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M1A/M14, FAL, or Saiga .308. I wanna be throwing bricks if if comes to that, and I dont wanna be messing with no lego set if it comes to that .
I tend to stay out of these discussions because are we talking about weapons or tactics? Seems it leans to one side or the other with no clear picture for an answer.
jj
Hi Just Jim,
I would imagine that weapons and tactics intertwine intimately. Your choice of weapon would depends on preconceived tactics, and vise versa.
Exactly what I was talking about. The weapon you choose will limit your tactics so to ask which is better depends on what you intend your world to be like in a SHTF.
i agree. so the debate is not a debate of which rifle is "better" per se, but rather a debate of what we conceive a shtf scenario to consist of on a situational basis.
In regards to Blue Devil PA and slimer13's comments:
We are talking about shtf.... wrol..... society is f*cked up and people are hurting eachother to survive. A good real life example of this would be the immediate aftermath of Hurricane Katrina and during the L.A riots. Both situations were 100% shtf scenarios, and nobody can debate against that fact.
And I am also talking about the suburbs & urban areas, not rural areas where people own several acres of open land.
in a suburb/urban area during shtf, you most likely have most people out and about cooperating and not harming eachother... looking for supplies and help. The point of carrying a rifle would be to deter or neutralize the "bad apples" of the population that WILL harm you for their own gains. in a situation like this where you remain in close proximity to other people, you DO NOT want overpenetration. imagine this very likely scenario: you get a cut from a piece of rebar while trekking through a disaster zone and you ran out of antibiotics. luckily your local walmart, although ransacked and pillaged, still might have some antibiotic ointments left. you walk to there and find many people scavaging for supplies. although they don't have a smile on their faces, they are not harming you, and minding their own business. suddenly, a man with a pistol rushes into the store and starts shooting and yelling "this store now belongs to me!". You have people panicking and running everywhere to safety. Would you want a .308/7.62NATO that'll rip through him, a brick wall, and several other people (exxageration)?
Plus, "I wanna be throwing bricks" - slimer13.... what would be the purpose of lodging a huge 7.62NATO round in a man during shtf? you are talking about a situation where people are trying to survive. even the "bad guys" are just trying to survive. a 7.62NATO may be nice in a battlefield/war where people are willing to SACRIFICE their life to fight, but when we're talking about shtf, a single 5.56NATO/.223 will neutralize the threat. why? because one hit of a 5.56NATO will send ANY man running when he is trying to SURVIVE. plus, in a shtf scenario, a 5.56NATO to anywhere on the body (besides extremeties) would result in a fatality due to lack of medical services available, and the same goes for 7.62NATO. So the mortality rate of getting hit by a 5.56NATO and a 7.62NATO would be equal. Sure, a person may survive a 5.56NATO in a battlefield after getting hit in the abdomen because of the medical treatment facilities readily available... but in shtf, all the doctors and surgeons are hiding in their bunkers with their canned beans. And have you seen the ballistics gel results of 5.56NATO and 7.62NATO? although, ofcourse, the 7.62 leaves a larger wound channel... both rounds would be MORE THAN SUFFICIENT to incapacitate or kill. most incapacitations will likely result in death due to infections and bleeding and lack of available medical services. the human body is at times resilient, but also extremely fragile.
and ofcourse there's the issue of weight of the rounds. if you're ever in a situation where you have to pull out your rifle instead of a handgun or shotgun, it will most likely be in an engagement distance of 50yds or more. in such a situation, the main tactic used would be to cover fire and move. in other words, you will be using many many many rounds in the hopes of moving in for the kill, or deterring the bad guy and persuade him to leave. Also during shtf, even if you had a bugout vehicle, walking would probably be the main mode of transportation because it is quiet and requires no petrol. have you ever served in the armed forces? the difference between carrying a M4 and a combat loadout and carrying a rifle comparable to a .308 FAL and a combat loadout is like the difference between heaven and hell after you've patrolled 15 miles. the 7.62 round is considerable larger and heavier than the 5.56NATO, and .308 rifles tend to be heavier than .223 rifles.
in any case, if i was bunkered in my home with family members and friends, i'd keep many different rifles, many different handguns, many different shotguns, and many different marksman/sniper rifles. rifles for general purpose use (most likely in my household AR-15s and AK-47s). handguns for personal defense (everybody carries one at all times). shotguns for guarding the house at close ranges and indoors (12 guage buckshot or birdshot), and the marksman/sniper rifle for the people on scout duty on top of the roof looking for potential bad guys or suspicious people approaching my homely abode (this would be where .308 comes into play. lets say, a dragunov or my romanian PSL).
But let's say i'm out on patrol in my bugout vehicle with a buddy, and i'm out to get some more supplies from pillaged stores. I would personally carry an AR-15 slinged across my chest, a 9mm handgun holstered by my waist, and a 12g shotgun in my trunk. why would i not bring my m1A?
because accuracy and firepower is nice, but speed kills.
There are way too many problems with this post...too many to point them all out.
I just talked to a local engineer he is working on an AR in 308