FAL or AR

[Riot]

that's why I said "most" people will be non-violent. you will have people who are violent, but the majority of people you see won't snap yo sh!t up for your supplies.

Really? Even you post that you would steal from a store if it was in your best interest- then you go to state that you would shoot someone trying to take the store by force instead of looking for an exit. You created a situation to encounter a violent outcome by doing the following:

1) Looting (even if it is antibiotic cream, you are looting)
2) Openly carrying a firearm to force people to either be intimidated by you or target you

You lack the tactical skills to survive during a SHTF scenario and will only be further arming the "bad guys" because of your naive little pipe dreams that "we can all get along and survive together".

We don't all suddenly turn into animals. Morals exist.

Ever heard of a flash mob? Our society is one internet post away from moral breakdown. You think that if the police sirens stop singing people will just automatically be civil? HA!

So basically you would kill me for my supplies.

Yes, yes I would. If you and I were in a SHTF scenario and you walked into a store with me holding a rifle, alone, next to me and I had the drop on you I would shoot you and take your supplies in a heartbeat.

Oh and if I was hungry I would eat you too.

I hope you get the point of this post and that is you need a wake up call...take the above how you want.

the debate is over .308 or .223. hence, i am sticking with my .223 arguement.

Then wtf is with the walking down WalMart with the rifle argument? I'll be first to admit when I'm playing Devil's advocate (like with the whole shoot you and eat you post) but your scenario calls more for a concealed pistol than a rifle at all.

a wolf in sheep's clothing is treated like a sheep. a wolf with only his fur is feared like a wolf. a sheep in sheep's clothing dies.

...and a sheepdog among the sheep will sacrifice it's life to kill the wolf. You know little of this mindset. You can either be a sheep, a wolf or a sheepdog. To me, you're just a sheep with a rifle.

Do you have enough medical supplies to last you a very long time, or if your best friend came up to your door with a stab wound? If you do, congrats. But you're bound to run out of something eventually. If I do not want to be noticed, I would ofcourse bring only a concealed pistol. If I do want to be noticed, I would sling a rifle over my chest. I'm glad you have military training, and thanks for serving our country. But your lethality and effectiveness can only compare to your level of training. do know that there is training available for us civilians.

Then get some...and not in just marksmanship but in GUNFIGHTING.

I'm talking about how in shtf, even the "bad guys" are aware that medical services are not available. They are trying to survive.

F-them, I have a gun I can take what I need.

(not my mentality, but you need to embrace the fact that this mentality exists- otherwise you will be shot and eaten on the side of the road because you risked your life to go to Wally world for some feel good medicine)

My friend's grandfather was vietcong. he said they only carried around 100 rounds AT MOST. Many of their engagements were pure guerilla tactics. Move in, Move out. Not the U.S tactic of move in, take ground, and protect the perimeter of newly acquired territory. The vietcong did not have to carry 200-300 rounds as their combat load out. Especially the ones armed with slow rifles like the mosin.

You know that we lost Vietnam, right? Maybe you should call up your Grandfather and get to know some of the tactics and techniques that worked for him instead of arguing with me on the internet about what may or may not work- why not get some advice about what did work?

Nah, I'll think I'll do just fine. I got a neighbor who's a cop and a family friend who has agreed to collaborate during shtf or emergencies, and my best friend is a Marine back from Iraq and he has agreed to hunker in my house during shtf because he lives in a crowded apartment. I have weapons I know how to use. I've already had firearms training with an ex-soviet policeman multiple times. I have months of food, water, and medical supplies. I have thousands of rounds. I have communication and emergency gasoline. I have a house that is easy to navigate and protect. I would use my discretion to whether or not conceal my weapon. If it is early into a shtf and i'm in a public area, I would obviously carry a concealed pistol. But if sh!t really goes down, and its long term shtf, and all the stores are abandoned and looted... you'll see me carrying my rifle. if you see me, i invite you to try shooting me with your concealed pistol buddy. Cuz if it's a long term shtf, and its months into it, there won't be many people in the store. Me and my buddy will have my eyes on you. And if i see you fumbling for your pistol... pop pop pop like popcorn and its over for you. Do you get my point? Tell me why you military folks brandish your M4s and M16s in busy Afghani village markets? Why not just carry a concealed pistol? Aren't you being a huge target for those taliban snitches? It's the same concept is it not? It's the balance between subtleness and potential for being treated like a sheep. It's all up to personal discretion. Look here buddy, I'm not gonna brandish my rifle in a thousand people crowd near the superdome any time soon. i am talking about long term shtf, when sh!t goes down.

