Daughter threatend N Seattle, need CC gun advice

[leadcounsel]

A gun is a very personal decision. I'm glad she's FINALLY getting around to it. A few quick answers.

If she is stronger and smarter/mechanically inclined then a semi-auto is a good choice. Semi autos are more complex and require some hand strength to rack the slide or clear possible jams. If she is weaker or not mechanically capable, I'd steer her toward a revolver.

Caliber. For semi-auto the .380 is below my recommendation but it's still capable. I'd recommend 9x19mm. More choices in guns and ammo. For revolver, a .38 or .357 magnum (the .38 is adequate, comparable to 9x19). The advantage of the .357 is more options in loads and use of both calibers.

Brands. In my 2 decades of gun ownership, I have learned the adage "buy once, cry once" is true. It means don't buy junk guns, holsters, etc. Stick with quality guns that have been in production for over five years. Don't buy new, latest greatest guns. They are often subject to recalls or teething problems. Stick with Glock, Springfield XD, Sig, Smith and Wesson, HK, CZ. There's enough good offerings there to work with.

Do NOT BUY Taurus, Keltec, HiPoint, Lorcin, etc. Don't be tempted by the low price. They are not worth it. I speak from experience.

Where to buy. Shop around. Great deals on forums and will always do better in a private sale. Law requires going thru and FFL. Spend considerable time handling guns at various gun shops. Talk to gun owners. Get advice.

Invest in courses or get gun-guys to teach her. I've taught several friends - men and women - and they all benefitted. She can learn a lot on YT videos too. Safety. Handling. Loading. Aiming. How to shoot. ETC. Tens of hours of YT videos from great instructors free online.

How to carry. Will need a carry permit. Apply this week. Off body carry in the purse is a very poor way to carry. Purses are high theft targets and if stolen she would be disarmed and arming her assailant. Invest in quality ON-body carry. It's very doable for a woman with modern corsetts and such. Dene Adams - Shop All Women's Concealed Carry Corsets

Personal advice to her. Pick better men. Leave the guy and get out of dodge. Move. Go off the radar and disappear from his life. No connections. No hookups. No meetings. No reunions. Leave and disappear.

 

[bsa1917hunter]

Go here;
Norpoint Shooting Range
They have the classes she will need and sound advice. Arlington is a bit of a drive, but you wanted to get out of Seattle anyway, right??
Also;
F•A•S - The Firearms Academy of Seattle, Inc.
A bit further out of your way, but excellent classes at whatever level she needs.

I'd listen to this guy. ^^^^^He and his sig other are some of the best pistol shooters I've seen. Whatever they are doing is working. I was also thinking you guys would be good candidates for helping the OP's daughter out at becoming proficient at using a pistol. Of course, you and I both know that it takes tons and tons of practice, but once the essentials are learned it's all about practice and becoming very familiar with the firearm. I'd also suggest some of our types of matches we shoot, such as bowling pins, where it's a head to head competition. We've both seen good shooters succumb to the stress of that and end up shooting horribly. In a stressful situation, a person would be that much further ahead of the game, if they had different types of training under their belt.

 

[Nick Burkhardt]

Too small or too light of a pistol, even in 380, and she won't like it.

 

[conditor22]

Norpoint sounds like a good option. We will go through these posts and discuss her options.

Thankyou to those who posted.

 

[Tony617]

I highly suggest that when your daughter buys a handgun, she should carry on her body and not do a purse carry at all. Have her carry the pistol all of the time while at home as well to get used to carrying loaded pistol on her.

Toddler reaches into purse and gun goes off, killing mom

 

[benchmark]

Ruger LC9s.

 

[Nick Burkhardt]

 

[AMT]

Not only all of the advice/ideas about a CC, have her keep her phone close. If she sees him breaking any of the paperwork call the police! The more times she calls the worse it is for him.

I hate when women are forced into situations (predicaments?) Like this. Positive thoughts for a safe outcome for her.

