Dreaded Glock Disassembly AD/ND?

[Kruel J]

It's worthy of 20 pages if a few people read some of it and remember to clear the chamber on the gun they plan to disassemble.

You didn't create this thread for that and you know it. The Glock bashing zigged instead of zagged, so a backup agenda was needed.

 

[washagonian]

What about the very real possibility that the one cop was schtooping the other cops wife?

It seems more likely - given the scenario of these two guys alone in a motel room - that they were "schtooping" each other.

Here are some of my thoughts (not definitive, just "usable") regarding AD/ND: AD = no one's at fault - not the shooter or manufacture. ND = someone's at fault of being negligent.

BUT .....

AD's usually turn into ND's upon investigation. If shooter was not negligent because the weapon malfunctioned, then, upon investigation, either the manufacturer or someone else who worked on the gun (shooter, previous owner, gunsmith, etc.) will be found negligent by the legal system (whether true or not).

Like @Knobgoblin said:

In our current society, culpability is paramount.
Sue , baby, sue.

About 6 months ago I was at my club's indoor range. Dude in the far lane torched off 4 rounds of auto-fire from his 1911 before he could pull his finger off the trigger. The last three rounds went into the ceiling as the recoil forced his hand upward. He and I were the only ones on the range. I walked over and we talked about what had just happened. Scared the crap out him (would have scared me too.) Most likely was a sear malfunction. And, very probably, the sear had been replaced or worked on by someone (maybe the shooter) and/or was NOT the originally installed sear. Anyway, this was an AD --- gun malfunctioned and went full auto even with the shooter practicing appropriate safety protocols at the time the weapon was fired. But IF something serious had happened and some type of investigation had occurred, SOMEONE would be found "negligent", that's for sure.

My 2-cents. Take what you like and leave the rest.

 

[titsonritz]

Copy.
When I think about Glocks I consider their big entry into the mainstream to be about 90-91. Obviously, I'm not a Glock fanboy, so I admit I don't know a tremendous bit about them.
What other semiauto handguns prior to Glock required the trigger to be pulled for disassembly?

Ruger Mark series for one, been around since 1949...

 

[titsonritz]

About 6 months ago I was at my club's indoor range. Dude in the far lane torched off 4 rounds of auto-fire from his 1911 before he could pull his finger off the trigger. The last three rounds went into the ceiling as the recoil forced his hand upward. He and I were the only ones on the range. I walked over and we talked about what had just happened. Scared the crap out him (would have scared me too.) Most likely was a sear malfunction. And, very probably, the sear had been replaced or worked on by someone (maybe the shooter) and/or was NOT the originally installed sear. Anyway, this was an AD --- gun malfunctioned and went full auto even with the shooter practicing appropriate safety protocols at the time the weapon was fired. But IF something serious had happened and some type of investigation had occurred, SOMEONE would be found "negligent", that's for sure.

My 2-cents. Take what you like and leave the rest.

I've had that happen to me, which is why there are built in redundancy in the safety rules.

• Always Keep Firearm Pointed in a Safe direction. Never point your gun at anything you do not intend to shoot. ...
• Treat All Guns as Though They are Loaded. ...
• Keep Your Finger Off the Trigger until You are Ready to Shoot. ...
• Always Be Sure of Your Target and What's Beyond It.

Theory being if something mechanically fails and an unintentional round or rounds leave the barrel no person or anything important takes the round(s).

 

[bradsteen]

It seems more likely - given the scenario of these two guys alone in a motel room - that they were "schtooping" each other.

Here are some of my thoughts (not definitive, just "usable") regarding AD/ND: AD = no one's at fault - not the shooter or manufacture. ND = someone's at fault of being negligent.

BUT .....

AD's usually turn into ND's upon investigation. If shooter was not negligent because the weapon malfunctioned, then, upon investigation, either the manufacturer or someone else who worked on the gun (shooter, previous owner, gunsmith, etc.) will be found negligent by the legal system (whether true or not).

