Europe and gun ownership...

[Goosebrown]

Nossir, they don't.

USA - the RIGHT to bear arms is guaranteed and safeguarded by the Constitution. Nobody has the counter-right to take your guns away from you.

ROW - the PRIVILEGE of owning arms is granted by the government. If, all of a sudden, the government decides that you can't have them - as happened in yUK in 1986 and 1996 - then they take them. Since the government said 'you can', the government can equally and easily say 'you can't.'

That is exactly the difference. In a nutshell.

I will stand corrected but I think the same thing goes for freedom of speech. In the UK you're barred from saying racist things or advocating violence. I know several holocaust deniers have been barred from even entering the UK.

Just last week they found someone in violation of being in a prohibited right wing group.

I think of the UK as mostly free but not by iron clad rights as much as custom

 

[wp4]

The last people to invade the UK did it back in 1066, when there were no guns around.

I understand your point regarding guns, but -

Do you not consider the German luftwaffe Blitz an invasion?

 

[tac]

That is exactly the difference. In a nutshell.

I will stand corrected but I think the same thing goes for freedom of speech. In the UK you're barred from saying racist things or advocating violence. I know several holocaust deniers have been barred from even entering the UK.

Just last week they found someone in violation of being in a prohibited right wing group.

I think of the UK as mostly free but not by iron clad rights as much as custom

Mostly right, GB.

The people found guilty and jailed for being in a prohibited right wing group made the KKK look like Girl Scouts. Their group openly advocated the mass slaughter of anybody who was not white and English. Inciting racial hatred is illegal here. So is advocating or fomenting acts of violence. Often those two go together.

 

[tac]

I understand your point regarding guns, but -

Do you not consider the German luftwaffe Blitz an invasion?

In WW2 the only Germans to set foot or body on mainland UK were prisoners of war, or the dead. Invasion is just that, occupation of a country by force. The movie 'It happened here' never happened here.

 

[wp4]

In WW2 the only Germans to set foot or body on mainland UK were prisoners of war, or the dead. Invasion is just that, occupation of a country by force. It never happened here.

That's actually not the definition of invasion. Occupation comes after invasion.

But thanks for clarifying that for me. Didn't know citizens of the UK don't consider the blitz an invasion.

 

[tac]

That's actually not the definition of invasion. Occupation comes after invasion.

But thanks for clarifying that for me. Didn't know citizens of the UK don't consider the blitz an invasion.

You have answered your own question then. The German didn't invade. You can't occupy airspace, only boots on the ground make an occupation.



Total burials 4,929
Unknown burials 5 (World War I); 90 (World War II)

 

[tac]

That's actually not the definition of invasion. Occupation comes after invasion.

But thanks for clarifying that for me. Didn't know citizens of the UK don't consider the blitz an invasion.

It was certainly an invasion of their privacy, that's for sure, and the RAF made sure they paid for it in spades.

 

[wp4]

You have answered your own question then. The German didn't invade. You can't occupy airspace, only boots on the ground make an occupation.

View attachment 532628

Uh. What? When did I ever ask about occupation??

Airspace can't be "occupied" but it can be invaded LOL. Hence my first question, and it was an honest one. I wasn't trying to piss in your cheerios.

I'm obviously entirely too unintelligent to keep up with you. Forget I ever asked. Have a nice day.

 

[wp4]

It was certainly an invasion of their privacy, that's for sure, and the RAF made sure they paid for it in spades.

Replying because I didn't see this.

Calling 500lb bombs raining down on your cities an invasion of privacy? That's the most polite thing I've ever heard!

Carry on, I'm done here.

 

[tac]

Hey, lighten up, I wasn't offended, just trying to get the sense of what you asked. I assure you that no cheerios felt pissed in. I don't have any personal knowledge of the Battle of Britain, or the Blitz that came after it, since not only were neither of my parents in England at the time, they had yet to meet by years. But I've never heard of the Blitz as an invasion.

The Luftwaffe incursions into UK airspace were treated just like that - incursions - a temporary presence in a location without an invitation to be there. The only ones who stayed behind were those who crashed. Some of them, most of them, died, others lived. and like my late Uncle Micky (ex-Wehrmacht), became UK citizens.

