Gig Harbor man shoots man he wrongly suspects of stealing groceries

[Old Dog]

Fwiw I think we are assuming a lot about a situation based on very little info and one we didn't witness ourselves.

Exactly.

Lots of folks here weighing in on a situation in which very few facts have been provided. From what I heard -- a firsthand account -- the older gentleman thought the presumed "shoplifter" wouldn't keep trying to leave if he simply tried to block the exit. It appears that the younger man "physically confronted" the older man, pushing him down and the older man drew his weapon. We don't know what was said. The older man didn't pull a gun on someone because (he thought) the guy was was shoplifting. He shot the guy because he felt that he was being physically assaulted.

In any event, is there really any need for comments about "out of control boomers?" Or the other go-to, presuming the guy suffers from dementia?

there is a number of older Americans who make these type of threats and then follow through.

That's a reach. The real threat level in this country is not older Americans. Hint: it's the demographic statistics show are the overwhelming preponderance of violent assaults and shootings in this country.

 

[Catfishmoon]

Exactly.

Lots of folks here weighing in on a situation in which very few facts have been provided. From what I heard -- a firsthand account -- the older gentleman thought the presumed "shoplifter" wouldn't keep trying to leave if he simply tried to block the exit. It appears that the younger man "physically confronted" the older man, pushing him down and the older man drew his weapon. We don't know what was said. The older man didn't pull a gun on someone because (he thought) the guy was was shoplifting. He shot the guy because he felt that he was being physically assaulted.

In any event, is there really any need for comments about "out of control boomers?" Or the other go-to, presuming the guy suffers from dementia?


That's a reach. The real threat level in this country is not older Americans. Hint: it's the demographic statistics show are the overwhelming preponderance of violent assaults and shootings in this country.

You appear to believe the shooter has some form of legality to detain a stranger he is suspicious of in public... I do not find it surprising the result became physical.

 

[VinnieBoomBah]

So the 'younger guy' did the same thing several people in this thread said they would do?

 

[RVTECH]

From what I heard -- a firsthand account -- the older gentleman thought the presumed "shoplifter" wouldn't keep trying to leave if he simply tried to block the exit.

He 'thought' the presumed "shoplifter" wouldn't keep trying to leave if he 'simply' blocked the exit?

Well, what stupidity made him think this? Did it ever occur to him he was most likely doing something illegal by blocking the exit and preventing 'free movement' of the public which is typically illegal?

He shot the guy because he felt that he was being physically assaulted.

Because he 'felt' he was being 'physically assaulted' ? Well, was he or wasn't he?

This is becoming an all too common story - 1st person starts something they have no biz getting involved with, then an altercation starts with a 2nd person and 1st person shoots 2nd person and suddenly he is 'exonerated' by 'public opinion' because 1st person was 'assaulted' (or whatever)?

What came first here - the chicken or the egg?

And don't forget - 1st person was arrested and charged.

 

[titsonritz]

So the 'younger guy' did the same thing several people in this thread said they would do?

He obviously didn't do it good enough.

 

[RVTECH]

He obviously didn't do it good enough.

Sadly, and in a 'left handed' way you are probably right.

IF he had forced his way out with minimal, or no injury to shooter he would have probably been justified legally in doing so.

Anything more (such as ripping, poking, breaking, tearing anything from him as mentioned in many posts) and maybe not so.

Basic rule is 'minimal amount of force used to defend yourself'.

 

[Old Dog]

You appear to believe the shooter has some form of legality to detain a stranger he is suspicious of in public... I do not find it surprising the result became physical.

Oh, hell no! And I neither said nor implied he had any legal standing to detain this person. Actively stupid move, confront a shoplifter.

This is becoming an all too common story - 1st person starts something they have no biz getting involved with, then an altercation starts with a 2nd person and 1st person shoots 2nd person and suddenly he is 'exonerated' by 'public opinion' because 1st person was 'assaulted' (or whatever)?

Well, since you quoted my post, I will respond and say that in no way *my* public opinion exonerates this man from his clearly misguided initial action and the subsequent escalation to lethal force. I simply pointed out that he drew his weapon after being unsurprisingly engaged in a physical confrontation. I had no intention of making excuses for the older gentleman, he certainly will have to be held accountable for all of his actions.

My only issue is all the folks making wild assumptions about this man, some apparently due to his age (hints of ageism in this thread, for sure), his mental state and then some comments regarding boomers and older Americans in general.

Sadly, yet another incident spawning a thread that could be used to examine some pertinent issues, like when it's legal/lawful to involve one's self in an active crime, how to best be a good witness, or justification for use of deadly force, but alas, all everyone wants to do is one-up everyone else with pithy or snide comments about old guys

 

[RVTECH]

My only issue is all the folks making wild assumptions about this man, some apparently due to his age (hints of ageism in this thread, for sure), his mental state and then some comments regarding boomers and older Americans in general.

Fair enough!

I certainly agree with you in regard to assumptions due to age or mental state, and hope this does not become a more common occurrence HOWEVER I cannot overlook the self righteous/self indulgent attitudes I see in 'aging' men who are seemingly otherwise mentally acute.

I have made it a personal goal of mine as I age to remain open minded and rational, never to be presumptuous or assumptive and to stay abreast of current events and politics so as to keep a view of what may be 'ahead'.....