*sigh*

Sounds like you are a dream come true for a raider...someone with all the supplies in the world but has no idea how to make sure nobody else will take them from him. Most of what I've posted is to try to wake you up. If what you say is true (about the guns ammo and other provisions) then you need the gun fighting mentality- not more gear. You need to know how to do a patrol how to assess threats and targets. How to conduct ambushes and defend against them, how to conduct a recon and how to neutralize high value targets.

 

[SurvivalistSong]

^ Hey bud, I'm glad your supposed military experience will help you in SHTF. You sound like a typical young jarhead punk who just came back from an overseas deployment.

All I sense in your most recent post is "oh yea, i'm bad ***. I'm going to kill people for their supplies and eat them too if I have to. I have military training so I'm Delta Force baby hur derpy derp".

I'm not sure if you have been to the middle east recently, and I don't know what you saw there if you have, but here's an idea. Those insurgents wanted to snap ur sh*t up because you were a foreign invader who didn't belong there. When shtf happens here, I guarantee you it won't be long term in our lifetime. And people who think there will be a complete WROL and break-down of society in the United States within our lifetime are all delusional.

So take as an example the L.A Riots as a temporary short-term SHTF scenario. If you're old enough to remember, looters went crazy in Koreatown in downtown L.A. The shops that weren't looted were ones where the korean shop owners and a dozen of their family members were brandishing their rifles and shotguns openly telling people not to f*ck with them. Piss off with your concealment idea. Some koreans with itty bitty pistols got shot anyways by the looters and died. The shops with the owners on the roof tops with 12g shotguns and waving their ar-15s in the air whenever they saw a black/mexican person (racist, but thats what happened. deal with it) had their shops untouched.

LA Riots Korean Store. - YouTube


the above video was a very widely watched news scene where korean shopowners were openly brandishing their guns and shooting in complete rage at people looting from their friend's stores (koreans have a tight knit community in L.A). There was a large korean warehouse across the street where there were 5 family members with hunting rifles and shotguns. Sure, some looters shot back with their guns, but after the riots ended... the same two koreans you see in this video had their store STANDING, their supplies INTACT, their lives SAVED, and didn't have their store looted and burned to the ground by molotov cocktails. Why? because they were openly carrying weapons in a shtf scenario where people are everywhere in panic. Like I said, if you don't look intimidating, you're just a wolf in sheeps clothing.

screw what you think about concealment and being stealthy. oh looky here we have a Navy SEAL member huh? ha! if you were that skilled, you wouldn't even be arguing with a civilian like me about survival tactics.





your tactics would work if you were around a bunch of armed national guard members during shtf (wouldn't want to be openly brandishing an AK47), but your tactic does not always apply to a scenario like the l.a riots where law enforcers are not present.




and patrolling, assessing threats, anbushes, and recon?

I'm sure I can handle it if a fresh out of highschool or college drop-out 18 year old can go through that kind of training and be plopped into the middle of a warzone like an ant.



and me not being able to protect my supplies? listen kid, i already told you i'll have friends and family all armed to the teeth guarding my home because of its prime location and my mass amount of supplies. and don't start to think an engineer like me can't build many "things" (wink wink) that would serve to protect my castle and neutralize threats.




This aint iraq. there's no chain of command in a domestic shtf.






you hunker down.
you collaborate with family and friends.
you protect your property and supplies
and ride out the storm.


and if for whatever reason you need to go out where other people are present, you either conceal carry or brandish your weapon according to the situation.

 

[SurvivalistSong]

and yea, I know that mentality you stated multiple times in your previous post exists. That's why I have guns.

 

[SurvivalistSong]

I think what is perpetuating this arguement is a simple lack of miscommunication and misunderstanding. After several of your posts, I still do not understand your overall plan for shtf. And judging by your flawed interpretations of my tactics, I take it that you also do not fully understand my plan.



My plan is outlined in bold two posts up at the end of the post. Do you have anything to criticize about that plan? If you do, then this debate is completely futile because one of us has a ridiculous and hysterical mindset when it comes to shtf.

 

[SurvivalistSong]

And what upsets me the most is that it seems to me you assume I am some stereotypical trigger happy dream-warrior modern warfare 3 fool.

I, just like many people in this forum, have put deep thought and training and preparation in my shtf plan. I take what has been seen in prior shtf situations in both domestic situations and foreign such as the complete collapse of Bosnia a few decades ago, and apply them into my plan. I have taken training sessions in gunfighting and tactics, and my physical training excedes most military training regiments. I can go on and on about my preparation.

Like I said, this is probably all a misunderstanding. Because while you are assuming i'm a trigger happy warrior-dreamer fool, I was sensing you were the same after I read your most recent post. In fact, I would go as far as to say you typed that post after playing your xbox and watching the movie Taken with liam neeson.

and i bet i sounded like that to you too.


try PMing me next time instead of making both me and yourself look like a bunch of babbling buffoons.

