Diesel Crisis Deepens As Inventories Fall To Dangerous Levels

[joken]

I hope I can get home from my elk hunt next week.

 

[Lazyfaire]

Buy extra of your necessities. Supply chains are gonna suck again.

Gas up completely and just keep topping it up for a while. No more running it down to a 1/4 and filling it back up.
Fill up the propane tanks
Diesel runs the world!

 

[gmerkt]

Uh-oh. No Froot Loops on the shelf in future.

 

[TNThomas]

I am guessing not, but are any of the new diesels capable of partially running on WVO or motor oil? Ive always been drawn to older diesels because of this.

 

[ATCclears]

Anyone have contacts in the Southeast who can provide trusted observations 'on the ground'?

 

[Siglvr]

25 days diesel supply doesn't mean we will run out in 25 days. That's an indication of current supply/demand curve is all. There is price elasticity, and as the price rises, discretionary trips and LTL (less than a load via class 8 diesels) will decline as supply ramps up due to increased pricing. I'm not saying to discount that, but it's not chicken little the sky is falling. It's indicative of current balance is all.

Now chicken little, on the other hand, might be happening right now (soon), the sky is falling and it appears that the components that go into diesel engine oil are running out. Same-same but different, and real. It had been predicted to occur just before the midterms as the 2 main suppliers of additives had declared "Force Majure" last summer (that is, we are weaseling out of our contract due to things beyond our control) and were not going to fulfill their contracts but you can buy what we have and that's about 3 months worth. Someone may have figured it out as that crash hasn't happened yet.

The big diesels (and trains etc) need 3 things to run. Diesel Fuel, Diesel engine oil, and Def blue. All 3 are getting iffy.

 

[Provincial]

I heard an interview with a bulk oil distributor Thursday. He said that the supply is indeed tighter, but not to expect it to run out.

He had one positive piece of information. Apparently, several refineries which had not previously upgraded to Ultra-Low-Sulfur diesel have now decided to upgrade, and they will soon be back in production. They will be producing diesel meeting requirements for domestic use, and we can hope that they do not intend to export the product.

 

[PenTurner]

How will a diesel shortage effect heating oil or airplane fuel? Are they similar products? Will there be a shortage of heating oil this winter for those who heat with it? Just curious.

 

[kmk1012]

How will a diesel shortage effect heating oil or airplane fuel? Are they similar products? Will there be a shortage of heating oil this winter for those who heat with it? Just curious.

I heard on the radio n program I listen to last week that heating oil is already being rationed in certain areas.

 

[Provincial]

Where Oregon's fuels come from, according to the Oregon Department of Energy:

The western states are a region that is called PADD 5.

"There are 22 operating petroleum refineries in PADD 5, five of which are located on the Puget Sound in Washington. These five refineries provide more than 90 percent of the refined petroleum products used in Oregon, which are delivered via the Olympic pipeline and barge to seven Portland-area terminals. These terminals receive, store, blend, and transfer petroleum products. Most of the remaining 10 percent is delivered by barge, and a very small amount by rail. Some of this product flows in a pipeline south to Eugene, and in another pipeline to the Portland International Airport. The Eugene distribution hub serves southern, central, and eastern Oregon. More than 240 towboats with tank barges carry refined petroleum products up the Columbia River to Pasco, Washington to service eastern communities in Washington, Oregon, and Idaho."

Notice that they don't say where the crude oil comes from. I know for a fact that much comes from Alaska, mostly the North Slope.

Here is a link to the website I used:
https://energyinfo.oregon.gov/blog/2021/5/13/road-trip-where-oregon-gets-its-transportation-fuels

 

[Stomper]

How will a diesel shortage effect heating oil or airplane fuel? Are they similar products? Will there be a shortage of heating oil this winter for those who heat with it? Just curious.

Heating oil is #2 diesel fuel, it's just a slightly different "blend" (like off-road diesel with a red-ish dye tint added into in order to identify it) than "highway diesel", which has most (if not all) the sulfur refined out of it and has no dye markers added to it.

 

[The Heretic]

How will a diesel shortage effect heating oil or airplane fuel? Are they similar products? Will there be a shortage of heating oil this winter for those who heat with it? Just curious.

Jet fuel is a lighter/finer grade of diesel

Aircraft with piston engines generally run on gasoline - higher octane, often leaded or low lead

 

[Provincial]

Heating oil is #2 diesel fuel, it's just a slightly different "blend" (like off-road diesel with a red-ish dye tint added into in order to identify it) than "highway diesel", which has most (if not all) the sulfur refined out of it and has no dye markers added to it.

