Some might choose to white lie it though, so it's good to know.

The point still stands though... and it certainly ain't make believe. The form directions don't indicate that, the typical person wouldn't know, that provision wouldn't apply to them anyway.... so they will and DO fill out form 20's on a per trip basis.... as instructed.

Always gotta love a person that takes an exception or special provision to prove a point as if it applies to all... when it doesn't.

Your refusal to read the regs is your problem not theirs.

https://www.guntrustlawyer.com/files/2015/02/Transport-a-Title-II-as-a-Title-1-across-state-lines.pdf

 

[wired]

Not in States that have a 2nd Amendment Sanctuary law

That doesn't stop the ATF from prosecuting you. It just keeps the state from prosecuting you or assisting the feds in their prosecution. NFA prosecutions are ALWAYS federal . 2nd amendment sanctuary laws are futile.