 

[Hawaiian]

I agree with 9mm. However, the most important thing is that she find a good gun range in her area and take classes and lessons. She needs to have a knowledge of when she can shot and when she can or should not. Legal implications are very important to have a firm knowledge of. Second, she needs to learn how to shoot and hit what she is shooting at. Too many gun owner just go buy a gun, strap it on and think they are good to go. Big mistake. Remember the first time you hit a golf ball? It took a lot of practice before the ball would go where you wanted it to. Shooting a firearm is no different.

 

[joken]

The man she lived with for years (who's been married 5 times before- that should have thrown up a red flag) threatened her several times. Police reports and a restraining order has been filed but they are only paper.

She asked me what gun to get and I said a 380. I read several places that that was a good CC gun.

She is strongly independent and won't let me buy her one.

My questions are:

1) What is the best CC 380 for the money reliability/accuracy?

2) Names of good FFL in N Seattle

3) Best places to buy a gun in N Seattle that won't take advantage of a woman

4) Would it be cheaper to buy online and have it shipped to an FFL or buy face to face?

5) A good CC instructor in N Seattle

she plans to purse carry.

Is it better to buy out of state then register in WA?

If she is not familiar with guns, have her go to a range and get some instruction. She can also try different guns. I suggest a small revolver with nothing to manipulate except the trigger.

 

[rutilate]

To preface my comments: I teach women-only basic protection and pistol courses with my wife, daughter, and son, all of whom are NRA certified. Since May, we've had 140+ women come through our courses, and we're fully booked through March of 2019. We started these classes because my wife and daughter were tired of being ignored and disrespected in classes and on the range; we wanted to create a place where women could learn without judged or being held to an higher standard than men. We teach in Ravensdale, near Maple Valley, just further out than Kent/Renton.

1) What is the best CC 380 for the money reliability/accuracy?

There has been a ton of hating on here about the .380 caliber. According to a recent FBI study of officer-involved shootings over 30 years, it doesn't matter what caliber you shoot so long as you shoot it well.

The single most-important selection criteria is intended use. If it is concealed carry, then a smaller pistol for the ladies is more appropriate. If it is home defense, then a mid-sized pistol may be a better choice.

Recommending a J-frame revolver is, in my opinion, irresponsible. All the gun shop dudes recommend these "girl-guns" because they're small, fit in a purse, they're small, they're cute, and supposedly they are more reliable. We have a couple, and some of the ladies have brought their own that their husbands have purchased for them. 99% of our ladies HATE THEM. They are snappy and hurt their wrists and palms, especially in .357 and even in .38. They hate the long and heavy trigger pull. I believe that out of 140 women, only two of them have liked the small revolvers (j-frame or LCR), and they grew up with wheel guns. We've had three ladies who went to a gun store the week before our class, were recommended and purchased a j-frame, shot it for the first time at our class, and said they were going to sell in on Monday. If they don't like shooting them, they won't practice with them. If they don't practice, they won't have accurate shot placement. If they don't have accurate shot placement they cannot defend themselves and possibly risk errant bullets out of their control.

It would be better to get her a handgun in a caliber that fits her now and let her grow into a bigger caliber, than get a bigger one that she won't shoot and won't carry/keep near.

We have had extremely good experience in carrying the SIG P238 ourselves, and the ladies LOVE them. The P938 is a 9mm, only a little bigger, and somewhat snappier. Some ladies are OK with this, others not so much. We've been introducing the ladies to the M&P Shield 380EZ. Most all of the ladies absolutely love it. It was designed for people with low grip strength, arthritis, or other injury. It has a much lighter slide spring, lighter trigger, wings on the back to allow racking against a belt or firm surface.

Many people are raving about the SIG P365 as a very good compact choice, mostly because it is a double-stack 9mm with 10 or 12 round magazine. However, in shooting it, I find it very snappy and not nearly as fun to shoot as the others I've just mentioned.