There have been three stages involved in the decline of diesel.

1) The Good Old Days: On-Highway diesel was not dyed, Off-Road diesel was dyed red, and heating oil was just Off-Road diesel. All were the same, high-sulfur diesel and came from the same source.

2) The First Stage of Decline: Low-Sulfur diesel became required for On-Road use and still had no dye, Off-Road and Heating oil stayed the same. Oregon required some Off-Road users, like asphalt plants, to use On-Road fuel, pay the road tax, and get a refund at the end of the year. No payment of interest on the taxes paid!

3) The Decline Accelerates: Ultra-Low Sulfur diesel became required for On-Road use, and had no dye. It was not required for Off-Road or heating oil use, but Oregon (and, I believe all the other West Coast states) required ULSD for all uses. The fuel again came from the same source, and the only difference was the dye.

 

[Provincial]

Jet fuel is a lighter/finer grade of diesel

Aircraft with piston engines generally run on gasoline - higher octane, often leaded or low lead

Jet fuel started out as Kerosene, and later became very specific because of additives and performance requirements developed with experience.

Kerosene was chosen for many reasons, but the main two were:

1) It was lighter than diesel, and performed well in colder air at altitude. It has about the same heat output per pound as diesel. Diesel is heavier, and puts out correspondingly more heat.

2) For refineries at that time, Kerosene was sort of a byproduct from making gasoline and diesel. They hadn't developed the technology to make crude oil into whatever they wanted, so they made the price very attractive to get rid of it. Jet fuel developed into one of the major products, and prices have risen as a result.

A few aircraft diesel engines have been built, starting in the early 1930's, but haven't caught on. Current aircraft diesels run on Jet-A, since it is certified for aircraft use. They put out more power on diesel.

 

[The Heretic]

Technically, diesel is the name for a ICE type of engine - a compression ignition internal combustion engine (generally piston type) and any fuel that will work in that type of engine.

Diesel type engines can run on various grades of fuel; "diesel" (a number of grades under this name), kerosene and turbine fuel (JP-x Jet-A or B, ATF, etc.) - it depends on the particular engine, but given care, a properly designed diesel engine can run on any of these fuels. The main thing is that the fuel has the right lubricity for the injection pump, and the right cetane rating for the combustion chamber.

Then there are the "bio-diesels" - which can be sourced from plants, algae, etc.

And also the synthetics (diesel made from a number of other sources - not petroleum or plants).

Finally there are also diesel cycle engines that run on CNG. Some can even both CNG & diesel.

As an aside, I plan to run propane fumigation (push propane into the intake manifold) in my truck (Cummins powered) for more power and better mileage.

 

[slimmer13]

My wife's cousin is an aircraft mechanic. When a jet goes into the hanger, it must be drained of fuel and that fuel is then considered contaminated, and cannot be reused in an airplane.

He runs his diesel pickup on half jet fuel, half diesel. He says if you run pure jet fuel, you just need to add some Marvel Mystery oil or a similar additive. He also found an old oil furnace for cheap and uses it to heat his shop running jet fuel.

 

[thorborg]

Our house is heated with diesel, after being converted from crude 30 years ago. The last fill up was about fourteen hundred dollars. It's been quite some time since it was five hundred dollar fill ups. Time to buy some new wool long johns I suppose.

 

[Stomper]

Technically, diesel is the name for a ICE type of engine - a compression ignition internal combustion engine (generally piston type) and any fuel that will work in that type of engine.

Diesel type engines can run on various grades of fuel; "diesel" (a number of grades under this name), kerosene and turbine fuel (JP-x Jet-A or B, ATF, etc.) - it depends on the particular engine, but given care, a properly designed diesel engine can run on any of these fuels. The main thing is that the fuel has the right lubricity for the injection pump, and the right cetane rating for the combustion chamber.

Then there are the "bio-diesels" - which can be sourced from plants, algae, etc.

And also the synthetics (diesel made from a number of other sources - not petroleum or plants).

Finally there are also diesel cycle engines that run on CNG. Some can even both CNG & diesel.

As an aside, I plan to run propane fumigation (push propane into the intake manifold) in my truck (Cummins powered) for more power and better mileage.

NERD!!

 

[Provincial]

NERD!!

 

[The Heretic]

NERD!!

I was an MK in a previous life - mostly diesels.