Like @Knobgoblin said:


About 6 months ago I was at my club's indoor range. Dude in the far lane torched off 4 rounds of auto-fire from his 1911 before he could pull his finger off the trigger. The last three rounds went into the ceiling as the recoil forced his hand upward. He and I were the only ones on the range. I walked over and we talked about what had just happened. Scared the crap out him (would have scared me too.) Most likely was a sear malfunction. And, very probably, the sear had been replaced or worked on by someone (maybe the shooter) and/or was NOT the originally installed sear. Anyway, this was an AD --- gun malfunctioned and went full auto even with the shooter practicing appropriate safety protocols at the time the weapon was fired. But IF something serious had happened and some type of investigation had occurred, SOMEONE would be found "negligent", that's for sure.

My 2-cents. Take what you like and leave the rest.

On the topic of AD vs ND, I have never witnessed a gun go off by itself. I have witnessed runaway guns on multiple occasions - one being a Glock where the owner modded the trigger just a little too much (terrifying), the other being an AR with a trigger pin that worked loose and began doing 2 round bursts. I have also witnessed numerous NDs due to user error - not clearing the holster of obstructions before reholstering, failure to index, failure to confirm the condition of the weapon, etc. Of the user error category, many tried to claim the gun went off by itself, and all were proven not to be the case. Sure, there are some legitimate instances of guns mechanically failing and discharging a round (i.e. Sig), but I would argue those are far less common than the user inadvertently pressing the trigger.

Some people genuinely aren't cognizant of what all of their fingers are doing, and have difficulty monitoring and controlling their individual movements. This applies to indexing as well as keeping the muzzle pointed in a safe direction, and the latter especially appears to be really hard for some people to grasp - harder in some cases than indexing. I suspect is has something to do with spatial awareness, but whatever the reason, it's a thing we have to deal with.

It takes practice to reinforce good "muscle memory" for safe gun handling, much like it takes practice to learn how to play a scale on a guitar - keep it up and soon you'll be shredding like rockstar, but you don't just pick it up and shred. Any time I see someone not maintaining good trigger or muzzle discipline I do what I can to step in and help them correct the issue - politely, kindly, and calmly. Most of the time that feedback is taken well and they correct the problem.

For new shooters I start with blue guns and make them practice picking up the gun off the table and putting it back down, maintaining good index throughout. I teach them Sul as a default position when holding a gun because it keeps the gun pointed in a safe direction and ensures they can visually confirm their index. And I teach them to ALWAYS verify the condition of the weapon when they pick it up. Little things like that go a long way towards reinforcing safe firearm handling and reduce the risk of "it just went off".

 

[RagnarSignal]

You didn't create this thread for that and you know it. The Glock bashing zigged instead of zagged, so a backup agenda was needed.

Your comment is kind of insulting.
I DID create the thread exactly for the purpose I stated. I used a current news item to put this particular type of disassembly accident in readers' minds. I did that with a purpose in mind.
I'm honest about not liking Glocks. They're ugly, and plastic. But they're also designed well, reliable, and function as intended. So I don't like Glocks, but I'm not a "Glock basher".
I used this same writing technique to Garner attention for gun safety in my other thread with 400+ comments. You should read that discussion, too.

 

[titsonritz]

I used a current news item to put this particular type of disassembly accident in readers' minds. I did that with a purpose in mind.

So where is the correlation, there is no mention of Glocks or anything about disassembly any firearm at all?

I used this same writing technique to Garner attention for gun safety in my other thread with 400+ comments. You should read that discussion, too.

What technique is that, making stuff up and creating click bait threads?

 

[Member 53328]

Your comment is kind of insulting.
I DID create the thread exactly for the purpose I stated. I used a current news item to put this particular type of disassembly accident in readers' minds. I did that with a purpose in mind.
I'm honest about not liking Glocks. They're ugly, and plastic. But they're also designed well, reliable, and function as intended. So I don't like Glocks, but I'm not a "Glock basher".
I used this same writing technique to Garner attention for gun safety in my other thread with 400+ comments. You should read that discussion, too.

