Gig Harbor man shoots man he wrongly suspects of stealing groceries

[RX-79G]

I was surprised to hear it was only one count of 1st degree assault.

I wish I was surprised.

 

[ArmedNovelist]

You do have to love a good story about an out-of-control Boomer...

Christ Almighty...

 

[Bobbygun]

I don't think it is an age as much as a time. I think the world conformed better to certain people's prejudices for most of their lives, and now they are getting uncomfortable or confused having to deal with the fact that their awfulness is no longer going to be tolerated.

That's certainly a possibility. I'm not quite there on condemning them as awful. Looking at the past through today's lens isn't fair in my opinion.

Another possibility is they are confused as to why things that didn't used to be tolerated, are tolerated now to a much greater degree - vandalism, theft, assault, etc. (I'm not that old yet, but my pet peeve is "felon in possession". While grinding honest people with more and more gun control, "felon in possession" doesn't garner much interest from the powers that be. Night after night on the news you see someone charged with this and released almost immediately.)

Another is dementia.

Another is maybe the guy lost his wife and most of his friends are buried, so he walks around with IDGAF syndrome. When my grandfather passed the 80-year mark, he always followed any mention of his friends with the statement "of course he's dead now".

Talking with my mom and other relatives from the 80+ group, there is definitely a sense of missing the world the way it used to be. Some don't fear death much as they don't really want to be around with where things seem to be headed. I don't think there has ever been a larger gap between the lack of respect younger people have for the older generations and the lack of respect the older generations have for the younger people. Civility is dead. How many social media posts do you see where the older folks are crushing the younger for "participation trophies" or needing to have their college loans paid by taxpayers? And the flip side, younger people making comments like: "Yeah, can't wait until you all die and we'll be running the country." Unfortunately, I don't see it getting better any time soon.

 

[RX-79G]

That's certainly a possibility. I'm not quite there on condemning them as awful. Looking at the past through today's lens isn't fair in my opinion.

Another possibility is they are confused as to why things that didn't used to be tolerated, are tolerated now to a much greater degree - vandalism, theft, assault, etc. (I'm not that old yet, but my pet peeve is "felon in possession". While grinding honest people with more and more gun control, "felon in possession" doesn't garner much interest from the powers that be. Night after night on the news you see someone charged with this and released almost immediately.)

Another is dementia.

Another is maybe the guy lost his wife and most of his friends are buried, so he walks around with IDGAF syndrome. When my grandfather passed the 80-year mark, he always followed any mention of his friends with the statement "of course he's dead now".

Talking with my mom and other relatives from the 80+ group, there is definitely a sense of missing the world the way it used to be. Some don't fear death much as they don't really want to be around with where things seem to be headed. I don't think there has ever been a larger gap between the lack of respect younger people have for the older generations and the lack of respect the older generations have for the younger people. Civility is dead. How many social media posts do you see where the older folks are crushing the younger for "participation trophies" or needing to have their college loans paid by taxpayers? And the flip side, younger people making comments like: "Yeah, can't wait until you all die and we'll be running the country." Unfortunately, I don't see it getting better any time soon.

I'm not condemning everyone of a certain generation. I'm saying that bullies used to have more of a free hand at one time, if they were the right kind of people. And they are no longer a special class of citizen that gets a blind eye turned on them and are put out by that change.


I don't care if you don't like vandals or shoplifters. You can take pictures of them, record their license plate number, confront them verbally, etc. I do not understand talking about tolerating violence from people that supposedly miss "civility". Violence is the least civil behavior there is. The reason we have laws against vigilantism is because they frequently get it wrong. And, just as frequently, they 'enforce' things that are not against the law in the first place.

As gun owners we are all big on the concept of self defense. As law abiding people we are big on the enforcement of law. But those two have almost zero to do with each other, yet we frequently see news items about people that grossly confuse them. This guy is just another Travis McMichael.

 

[ilikegunspdx]

My thinking is primary causes for quick to temper might be covid isolation and social media. Isolation makes it harder to work with people and be reasonable. Social media pushes out emotional buttons numerous times per day which primes the pump for us to have immediate emotional response. Third I would say is ppl just sick of lawlessness and feel need that someone has to do something. Just guessing though.

 

[Bobbygun]

I'm not condemning everyone of a certain generation. I'm saying that bullies used to have more of a free hand at one time, if they were the right kind of people. And they are no longer a special class of citizen that gets a blind eye turned on them and are put out by that change.


I don't care if you don't like vandals or shoplifters. You can take pictures of them, record their license plate number, confront them verbally, etc. I do not understand talking about tolerating violence from people that supposedly miss "civility". Violence is the least civil behavior there is. The reason we have laws against vigilantism is because they frequently get it wrong. And, just as frequently, they 'enforce' things that are not against the law in the first place.

As gun owners we are all big on the concept of self defense. As law abiding people we are big on the enforcement of law. But those two have almost zero to do with each other, yet we frequently see news items about people that grossly confuse them. This guy is just another Travis McMichael.

It's like I struck a nerve somehow. That was not my intent. I'm largely in agreement with you. If you got the idea that my "possible explanations" were an excuse for what the old guy did, that's not the case at all. I hope he has some serious repercussions for his actions (like Travis McMichael). Unfortunately, as you and others have pointed out, that's not likely to be the case. As for vandals and shoplifters, I don't want them shot, but I would at least like to see them fined or jailed instead of ignored. I really don't see where I advocated tolerating violence or vigilantism, because I don't.

This isn't the first time I've gotten an unexpected negative reaction to a post. It's possible I meander a bit too much.

