Example of consequences of carrying in a non-permissive environment

[Hueco]

I think that anytime new laws are passed and gun owners immediately and willingly comply it just gives the antis more strength. They know a large percentage of pro-2A folks will fold like a cheap suit as soon as they pass more "laws". Unconstitutional or not, too many are ready to give it all up because .gov says so.

The problem is, in general, to challenge a law you must have been directly affected by it.

So, let's say you not comply by going to PSU strapped and you make a show of it just for grins and giggles...you wind up in jail, then in court challenging Oregon's new law. You get sentenced to a fine, maybe some jail time or community service, and then you appeal the decision as far as it takes to try and get the law overturned and ruled unconstitutional.

You end up paying a lot of money for that journey all the while risking that the court *doesn't* side with you.

That's asking a lot of people. Now, I think a perfect solution would be if the NRA banded together with other orgs in this community to work pro-bono on cases that directly challenge the constitutionality of anti-gun legislation...at least if this were the case, you'd have a larger pool of people willing to take the chance and start pushing back, hard.

 

[Hueco]

That new Lightning is pretty damn sick.

It really is. I'm impressed. And all the reviews from long time truck folks are giving it a thumbs up. Great mileage range, great carry weight, looks cool, and pretty darn cheap.

You mean that suburban-soccer-dad truck?

 

[WalkingTall]

You mean that suburban-soccer-dad truck?

Yup, can't wait to skip the long gas line and plug in at home. Then haul the kids to soccer practice and school for the next three weeks without having to get gas or charge. Wow that sounds horrible, was there and insult somewhere in your response?

 

[Hueco]

Yup, can't wait to skip the long gas line and plug in at home. Then haul the kids to soccer practice and school for the next three weeks without having to get gas or charge. Wow that sounds horrible, was there and insult somewhere in your response?

A light jab, if you took it that way. The truck ain't my style but I am very much looking forward to when my wife graduates and she can be the breadwinner for a bit. Hanging out with daughter more sounds like a win for me.

 

[solv3nt]

Yup, can't wait to skip the long gas line and plug in at home. Then haul the kids to soccer practice and school for the next three weeks without having to get gas or charge. Wow that sounds horrible, was there and insult somewhere in your response?

Let me know how it works towing any sort of distance. Electric motors, like ICE's, use more power when under load.

 

[WalkingTall]

A light jab, if you took it that way. The truck ain't my style but I am very much looking forward to when my wife graduates and she can be the breadwinner for a bit. Hanging out with daughter more sounds like a win for me.

No it's all good, it was with a smirk. Heck yes! I like the sound of that. Good for you.

 

[WalkingTall]

Let me know how it works towing any sort of distance. Electric motors, like ICE's, use more power when under load.

I'll definitely be researching reviews on that.

 

[solv3nt]

I'll definitely be researching reviews on that.

I think I read that the range is like 300 miles, but I'm pretty sure that's unloaded in a flat highway doing 55mph.

 

[WalkingTall]

I think I read that the range is like 300 miles, but I'm pretty sure that's unloaded in a flat highway doing 55mph.

Yea I'm gonna wait once it comes out and see some road tests by consumers.

 

[billdeserthills]

https://media.ford.com/content/fordmedia/fna/us/en/news/2021/05/19/all-electric-ford-f-150-lightning.html

I'll happily grab one of these bad boys and save a ton of money on gas for guns.

Better save some of that gas money for your electric bill

 

[WalkingTall]

Portland has 432 public charging stations 31% of them are free. I won't be paying anything.

 

[RVTECH]

I think that anytime new laws are passed and gun owners immediately and willingly comply it just gives the antis more strength. They know a large percentage of pro-2A folks will fold like a cheap suit

Once again just playing 'devils advocate'.

Willingly complying to a law - ANY law - is not 'folding like a cheap suit' - it is a choice one makes based on their values and responsibilities and if they are willing to accept the consequences.

Do you routinely roll stop signs, or breeze through red lights? Do you shoplift? Or do you 'fold like a cheap suit' and comply with these or any of the 100's of other laws we all face (and typically comply with) daily?

My POINT IS if a law is passed, for what ever reason, and regardless of it's 'Constitutionality' - perceived or otherwise, it is expected to be complied with until at which time it is removed, changed or modified.

Describing following laws (any laws) as 'folding like a cheap suit' is complicit and unfairly intimidates those who responsibly DO follow the laws.

So in conclusion - don't blame gun owners 'who immediately and willingly comply' as the reason for 'giving the anti's more strength'. Do something such as create a proactive plan, or get involved materially or politically to change, modify or remove these 'Unconstitutional' laws because NOT complying ain't 'makin' the nut' and will NOT accomplish anything.

 

[Kruel J]

Once again just playing 'devils advocate'.

Willingly complying to a law - ANY law - is not 'folding like a cheap suit' - it is a choice one makes based on their values and responsibilities and if they are willing to accept the consequences.

Do you routinely roll stop signs, or breeze through red lights? Do you shoplift? Or do you 'fold like a cheap suit' and comply with these or any of the 100's of other laws we all face (and typically comply with) daily?

My POINT IS if a law is passed, for what ever reason, and regardless of it's 'Constitutionality' - perceived or otherwise, it is expected to be complied with until at which time it is removed, changed or modified.