Both of which are passive aggressive and focus on striker fired handguns (like a Glock) which you obviously dislike.

Which is fine. We can't all be apart of the cool kid club.

You probably hate RDS and weapon mounted lights on handguns as well and only carry OWB at 4 o'clock.

Click bait and total fabrication.

You know what they say about assumptions. And assuming and making false claims is all you're doing here. No proof, evidence or verification. Just your own biases.

 

[Knobgoblin]

Both of which are passive aggressive and focus on striker fired handguns (like a Glock) which you obviously dislike.

Which is fine. We all can't be apart of the cool kid club.

You probably hate RDS and weapon mounted lights on handguns as well and only carry OWB at 4 o'clock.

FBI cant



Or fbi can??

 

[washagonian]

I teach them Sul as a default position when holding a gun because it keeps the gun pointed in a safe direction and ensures they can visually confirm their index

I learned about "Position SUL" a couple of years ago, by accident. I was just skimming some articles and came across it.

In the 40 plus years I've been shooting, the "Position SUL" concept and technique is one of the MOST influential and enlightening concepts I have come across. It really had an impact on my practice of safe firearm handling.

I am not a trainer or competitor or expert shooter. I'm just an average Joe, shooting as a hobby and for personal protection. Yet, I use Position SUL daily when handling and moving with a firearm, even from my holster to my lockbox at night.

Thanks for mentioning it.

 

[titsonritz]

I learned about "Position SUL" a couple of years ago, by accident. I was just skimming some articles and came across it.

In the 40 plus years I've been shooting, the "Position SUL" concept and technique is one of the MOST influential and enlightening concepts I have come across. It really had an impact on my practice of safe firearm handling.

I am not a trainer or competitor or expert shooter. I'm just an average Joe, shooting as a hobby and for personal protection. Yet, I use Position SUL daily when handling and moving with a firearm, even from my holster to my lockbox at night.

Thanks for mentioning it.

"Position SUL" was created by Max Joseph and Alan Brosnan while training cops in Brazil who had no muzzle discipline and were lasering everything in their environment, including each other and the instructors. It is basically a LCD safety position.

A little history about Max Joseph and Alan Brosnan:
25 Explosive Years of Tactical Energetic Entry Systems
and "Position SUL":
THE MUCH MALIGNED "SUL" POSITION - BY JOHN MARRS

 

[AshWilliams]

"I bet this was a Glock (or clone) disassembly discharge."

This message was brought to you by The Gun Room - Portland, OR

 

[solv3nt]

One pump chump.

*Asking for a friend.....

 

[solv3nt]

Why are we discussing roosters...that is pretty foul...err...fowl....
Andy

I used this same writing technique to Garner attention for gun safety in my other thread with 400+ comments. You should read that discussion, too.

I'm not sure why you're so proud of rooster talk.... But hey, I ain't judging. But to everybody else's point, you come off as Glock bashing.

 

[Certaindeaf]

You just know someone had to smell the front sight.

 

[Member 53328]

So where is the correlation, there is no mention of Glocks or anything about disassembly any firearm at all?


What technique is that, making stuff up and creating click bait threads?

We should introduce this member to that Ranges, berms and backstop member. I bet they would get along great! I haven't seen anything from him in awhile.

 

[solv3nt]

We should introduce this member to that Ranges, berms and backstop member. I bet they would get along great! I haven't seen anything from him in awhile.

RBB? I was going to recommend another notorious troll, I mean member.

 

[Member 53328]

RBB? I was going to recommend another notorious troll, I mean member.

Yea that one. He didn't last long here though.

 

[solv3nt]

Yea that one. He didn't last long here though.

Ha! Wouldn't know, I can't see those posts.

 

[Member 53328]

Ha! Wouldn't know, I can't see those posts.

True. Maybe he put me on ignore as well.