Europe and gun ownership...

[tac]

This little map shows the distribution of LEGALLY-held firearm in Western Europe. It should pu to bed, once and for all, the generally-held belief that the yUK is devoid of guns.

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[RVTECH]

I have actually learned quite a bit about firearms ownership abroad from non - U.S. members on other forums - some of which have many who are active owners and shooters and post often.

 

[justcuz]

This little map shows the distribution of LEGALLY-held firearm in Western Europe. It should pu to bed, once and for all, the generally-held belief that the yUK is devoid of guns.

View attachment 532498

Mate, do you have a source and currency for your image of Europe's firearm statistic you presented?

While you are correct America's populace does, through newspeek & social media propaganda, believe the European countries' citizens lack firearm ownership, those firearms the citizens own, on the whole, are strictly limited to sporting rifles & shotguns and no handguns per se.

Unless 'connected' through political, personage, wealth, etc., European citizens handgun ownership is forbidden across the European landscape, especially the Kingdom.

 

[P7M13]

Norway, Sweden, Finland, Austria, Luxembourg, Portugal.
I would have thought higher percentages in Switzerland.
I trust info from you, @tac. Wonder why it looks different from this, Estimated number of civilian guns per capita by country - Wikipedia

 

[Stomper]

It's not that there isn't any LEGAL firearms ownership outside the USA. What's galling (to me) is that you have to go "hat in hand" (read open your wallet DEEP) to whatever "dickhead" is in charge and ask/beg/bribe permission to have one, and then IF granted you're relegated to "uncool" kit.....


Anti-2A states in the USA that do the same exact thing not withstanding, of course.

 

[User 1234]

That graphic shows that there are between 1 firearm per 100 people and 5 firearms per 100 people in the UK, so it does reinforce a perception that the UK is very light on private firearms ownership. Even Spain far outpaces it.

 

[MannyGlocks]

Tac,

When the word 'firearm' isn't specified, I'm left wondering what the breakdown is between shotguns, rifles, pistol ownership is in the U.K. and Europe.

And has been mentioned that while people have access to firearms, how free is that access, as in, can you keep guns and ammo at home or must all remain in the range armory or even, heaven forbid, the local constabulary?

Can you conceal carry a pistol if you're not in Law Enforcement?

Thanks!

 

[Mikej]

 

[Medic!]

I lived in Germany and owned hand guns and even an AR-15.
That was 27 years ago. And it was no big deal.

It got me to wondering how much have things changed? What did tac's map look like in 1991?

What will that map look like in 25 years? What will a similar map of the states look like?

 

[Tony617]

If find it fasincating that the green area in Spain has tiny bit of orange in it. Not sure if it is a boarder crossing with France or what.

 

[Lilhigbee]

A similar map of the USA would be almost entirely blue except for a few backward areas, because we don't register firearms!!

 

[Medic!]

A similar map of the USA would be almost entirely blue except for a few backward areas, because we don't register firearms!!

I'm sad to say that isn't the truth.
There are many places in the U.S. that register certain types, or all guns.


California is not some little backwards place.

 

[tac]

In most countries in Europe, firearms ownership is controlled by one form or other of authority. In the UK, the county Chief Constable - actually his minions in the Firearms and Explosives Licensing Department - have to satisfy themselves and the law, that you have 'good reason' in law, to possess a firearm.

Good reason #1 - target shooting. In yUK that means membership of a gun club.

Good reason #2 - game shooting. In yUK that means having access to game, either by having your own land, or by shooting as a guest on somebody else's land. Game shooting in yUK is called deer stalking, although feral goats and wild pigs are also there. You can also pay for the privilege in Scotland or anywhere else where there is managed game to shoot. Many Americans come over here every year to do just this, although very few of them make such complete dwongs of themselves as an American woman did recently on one of the Scottish Islands, bringing game shooting, and herself into ridicule.

Good reason #3 - pest control. In yUK there is only one predator - the fox. The Romans killed all the bears. Foxes are a genuine menace to sheep farming and game bird-rearing, and need controlling seriously. We are allowed to shoot them 24/7. Pest controllers usually combine their interests with deer-stalking on what is called an 'open license'. They can be professionals or just people who do it to help out the local farmers, like Dr Paddy Hook down in Dorset, who shoots an average of 300 foxes a year in just one county.

Good reason #4 - Humane despatch - usually the area of gun ownership by large animal veterinarians, who are allowed to own a handgun with limited capacity for that purpose.

A general license - one that covers all of these aspects, is rare, but not unheard of.

As for this comment - 'Unless 'connected' through political, personage, wealth, etc.,' I have to say that I find that offensive. And I find THIS statement - 'you have to go "hat in hand" (read open your wallet DEEP) to whatever "dickhead" is in charge and ask/beg/bribe permission to have one, and then IF granted you're relegated to "uncool" kit.....' deeply offensive. To suggest that I have done any of these things to acquire my FAC is totally baseless. Here in yUK this does not happen. Satisfy the 'good reasons' and the wording of the grant is clear - 'the Chief Constable SHALL grant the Firearms Certificate'.