 

[Capn Jack]

Trying not to be totally out of context and correct me if I'm wrong, but I seem to remember something I read about a Luftwaffe bomber that landed in Ireland during the war, because they had been told it was in German hands.

But then Ireland isn't England and they may have just been looking for an easy way out.

 

[Capn Jack]

If I were a yUKker, I would encourage the Home Office to provide a pool of target holders for the various clubs to promote good sportsmanship.
A sort of "Out-Reach" program.

I vote for this one...

 

[DirectDrive]

I vote for this one...View attachment 532650

That guy must have messed up pretty good to get target holder duty.

 

[Capn Jack]

My neighbor's wife was a cadet, (Collage student" in the chinese army, way back when and I asked her about the picture.
She said as far as she could remember, it was dry fire practice.
I think it almost has to be as there doesn't appear to be any back stop.

 

[solv3nt]

Wow, @tac is making the yUK look pretty good compared to the ocean of blue that I've got here in Hawaii! When I moved, I had to pay a one time fee to register, and it had to be a cashier's check or money order, which isn't the case for DMV payments.... Which accepts cash or personal check, shall not be infringed doesn't mean much....

After that, they take your make, model, serial, social security number and put you in a database. With the most recent legislation this last January, we're now placed on the FBI criminal list when we buy a gun, and have to make that one time fee again now that they raised the fee.

In order to buy a long gun, you have to go pay the fee, give them your ss and request a long gun permit, which is only good for a year. At the same time, you give the state permission to run a medical history check for mental illness. Two weeks later, you're allowed to pick up the permit. Once you pick up the permit, you can buy a long gun, then go down to register it.

To buy a pistol, you have to first take a three day Hunter safety course. After that, once you receive your Hunter card, you have to go buy the gun, then go to the police station and ask permission, same forms from above ate submitted. Two weeks later, you go back to the police station and pick up the permit, then return to the gun store, and got out the for 4473. Afterwards, you return to the police station to register it.

All that said, there's no open carry, concealed carry, and if you actually use the gun on your home to defend yourself, they'll haul you off to jail.

I'm moving to Idaho soon, and I'll be happy to move back to the free country of the US of A!!!

 

[BSG 75]

Self defence is NOT outlawed. But with guns not instantly available you are going to have to use something else. Being ex-military means that I could incapacitate or maim somebody who offered me violence using only a paperclip or drinking straw but you can be certain that I WILL do violence to anybody trying to do the same to me.

Just don't do too much violence in self-defense or you risk being prosecuted for murder in the UK.

Five years in prison for acting in self-defence

...There could be little doubt that Brett Osborn had not planned to kill Halling, or even that he never intended to do so. Halling was unknown to him until he had forced his way into 19 Regarth Avenue. He stabbed him because he feared for his own life and the safety of his friends. Yet, astonishingly, the Crown Prosecution Service decided to prosecute Osborn for murder - a crime that carries a minimum sentence of life imprisonment.

"The law," explains Harry Potter, the barrister who, with Charles Bott, would defend Osborn, "does not require the intention to kill for a prosecution for murder to succeed. All that is required is an intention to cause serious bodily harm. That intention can be fleeting and momentary. But if it is there in any form at all for just a second - that is, if the blow you struck was deliberate rather than accidental - you can be guilty of murder and spend the rest of your life in prison.

"Moreover," Mr Potter continues, "while self-defence is a complete defence to a charge of murder, the Court of Appeal has ruled that if the force you use is not judged to have been reasonable - if a jury, that is, decides it was disproportionate - then you are guilty of murder. A conviction for murder automatically triggers the mandatory life sentence. There are no exceptions."

Five years in prison for acting in self-defence

Pensioner, 78, arrested for murder after 'stabbing burglar to death in his home'

The 78-year-old was held on suspicion of murder after the 38-year-old died of his wounds in hospital in the early hours of Wednesday morning.

Police said the struggle broke out after the pensioner, named locally as Richard Osborn-Brooks, found two men inside his home in South Park, Hither Green, south London shortly after midnight.

