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For investment purposes? From what I've seen over the years... not a great plan. While most don't necessarily depreciate much, failing temporary periods of artificial high market conditions, the rate of appreciation typically doesn't keep up with the annual cost of living increase.
There are some exceptions, of course. Like you pointed out with the M1. For most individuals, predicting what the future market and demand will be on any given firearm 10, 20 or 30 years from now is pure chance, IMHO. You also have to consider... looking at the M1 again... how liquid is it? The buyer pool willing to buy a $1k M1 is not all that vast. While they do and will sell it may take a considerable amount of time to find the right buyer. During an economic downturn... where emergency funds may be needed... it makes your "investment" even less liquid and may find yourself actually having to take a loss out of necessity.
Just a "for example". Say you bought a gun in 1980 for $300. Between then and now... the average cost of living increase is about 3.1% per annum. What that means is... in terms of buying power... you would have to sell that gun, today, for a bit over $1,100 just to break even.
For emergency funds I believe you're better off living within your budget, setting aside savings every paycheck and investing it wisely... vs... speculative risks.
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Have you considered the storage and transfer-ability of firearms compared to silver or gold for example? Certain firearms may indeed hit a depreciation floor and some will go up in value. Whether they will go up enough to cover inflation is another question to consider.
I would think if you are doing it strictly for investment purposes, it's probably not a great investment. I have bought tons and tons of firearms but don't expect them to make me wealthy. If I hadn't bought firearms I would have bought something else because money burns holes in my pockets.
Anti gun laws could ruin or help increase the value of your investment. If you do buy some for investment purposes try to buy them close to the depreciation floor so your losses will be minimized.
I would think if you are doing it strictly for investment purposes, it's probably not a great investment. I have bought tons and tons of firearms but don't expect them to make me wealthy. If I hadn't bought firearms I would have bought something else because money burns holes in my pockets.
Anti gun laws could ruin or help increase the value of your investment. If you do buy some for investment purposes try to buy them close to the depreciation floor so your losses will be minimized.
My take is that they're a store of value, though not necessarily an investment grade value. Especially with myself as I buy new so I'll more than likely take a hit down the road one way or another, however the will never ever be worth zero dollars, even if the only way to sell happened to be the black market.
Your vehicle? Eventually worth scrap prices. Your 60" TV? You'll haul it to the dump and PAY to be rid of it. Your bed? Please, nobody's gonna buy that, especially if it has love stains. But your guns... Those you can get a few dollars for any time you want.
Your vehicle? Eventually worth scrap prices. Your 60" TV? You'll haul it to the dump and PAY to be rid of it. Your bed? Please, nobody's gonna buy that, especially if it has love stains. But your guns... Those you can get a few dollars for any time you want.
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Agreed but purely from an investment stand point gold would be a more liquid store of value. I deal with a lot of people coming in to sell their guns. I buy some and pass on some but I will always buy real gold if the customer accepts the price. They are both stores of value but gold seems to be easier to convert to cash and doesn't have the legal hoops required to convert to cash (unless the government decides to confiscate gold).
Here is a good start for somebody wanting to buy some gold. Get testing equipment so you know what you're buying.
Men’s 14k white gold ring
I bought this ring in 2004 for around $500 and its been worthless since 2014. Haha. Keep lugging it around to sell it and then it gets lost in the safe. Well, it’s time to get melted down or whatever you hold guys/gals want to do with it. Make me a cash offer. I’m interested in .22lr pistols for...
www.northwestfirearms.com
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Not so much anymore.
Gun owners are often fickle...and what is in high demand now...may not be later when you try and sell.
Many gun owners are cheap , as in a bad way...Always wanting something for nothing.
FFL dealers and gun shops need to make a profit...so while selling to them , can be easy...the amount you get won't be as much as with a private sale...also that fickle thing...dealers need to have items that will sell ...not items that might sell , someday....
Not to forget all the BS laws and requirements to go through with a legal private sale..that headache can easily make or break a sale.
Andy
Gun owners are often fickle...and what is in high demand now...may not be later when you try and sell.
Many gun owners are cheap , as in a bad way...Always wanting something for nothing.
FFL dealers and gun shops need to make a profit...so while selling to them , can be easy...the amount you get won't be as much as with a private sale...also that fickle thing...dealers need to have items that will sell ...not items that might sell , someday....
Not to forget all the BS laws and requirements to go through with a legal private sale..that headache can easily make or break a sale.
Andy
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Under what conditions do you envision "cashing in" on your investment in firearms? I would think the answer to that question, more than anything, would influence the viability and/or prudence of firearms as a value store.
Personally, in a status quo scenario, I don't see them being the best bang for your buck for the reasons others have outlined above. In a SHTF scenario, I could envision them as being extremely valuable, but you would have to be highly selective about who you're trading them away to considering that they are tools that can quite easily be turned against you once the deal is done.