 

[Crispy]

I thought this thread was about FAL or AR (7.62 or 5.56).

Oh how this digressed...

 

[Riot]

I thought this thread was about FAL or AR (7.62 or 5.56).

Oh how this digressed...

Like every other thread in NWF

Anyhoot this overseas jarhead punk is unsubscribing before it gets locked (mainly due to me feeding the troll).

 

[SurvivalistSong]

Me? A troll? hardly. i was serious with all my posts and you were the first to criticize my ideas. i am also unsubscribing from this clusterf*ck.

 

[mjbskwim]

The thing that make you a troll is your 7 posts in a row.

 

[jdub75]

Christ Ya'll. Poor OP was looking for some opinions, not a battle. Take it to private message/email for his sake!

 

[Grunwald]

Christ Ya'll. Poor OP was looking for some opinions, not a battle. Take it to private message/email for his sake!

yes he was, but the war of words was so much more fun to follow.

 

[slimmer13]

Blueberry muffins


Ingredients
1 1/2 cups all-purpose flour
3/4 cup white sugar
1/2 teaspoon salt
2 teaspoons baking powder
1/3 cup vegetable oil
1 egg
1/3 cup milk
1 cup fresh blueberries
1/2 cup white sugar
1/3 cup all-purpose flour
1/4 cup butter, cubed
1 1/2 teaspoons ground cinnamon




Directions
1. Preheat oven to 400 degrees F (200 degrees C). Grease muffin cups or line with muffin liners.
2. Combine 1 1/2 cups flour, 3/4 cup sugar, salt and baking powder. Place vegetable oil into a 1 cup measuring cup; add the egg and enough milk to fill the cup. Mix this with flour mixture. Fold in blueberries. Fill muffin cups right to the top, and sprinkle with crumb topping mixture.
3. To Make Crumb Topping: Mix together 1/2 cup sugar, 1/3 cup flour, 1/4 cup butter, and 1 1/2 teaspoons cinnamon. Mix with fork, and sprinkle over muffins before baking.
4. Bake for 20 to 25 minutes in the preheated oven, or until done.

 

[Just Jim]

Should be a time when you have to argue that you take it to the PMs and leave it out of a thread.

People choose what is right for them, be it AR or Fal. All people are different so you should expect different answers. Just be thankful you live in a country where you are free to make the choice.

jj

 

[RB87]

Somewhat on topic, anyone have any experience with the DSA Fals that Cheaper than dirt sells? Prices sure seem good.

 

[greycobra_03]

Whatever you like better. Lighter weight ammo and parts availability for the AR, better effectiveness through cover and general toughness for the FAL.

My weapon of choice is my awesome Keltec RFB... because of a combination of issues.

 

[Grunwald]

Somewhat on topic, anyone have any experience with the DSA Fals that Cheaper than dirt sells? Prices sure seem good.

DSA is considered a premium American FAL maker so you'll be getting a top notch rifle from them.

 

[biker bo]

I've owned AR's in the past. I now own FAL's. For a SHTF rifle IMO you can't beat the FAL. Don't know if someone has posted this already ( way tooooo much B.S. to read ) but check on the FAL Files the story of Old Dirty. 20.000 + rounds and it's not been cleaned.

 

[eganx]

Id take my FAL.......

 

[kickstart my heart]

This could be a never ending argument, that really boils down to what you like better. I prefer the AR because it's lighter, I can carry more ammo for it, and parts are more readily available it would seem. The FAL is tough, reliable, and fires a bigger round that will put someone down. That's not to say .223/5.56 won't. Obviously it works. A friend of mine who was overseas had the conversation about knock down power and shot placement with me. He said from personal experience, sometimes that's not enough. He told me about a guy that had 7 rounds of .308 put into center mass before he died. His point was, .223 or .308, they both work, but sometimes it's not the all deciding factor.

I own several AR's. I've owned FAL's, M14's, HK91's, M1 Garands, AK's, etc. My current 7.62 "battle rifle" I've settled on is a Noveske N6 with a 16" barrel. I enjoy shooting it more than the other 7.62 battle rifles I've owned (which is why I don't feel the need to own the others anymore). Now if the SHTF, and I could grab one rifle, I'd grab one of my AR's chambered in .223/5.56. Why? Because...It's lighter, I can carry more ammo, I have more trigger time behind them, parts would be easier to find, it's more compact, the pouches on my vest are for m-16 mags, and I own more mags for it, and I could more easily find m-16 mags vs. AR-10 mags in a situation like that. Just personal choices on my part. Doesn't make one more superior than the other.

I'd say, just own both. Hand the AR to your wife, girlfriend, whatever. Take the FAL for yourself.

 

[biker bo]

DSA is considered a premium American FAL maker so you'll be getting a top notch rifle from them.

Check out this video.

<broken link removed>