One of the burglars, who was armed with a screwdriver, forced the homeowner into his kitchen while his accomplice went upstairs.

Detectives believe a struggle then took place between "one of the males and the homeowner" and the 38-year-old intruder was stabbed in the upper body.

In a statement Scotland Yard said: "At 00:45hrs on Wednesday, 4 April, police were called by a homeowner to reports of a burglary in progress at an address in South Park Crescent, Hither Green SE6, and a man injured.

"The 78-year-old resident found two males inside the address. A struggle ensued between one of the males and the homeowner. The man, aged 37, sustained a stab wound to the upper body."

The home owner suffered bruising to his arms and his injuries are not life threatening.

Police arrested him on suspicion of grievous bodily harm before then arresting him on suspicion of murder.

He was taken to a south London police station where he remains at this time.

Pensioner, 78, arrested for murder after 'stabbing burglar to death in his home'

In the US under similar circumstances there would be an investigation of the incident and it is very unlikely the person who claimed they acted in self-defense who be arrested and charged with murder immediately after the incident. If the investigation revealed the homeowner used deadly force inappropriately they might be charged with manslaughter later, but not murder with a possible life sentence. Many if not most areas of the United States have Castle Doctrine and Stand-Your-Ground laws that provide some immunity from the type of murder charges following a self-defense incident in the UK mentioned above.

 

[tac]

Trying not to be totally out of context and correct me if I'm wrong, but I seem to remember something I read about a Luftwaffe bomber that landed in Ireland during the war, because they had been told it was in German hands.

But then Ireland isn't England and they may have just been looking for an easy way out.

I recommend that you read 'Guests of the State' the true account of what happened to Allied and Axis fliers who inadvertently landed in the Irish Free State during what they called 'The Emergency' years. All were interned, especially Germans, but others were somewhat less interned, like the Allies. One way or another they all seem to have been 'returned' to UK, usually via the non-existent border with Northern Ireland, but the Germans were not so lucky. I was acquainted, second-hand, with the radio operator of the first Luftwaffe aircraft to 'arrive' on a mountainside in SW Ireland - a FW Condor from KG200. Kurt Kyck never went back to Germany, and was a real local character for many years.

 

[tac]

Just don't do too much violence in self-defense or you risk being prosecuted for murder in the UK. In the US under similar circumstances there would be an investigation of the incident and it is very unlikely the person who claimed they acted in self-defense who be arrested and charged with murder immediately after the incident. If the investigation revealed the homeowner used deadly force inappropriately they might be charged with manslaughter later, but not murder with a possible life sentence. Many if not most areas of the United States have Castle Doctrine and Stand-Your-Ground laws that provide some immunity from the type of murder charges following a self-defense incident in the UK mentioned above.

Someone comes by their death by what appears to be an act of deliberate violence - the person apparently responsible gets arrested for for murder, in English law, the deliberate and pre-meditated taking of a life. If the facts prove otherwise, they walk, just like they do in the USA.

And BTW -
The suspected crook fled the scene but collapsed in the street and later died of the stab wound to the upper body.

Mr Osborn-Brooks was then arrested on suspicion of murder and bailed on April 5 pending further enquiries.

He has since been cleared of all charges and will face no further action.

However, it has been reported the OAP is in hiding with his wife fearing reprisals from friends of the burglar he killed.

The PO* that got killed was a career criminal from the so-called 'travelling community; who really ought to have carried right on by instead of breaking into a man's house and getting himself killed by a righteous act of defence.

 

[tac]

'All that said, there's no open carry, concealed carry, and if you actually use the gun on your home to defend yourself, they'll haul you off to jail.'

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Hawaii still part of the United States?

 

[mkwerx]

My neighbor's wife was a cadet, (Collage student" in the chinese army, way back when and I asked her about the picture.
She said as far as she could remember, it was dry fire practice.
I think it almost has to be as there doesn't appear to be any back stop.

Sure there is. That flimsy wooden fence, and the building behind it if its a busy period, there may be fleshy back stops between fence and building. Bonus is the live first aid course to follow, maybe death investigation training, report writing classes, crime scene control procedures, forensic photography, and biohazard cleanup and removal.