 

[Knobgoblin]

Fair enough!

I certainly agree with you in regard to assumptions due to age or mental state, and hope this does not become a more common occurrence HOWEVER I cannot overlook the self righteous/self indulgent attitudes I see in 'aging' men who are seemingly otherwise mentally acute.

I have made it a personal goal of mine as I age to remain open minded and rational, never to be presumptuous or assumptive and to stay abreast of current events and politics so as to keep view of what may be 'ahead'.....

You're never going to make into the sacred McDonald's early morning coffee table group with an attitude like that .

 

[RVTECH]

You're never going to make into the sacred McDonald's early morning coffee table group with an attitude like that .

Your right - I spend enough time around the 'cracker barrel' with a bunch in the 'neighborhood' I live in and well, we keep an pretty even 'tone' on things!

 

[RX-79G]

Sadly, yet another incident spawning a thread that could be used to examine some pertinent issues, like when it's legal/lawful to involve one's self in an active crime, how to best be a good witness, or justification for use of deadly force, but alas, all everyone wants to do is one-up everyone else with pithy or snide comments about old guys

Those were also covered, and everyone agrees that the old guy, one way or another, acted outside the law and foolishly.

So then we're just wondering why. And why this behavior is so fundamentally similar to a whole bunch of similar behavior.

 

[Alexx1401]

Very insightful, @RVTECH . Yes. Men or women. Its just that its more of a social problem when it affects men. Alzheimer's and other forms of senile dementia destroy sections of the brain. If brain damage destroys the wrong section the person can become aggressive and violent, even though they were never like that when younger. Destruction of areas of brain that inhibit sexuality can cause what used to be an appropriately acting man to start propositioning everyone or even grabbing and trying to force sex on everyone. Bigger nursing homes usually have a section where all the caregivers are big strong men with skill in restraining such people without hurting them.

Very often by the time the brain damage occurs that causes disinhibited violence or sexuality, the person is not physically competent and strong enough to create a problem. But not always, especially with men. Once upon a time, it was pretty common that little girl visitors to a home were advised to stay out of the reach of the grandpa or great grandpa and don't sit on his lap no matter how he coaxed them.... Yup. He would molest them if they sat on his lap. But he was completely incapable of catching them.

YEP! A lot of people have no idea how bad the age related brain loss can be until they start to see it first hand. I have to work with this all the time. When I have to physically overcome some doper or drunk it does not bother me near as much as when its someone who did not do it to themselves. Had some REALLY good fights with old people both men and women. Some of them are scary how violent they will suddenly become. A few remain very healthy physically which makes it far work. Years ago one buy who was in his early 80's and completely "out of it" jumped out of his bed, pulled one of those O2 tanks that sit at the head of the bed out by the handle and tried to swing it at me. He did it so damn fast I had to take him down face first while the rest of the staff hesitated. He tried to bite, spit, kick. It was almost like fighting with someone on Meth he fought so hard. Every time I deal with this I think "oh god, please don't let this happen to me". Some of the guys will try to grab at cute nurses butts of course. I guess if I loose my mind I hope its like this instead of violent.

 

[Bobbygun]

I have made it a personal goal of mine as I age to remain open minded and rational, never to be presumptuous or assumptive and to stay abreast of current events and politics so as to keep a view of what may be 'ahead'.....

My personal goal is simpler - avoid people.

 

[Knobgoblin]

This thread oughtta change trajectory when the news updates are read. His slap on the wrist already happened a while back.

Ol boy pulled this type of chit once before. Up to and including rounds out.

He's sitting in jail right now on $100k bail.

 

[Alexx1401]

This thread oughtta change trajectory when the news updates are read. His slap on the wrist already happened a while back.

Ol boy pulled this type of chit once before. Up to and including rounds out.

He's sitting in jail right now on $100k bail.

<"When people take it into their own hands to enforce what they think are shoplifters or others, that becomes really problematic," the judge added, setting Lathrop's bail at $100,000 because Lathrop was allegedly involved in a similar incident last year.

Court documents state he was on the clock working for Pizza Hut in Tacoma when he confronted, then shot and injured a man he thought was trying to break into cars.>

So its starting to look like this moron has had an "I want to be in charge" problem for a while now. Sounds like he should not have been able to own a gun at all.

 

[RVTECH]

Sounds like he should not have been able to own a gun at all.

Well, he may not have been able to legally - but here we go again - when does that stop anybody - criminal or otherwise...

 

[Catfishmoon]

The report states that two shots were fired and one struck the victim in the side of the neck and the other shot struck glass. I don't know close they were together, but if physical contact occured it had to be close.
The shooter not only misjudged the situation, he then shot a 9mm at apparently close range with one round totally missing his target, endangering others in the store... Obviously the victim is the biggest loser in this, but it certainly doesn't help the perception of gun owners.

 

[Vierings]

My brother in law works there, based off what I've been told its accurate.

Honestly, the last place I will stop a shop lifter is a grocery store. I don't like thieves but food is so far from worth it

 

[VinnieBoomBah]

My brother in law works there, based off what I've been told its accurate.

Honestly, the last place I will stop a shop lifter is a grocery store. I don't like thieves but food is so far from worth it

Which version is accurate?

 

[User 1234]

If the shooter is working at Pizza Hut at age 70 then at least he doesn't have to worry about the huge civil judgment which is coming his way.