 

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[RVTECH]

Another possibility is they are confused as to why things that didn't used to be tolerated, are tolerated now to a much greater degree - vandalism, theft, assault, etc.

Your entire post is spot on but this part I can certainly identify with.

I have a friend who thinks & acts much older than he is and is becoming very bitter and apathetic toward the world in general.

He often rationalizes things such as this incident, and similar others where people are taking matters into their own hands, or illegal and dangerous actions in reaction to either a actual crime, or sometimes just the perception of one to be taking place as that of 'Well people are getting sick and fed up with all this and they ain't gonna take it anymore'.

Well, as much as I try to make distinctions for him I think he actually believes there is justification in these actions based on how he perceives the world as it now and how it used to be.

 

[Bobbygun]

I'm saying that bullies used to have more of a free hand at one time, if they were the right kind of people. And they are no longer a special class of citizen that gets a blind eye turned on them and are put out by that change.

Looking back on this comment. Was the 40-year-old a minority? It wasn't mentioned in the story. I'm not understanding how a man of 70 pulling a gun on a man of 40 has to do with bullying. It's usually the other way around, particularly without the gun.

 

[RX-79G]

It's like I struck a nerve somehow. That was not my intent. I'm largely in agreement with you. If you got the idea that my "possible explanations" were an excuse for what the old guy did, that's not the case at all. I hope he has some serious repercussions for his actions (like Travis McMichael). Unfortunately, as you and others have pointed out, that's not likely to be the case. As for vandals and shoplifters, I don't want them shot, but I would at least like to see them fined or jailed instead of ignored. I really don't see where I advocated tolerating violence or vigilantism, because I don't.

This isn't the first time I've gotten an unexpected negative reaction to a post. It's possible I meander a bit too much.

I'm not reacting to you personally, just some of the ideas that seem embedded in your post and much of what is posted on this forum. You said exactly what many people are thinking.

"Lawlessness" and "tolerated" are terms that seems to be used largely by people that are gleefully premeditating violence, and I really think it's pretty screwed up to view the world as something that you can change for the better by shooting people. Yet it seems like that attitude pervades half the discussion, here.


The old man is a violent wacko, regardless of whatever stupid ideations he foolishly acted on. The victim is yet another example of how you can't go about your business because there's some Karen or a-hole around the corner playing freelance policeman, so instead you have to tiptoe around everyone less they kill you or screw up your life.

Which is probably how it felt to be a minority or woman in the 20th century, but now everyone is getting a taste of what it feels like to live in the shadow of other people's violent delusions.

 

[RX-79G]

Looking back on this comment. Was the 40-year-old a minority? It wasn't mentioned in the story. I'm not understanding how a man of 70 pulling a gun on a man of 40 has to do with bullying. It's usually the other way around, particularly without the gun.

The old guys attitude speaks of someone who believes that he has some authority that has neither been earned or given, but which is his to act on even with violence. Doesn't matter who he's bullying - probably some of his "friends" know exactly what it's like to cross him.

 

[ilikegunspdx]

Fwiw I think we are assuming a lot about a situation based on very little info and one we didn't witness ourselves.

 

[Catfishmoon]

I'm wondering if there is a 'common thread' with men in this age category and irrational, violent behavior.

I think the incident recently near Bellingham WA. where a person shot at a neighbor and then shot the two responding law enforcement officers with a shotgun involved a person of a similar age... While I think these types of incident occur amongst any age group, there is a number of older Americans who make these type of threats and then follow through.

 

[ma96782]

Aloha, Mark

 

[ma96782]

LOL.....leave it to the Pros.

Aloha, Mark

 

[Knobgoblin]

I think the incident recently near Bellingham WA. where a person shot at a neighbor and then shot the two responding law enforcement officers with a shotgun involved a person of a similar age... While I think these types of incident occur amongst any age group, there is a number of older Americans who make these type of threats and then follow through.

Senior citizens are bout that life. O.G.

 

[RVTECH]

While I think these types of incident occur amongst any age group, there is a number of older Americans who make these type of threats and then follow through.

Yea, and if this starts to become epidemic whats next? Anti's pushing for age limits for gun ownership ?

 

[RX-79G]

Yea, and if this starts to become epidemic whats next? Anti's pushing for age limits for gun ownership ?

More likely would be licenses for CC - oh wait, we have those. Maybe with a multiple choice test?

 

[Alexx1401]

Yea, and if this starts to become epidemic whats next? Anti's pushing for age limits for gun ownership ?

How many people are shot in Chitown daily? How many of those shooters are "old"? If we want to see "epidemic" I would say Chitown is a perfect example of it and "what they will do".

 

[OldBroad44]

I'm wondering if there is a 'common thread' with men in this age category and irrational, violent behavior.

Very insightful, @RVTECH . Yes. Men or women. Its just that its more of a social problem when it affects men. Alzheimer's and other forms of senile dementia destroy sections of the brain. If brain damage destroys the wrong section the person can become aggressive and violent, even though they were never like that when younger. Destruction of areas of brain that inhibit sexuality can cause what used to be an appropriately acting man to start propositioning everyone or even grabbing and trying to force sex on everyone. Bigger nursing homes usually have a section where all the caregivers are big strong men with skill in restraining such people without hurting them.

Very often by the time the brain damage occurs that causes disinhibited violence or sexuality, the person is not physically competent and strong enough to create a problem. But not always, especially with men. Once upon a time, it was pretty common that little girl visitors to a home were advised to stay out of the reach of the grandpa or great grandpa and don't sit on his lap no matter how he coaxed them.... Yup. He would molest them if they sat on his lap. But he was completely incapable of catching them.