Describing following laws (any laws) as 'folding like a cheap suit' is complicit and unfairly intimidates those who responsibly DO follow the laws.

So in conclusion - don't blame gun owners 'who immediately and willingly comply' as the reason for 'giving the anti's more strength'. Do something such as create a proactive plan, or get involved materially or politically to change, modify or remove these 'Unconstitutional' laws because 'not complying' ain't 'makin' the nut' and will NOT accomplish anything.

Traffic laws and other laws that we comply with every day aren't infringing on our RIGHT TO KEEP AND BEAR ARMS. Your argument doesn't work.

 

[WalkingTall]

Traffic laws and other laws that we comply with every day aren't infringing on our RIGHT TO KEEP AND BEAR ARMS. Your argument doesn't work.

One way to pragmatically look at it is this. The lifestyle, single issue 2A, never comply crowd of gun owners is small, a minority really. Alienating the casuals and everything inbetween gun owners isn't a good strategy. Telling them they aren't hardcore enough, yadda yadda. A lot of pro 2A change is going to come directly from voting in people who support it, so all the die hard lifestyle gun folk need the majority gun owners who aren't that a lot more than they need the hardcore type to make positive change for the 2A. So bash the casual gun owner all ya like, but it's their votes that will win the day for 2A. Not the hardcore guys.

And if I really had to point out what's hurting the 2A the most is all the unnecessary political ideologies attached to it. Left or right, if that wasn't an issue 2A laws wouldn't have a chance, but instead gun owners on both sides are too busy "owning the libs" and "bashing the fascists." Might be time for the 2A movement to grow up if it actually cares about it surviving.

 

[Flopsweat]

Gun or not, a 1 1/2" impact socket to the schnoz is gonna put the hurt on a bad guy. Followed by wrench after wrench, maybe the impact gun itself and hammers. Soooo many hammers.

Don't throw the 10mm socket!

 

[RVTECH]

Your argument doesn't work.

Actually nothing I said was argumentive but I'll accept that and add continually repeating 'infringement' or 'unconstitutionality' doesn't work as an argument either because the laws are getting passed no matter how many 1000s of times these words get said.

Quite frankly I have been hearing these two words for so long they have become trite and stale.

Ill make ONE MORE POINT in the form of a question - If ALL gun laws are 'unconstitutional' or 'infringing' how are they getting passed?
Well, it's either one of two things - they are either - 1, NOT deemed unconstitutional or infringing,
or 2, being passed with no 'backlash' from anyone or anything, legal or otherwise.

SO this leaves only THREE options - either do something MONUMENTAL to affect changes, continue to scream the 'two words' and stand on their collapsing soapbox, OR - concentrate on what you can do legally, live with it, enjoy and post some range reports & shooting pics.

There is NO 'in-between' with this and nothing more to say - it's either 'Phuck, fight or hold the light' and no amount of repeating the same two words, or projecting the 'blame' on people who RESPONSIBLY 'immediately and willingly comply by the laws' , OR NOT abiding by the laws is going to change ANYTHING.

 

[Dinglenutz]

https://media.ford.com/content/fordmedia/fna/us/en/news/2021/05/19/all-electric-ford-f-150-lightning.html

I'll happily grab one of these bad boys and save a ton of money on gas for guns.

I got in line for a CyberTruck. It's not a commitment but I was in line the first couple hours or so. I don't see how spending $50K for a vehicle frees up gun money but I'll def try that argument. Maybe.

 

[Flopsweat]

Actually nothing I said was argumentive but I'll accept that and add continually repeating 'infringement' or 'unconstitutionality' doesn't work as an argument either because the laws are getting passed no matter how many 1000s of times these words get said.

Quite frankly I have been hearing these two words for so long they have become trite and stale.

Ill make ONE MORE POINT in the form of a question - If ALL gun laws are 'unconstitutional' or 'infringing' how are they getting passed?
Well, it's either one of two things - they are either - 1, NOT deemed unconstitutional or infringing,
or 2, being passed with no 'backlash' from anyone or anything, legal or otherwise.

SO this leaves only THREE options - either do something MONUMENTAL to affect changes, continue to scream the 'two words' and stand on their collapsing soapbox, OR - concentrate on what you can do legally, live with it, enjoy and post some range reports & shooting pics.

There is NO 'in-between' with this and nothing more to say - it's either 'Phuck, fight or hold the light' and no amount of repeating the same two words, or projecting the 'blame' on people who RESPONSIBLY 'immediately and willingly comply by the laws' , OR NOT abiding by the laws is going to change ANYTHING.

Actually, there is plenty of in-between and we've been doing it for decades. Elect officials who will reverse bad laws and appoint judges (SC especially) who understand what 'no' means. It's very slow, there are occasional setbacks, both trivial and severe, and it can be quite frustrating, but it's something.


edit: sp

 

[Knobgoblin]

Better save some of that gas money for your electric bill

Extension cord to the closest leftist neighbors.

And poach their Wifi too

 

[American123]

Many places that have gun restrictions/laws in place preventing them from being on the premises are very problematic from my point of view because if I can't take it to work, that means I have been restricted in my personal time as well, traveling to and from work when I am not being paid by the employer. So basically they are allowed to infringe on my rights outside of my employment and outside of their property.

I also find it problematic because certain work locations are often the target of mass shootings. Areas with gun bans are like magnets because they know (legally) no one is armed there.