Personally, in a status quo scenario, I don't see them being the best bang for your buck for the reasons others have outlined above. In a SHTF scenario, I could envision them as being extremely valuable, but you would have to be highly selective about who you're trading them away to considering that they are tools that can quite easily be turned against you once the deal is done.
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Take the advice from @arakboss toward gold and apply it to firearms. In other words, if you educate yourself as to firearms, they are one of the best returning investments you can ever make.
You need not "know everything about guns", but can focus on a specific arena showing promise toward a return. In this venture, knowledge IS power. Educated, you will know what makes one gun more desirable than others, and what characteristics might cause it to be of less value. No one can predict "the next big thing" in gun investments, but an educated investor can perhaps get in early on "the current big thing".
Drawbacks:
Not instantly liquid. However, if you buy right on the right gun, you can ALWAYS get your initial investment back in relatively short order.
Regulations: negotiating all the steps for a sale is becoming more onerous in many locales, but is still mostly a geographic problem.
The investor runs the risk of becoming attached to the gun. (This is my issue: I have trouble selling, especially if I've hunted with the gun.)
Attributes:
Not many investments are fun to play with while you own them.
Not many investments allow the enjoyment of learning a nearly endless stream of information and history.
Your return is tax-free. Even though you MAY have to tell Uncle Sugar you have the gun, what you get for it when you sell is none of his damned
business. I don't believe gold can make that same claim (but I'm not educated there). Fine art is the only competitor to guns in this important
advantage.
At this period in time, the "old guard" of gun collectors is fading away. Estate sales and auctions can produce shocking bargains on excellent prospects for return.
Warnings:
RARELY is a modern production gun (still in production) a good investment.
"Commemoratives" (while made for "collectors") almost without exception are a poor source of return.
Rarity does NOT always translate to value. A rare gun must also be a desirable gun in order to realize increased value due to its rarity.
Condition, condition, condition: An unremarkable gun in remarkable condition can exceed in value a remarkable gun in fair condition.
Don't expect to pay for a child's college education with the return from one gun, but I know a few collectors that have..
I haven't. But only because I don't have kids.
You need not "know everything about guns", but can focus on a specific arena showing promise toward a return. In this venture, knowledge IS power. Educated, you will know what makes one gun more desirable than others, and what characteristics might cause it to be of less value. No one can predict "the next big thing" in gun investments, but an educated investor can perhaps get in early on "the current big thing".
Drawbacks:
Not instantly liquid. However, if you buy right on the right gun, you can ALWAYS get your initial investment back in relatively short order.
Regulations: negotiating all the steps for a sale is becoming more onerous in many locales, but is still mostly a geographic problem.
The investor runs the risk of becoming attached to the gun. (This is my issue: I have trouble selling, especially if I've hunted with the gun.)
Attributes:
Not many investments are fun to play with while you own them.
Not many investments allow the enjoyment of learning a nearly endless stream of information and history.
Your return is tax-free. Even though you MAY have to tell Uncle Sugar you have the gun, what you get for it when you sell is none of his damned
business. I don't believe gold can make that same claim (but I'm not educated there). Fine art is the only competitor to guns in this important
advantage.
At this period in time, the "old guard" of gun collectors is fading away. Estate sales and auctions can produce shocking bargains on excellent prospects for return.
Warnings:
RARELY is a modern production gun (still in production) a good investment.
"Commemoratives" (while made for "collectors") almost without exception are a poor source of return.
Rarity does NOT always translate to value. A rare gun must also be a desirable gun in order to realize increased value due to its rarity.
Condition, condition, condition: An unremarkable gun in remarkable condition can exceed in value a remarkable gun in fair condition.
Don't expect to pay for a child's college education with the return from one gun, but I know a few collectors that have..
I haven't. But only because I don't have kids.
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I don't see firearms as a way to make money in the investment sense. Yes you can make money buying what is rare and valuable now because it will only get more rare and valuable with time Just like art. But standard production run type guns there are so many of them and they just keep making more don't really go up in value beyond the rate of inflation.
That being said I believe their value is increasing dramatically with ownership. The more "they" try to regulate the more valuable ownership becomes. Couple that with the ability to protect, defend and feed you and your's as SHTF happens and they become quite valuable.
That being said I believe their value is increasing dramatically with ownership. The more "they" try to regulate the more valuable ownership becomes. Couple that with the ability to protect, defend and feed you and your's as SHTF happens and they become quite valuable.
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I think due to politics artificially adjusting the market that's not a good deal anymore. Depending on when you bought, percentage wise I could argue ammo is a better investment.
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If scale has anything to do with it, guns are both a resounding no , and a solid yes.
Say I have $20k in guns that I would sell. No way I can get even 15k back without weeks or even months of effort. On the other hand, I can see a couple grand in cash within 2 or 3 days pretty easily ( possibly losing some value).