I satisfy the law's requirements for target shooting, so I can target shoot to my heart's content. I would have absolutely no problem getting any other form of gun licensing either, except for the 'humane despatch', since I am not a large animal veterinarian. But I live out in the rurals, I have friends who might invite me to shoot deer, and others who need foxes killing, so getting my FAC altered for those purposes just takes an application, not a bribe. You download the application form off the internet, so 'cap in hand'? Ask/beg/bribe? WT*? C'mon. Don't make snap judgements about how YOU might do things where YOU live, right?

How much does this all cost?

£80 for five years here in yUK. Wealthy? $20 a year?

And yes, by the standards of the US of A, where gun ownership is written into the Constitution, most everywhere on earth has very few guns around.

The last people to invade the UK did it back in 1066, when there were no guns around.

The last people to invade North America were the white settlers, and that war is less than 150 years over. Hence all YOUR guns, and our lack of them.

An BTW, everywhere else in Europe has cartridge-firing centre-fire handguns that still look like they are meant to, except mainland yUK. Ours were taken off us when a guy who legally owned his handguns slaughtered sixteen 4 and 6-year-old kids and their teacher, and we all paid the price.

Please note that I'm going along with all the c**p I'm taking here, like I'm paying bribes to police officers, for the moment. But don't imagine for one minute that I wouldn't say goodbye in an instant if it goes on.

 

[tac]

Tac,

When the word 'firearm' isn't specified, I'm left wondering what the breakdown is between shotguns, rifles, pistol ownership is in the U.K. and Europe.

And has been mentioned that while people have access to firearms, how free is that access, as in, can you keep guns and ammo at home or must all remain in the range armory or even, heaven forbid, the local constabulary?

Can you conceal carry a pistol if you're not in Law Enforcement?

Thanks!

I keep all my guns at home. The law is quite clear - the holder of the firearms Certificate is totally responsible for the security of the firearms in [their] possession. Many gun clubs have a store of firearms and ammunition, funnily enough, just like American gun clubs do. Funny, that, eh?

In yUK shotguns of any kind that shoot up to three shots are held on a shotgun certificate. One certificate = as many shotguns of that kind that you can afford. More than three shots, as used for practical shotgun or wildfowling and it becomes a firearm just like a rifled firearm is classed as a firearm. Handguns on mainland UK [England, Scotland, Wales], are limited to any BP loose-loading handgun and the so-called long-barrelled pistols, although, if you don't mind a LOT of paper hassle you can get a kind of FAC that allows you to own a regular handgun of some historical interest. Problem there is that you can't keep it at home, but at one of the eleven or twelve places where you can store it and shoot it. Having owned literally hundred of guns without them going off and killing somebody, and commanding troops, I find this offensive, so I don't do it.

Northern Ireland, however, is the place where you can have ANY kind of handgun. There are also around 3000 or so CCW issued by the government FOC, for reasons that are not moot here.

Very few countries in Europe allow concealed carry, and the UK is not one of them.

 

[tac]

That graphic shows that there are between 1 firearm per 100 people and 5 firearms per 100 people in the UK, so it does reinforce a perception that the UK is very light on private firearms ownership. Even Spain far outpaces it.

Just to point out that the yUK might be small, but DOES have over 65 million people living there. Also, for the purposes of manufacturing a demographic, most agencies class anything that goes BANG as a firearm. Here in UK there is a clear delineation between firearms [rifled and more than three-shot shotguns] and smoothbore arms with barrels more than 24" long. There are around 19,000 shotguns in my county - Cambridgeshire - and >2000 firearms.

 

[Lilhigbee]

I'm sad to say that isn't the truth.
There are many places in the U.S. that register certain types, or all guns.


California is not some little backwards place.

I didn't say little, just backwards, and yes California is a backwards place as far as rights and American values.
Be that as it may, even so with ~358K registered guns and 37M people it doesn't rank high enough to escape the blue region of the map. Surprisingly Texas and most of the other states would be in the yellow though. I have to presume that is because the statistics include NFA items, which isn't quite an apples-to-apples comparison. Note the website doesn't mention NFA/non-NFA, but counting NFA is the only explanation I know of for having registered guns in every state.
U.S. - number of registered weapons by state 2018 | Statistic

 

[Hop Sing]

tac, or anyone that might know, does a prospective gun owner need to pass any safety/handling/proficiency classes before being able to purchase a firearm in the UK or elsewhere in Europe? Thanks in advance.

 

[Medic!]

Please note that I'm going along with all the c**p I'm taking here, like I'm paying bribes to police officers, for the moment. But don't imagine for one minute that I wouldn't say goodbye in an instant if it goes on.

You better not leave us!

For every person here giving you a hard time. There are ten that love you.
I wish I had that kind of ratio.

 

[MannyGlocks]

tac,

Thank you for the firearms in the U.K. information/education.

I really appreciate it!

Until you posted your firearm info, I too was woefully misinformed about guns in the U.K.

And please, don't bail out. This is a great site.

Some people, depending on the state they live in, are quite angry (and fearful about loss of gun rights) regarding meddlesome, anti-gun politicians. People's anger spills over at times and I'm sure none directly aimed at you. Folks sometimes just vent. I know. I'm sometimes one of them.

Thanks for your efforts. I can see you put a lot in your posts and it's very much appreciated.

Cheers!

 

[Goosebrown]

If find it fasincating that the green area in Spain has tiny bit of orange in it. Not sure if it is a boarder crossing with France or what.

That spot is a separate country. Andorra.

Andorra - Wikipedia