A pile like that isn't really hard to accumulate if you focus on it exclusively.
Say I have $20k in guns that I would sell. No way I can get even 15k back without weeks or even months of effort. On the other hand, I can see a couple grand in cash within 2 or 3 days pretty easily ( possibly losing some value).
A pile like that isn't really hard to accumulate if you focus on it exclusively.
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Here's some incentive:
I "lumped" for Mr. McBride when I was a kid (helping him set up and tear down at shows), and handled this Colt's Walker more than a few times. If you're impressed by the selling price, rumor has it that it has since re-sold "for an undisclosed sum".
While values have moderated some in recent years, the big money for the right guns is ALWAYS there, and the big money is becoming increasingly interested in firearms for investment purposes. That's called "an indicator".
I "lumped" for Mr. McBride when I was a kid (helping him set up and tear down at shows), and handled this Colt's Walker more than a few times. If you're impressed by the selling price, rumor has it that it has since re-sold "for an undisclosed sum".
While values have moderated some in recent years, the big money for the right guns is ALWAYS there, and the big money is becoming increasingly interested in firearms for investment purposes. That's called "an indicator".
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Such would require a crystal ball in hand 8-10 years ago before the drought. (see "next big thing" above), and your constant competitor would be current retail prices. Never a good thing.
The guys who bought up all the .22lr they could find (in hopes of cutting a fat hog) when the drought started had better have already turned it, or the current glut would ruin them.
However: confining your comparison to the poor decision to invest in modern, current production firearms, your contention has serious merit.
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Modern current production guns...nope...bad for investment.
Too many out there...many to choose from.
Collector , out of production guns...nope not so much....mostly.
Where I live I see many collector guns for sale...not many being sold.
Pre-64 Winchesters are very nice...and desirable...however...not many being sold at their asking price.
Same with older S&W revolvers...again nice and desirable...just not many being sold at their asking price.
I see the same ones at the local shops and gun shows , again and again....
And this may not be a case of "asking too much " / more than the worth....
It is a case of asking too much , for the location of the sale.
If you have one of the above...local sales , probably won't do it...
Internet sales , might...but ....
Lots of competition out there as well.
Andy
Too many out there...many to choose from.
Collector , out of production guns...nope not so much....mostly.
Where I live I see many collector guns for sale...not many being sold.
Pre-64 Winchesters are very nice...and desirable...however...not many being sold at their asking price.
Same with older S&W revolvers...again nice and desirable...just not many being sold at their asking price.
I see the same ones at the local shops and gun shows , again and again....
And this may not be a case of "asking too much " / more than the worth....
It is a case of asking too much , for the location of the sale.
If you have one of the above...local sales , probably won't do it...
Internet sales , might...but ....
Lots of competition out there as well.
Andy
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You can make money buying and selling used firearms but you will probably want an FFL to avoid jail time. There are many sellers out there who don't want to invest the time/effort it takes to get top dollar for their firearms. I see it a lot. They will sell them well below market values if it is convenient. I wouldn't consider it an investment but there is a lot of money that can be made.
DON'T LISTEN TO ALL THESE NAYSAYERS! GUNS ARE A TERRIFIC INVESTMENT!
The last gun I sold, I DOUBLED my money. No need to talk about how I had owned it for 30 years and could have earned more on a bank CD. So, maybe from a financial standpoint, not the best investment.
Guns make me happy.
The last gun I sold, I DOUBLED my money. No need to talk about how I had owned it for 30 years and could have earned more on a bank CD. So, maybe from a financial standpoint, not the best investment.
Guns make me happy.
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This illustrates another reason toward investment: With very few people "replacing" the old guard of gun collectors, prices moderate to a degree. "Youngsters" have little or no interest in good Winchesters or Smiths.
At the recent Missoula show, I would have to agree with @Andy54Hawken: I saw very little money changing hands, stated my observation to others and they concurred. But these (attendees) are working men by and large. That previously discretional income is sadly gone from the backbone of America. It may very well come back.
But I will call out Andy regarding repeatedly noting, "not many sold at their asking price".
When was the last time you paid asking price at a gun show???
... but true.I wonder about reloading equipment. Most of the folks I know that reload, well, they're not young. As we age out, will there be any demand for our old equipment? I think the only reason the reloading industry is still hanging on is because of the ammo shortages making it where you roll your own or you don't shoot.
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Tghe only time firearms are a valid investment is when you are buying at wholesale for resale at retail i.e. a dealer. Otherwise they are an abysmal investment.
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Perhaps you speak from personal experience, and it's hard to argue with that. But as to my experience,
I took one short-term return from an "abysmal investment" and made a truly abysmal investment in a new pickup truck.
...and believe me, I do appreciate those who've chosen by personal experience not to participate as my competition.
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