The Ruger LCP is NOT a favorite. The ladies find the slide to be too hard to operate and the slide lock lever too far to the rear to easily manipulate.

If she wants to go a little bigger, the new M&P 2.0 compact in 9mm bridges the gap between ultra compact and mid-size. The ladies have loved this, along with the M&P 9 and Glock 19.

And purse carry is better than no carry. For some body shapes and some outfits, there simply is no other option than purse carry. Having said that, there are a plethora of carry options available. In our classes we present 11 different carry options. One of our instructors walks into the class with 9 pistols on her body, 8 of them are concealed. She's 5'2". She can't bend over, but still!

2) Names of good FFL in N Seattle

Pintos is good. South Sound Guns in Olympia is doing free transfers for local transfers or online purchases.

3) Best places to buy a gun in N Seattle that won't take advantage of a woman

This has been a real challenge. Women are too often treated as second-class citizens in gun stores. Our female instructors have mystery shopped a number of them in Covington, Federal Way, Fife. So far, the ONLY one we can recommend is Max at SportCo in Fife. He was amazing. If you know of others who treat women well, we'd love to know them.

4) Would it be cheaper to buy online and have it shipped to an FFL or buy face to face?

With the exception of South Sound Guns, I can unequivocally say yes, it is cheaper to buy online than locally AND used. Prices at GrabAGun.com are hands-down lower than every other place I've looked (and I've looked extensively). Most of the time, they are cheaper than what people are asking for used. Even when you add in the transfer fee and tax. She should go make a short list of the ones she's interested in, rent them at a range to select one. And then buy it from GrabAGun.

Is it better to buy out of state then register in WA?

Maybe, assuming you say nothing that triggers concern re: a straw purchase and the prices are the same or less than GrabAGun. There is a $25-50 transfer fee that is currently waived at South Sound Guns. The use tax on new guns might be where you can save money.

5) A good CC instructor in N Seattle

We're not in N. Seattle. But we'd be happy to give her some amazing instruction-and a ton of self-confidence on the other side. We have a class coming up in March. However, given her situation, we'd be happy to arrange a private instruction earlier if it keeps her safe.

 

[PNWPrepper]

Didn't read any of the comments cause I'm feeling lazy at 4am. So I hope I don't repeat too much information. 1) I would go with 9mm for stopping power reasons over 380 because there isn't a lot more recoil and you get more power. 2) The M&p shields are great. My wife loves shooting hers and she has an easy enough time with it and shoots it well. She had never shot a handgun before her shield and her first few times out she was ringing a 12" plate at 17-20 yards with good consistency. 3) Try to talk her into a gun without an external safety. New shooters tend to want one or not carry one in the chamber, she needs to do that as well. Because in the middle of the night or any situation when a gun is needed, your first thought when you have decided that you're out of options and it's your life or someone else's is probably going to be to squeeze the trigger. And if there isn't a round in the chamber, nothing happens and you panic and have no idea why, you're dead. If the safety is on and you can't find it in the middle of the night when you have no senses, you're dead. Make it easy. Aim, squeeze, bang. 4) if she is dead set on 380, look at the smith and Wesson M&p EZ 380. I have no experience with it but I just watched mrgunsngear on YouTube and he had nothing but good to say about it. It also has a grip safety so the trigger cant be pulled without actually holding the gun, which I think is nice because you have to hold the gun to shoot it vs a kid somehow pulling the trigger without holding it, or something in her purse wedging itself in the trigger guard and going off in the middle of her her lunch or something. It also has a slight flair in the slide making it easy to pull. 5) last but not least. SHE NEEDS TO TRAIN WITH IT!! When stress and adrenaline take over, you revert to your highest level of training. If she is constantly having solid hits with solid mechanics at 15 yards and in, she should be good to go. Shooting is a skill that diminishes over time, so she needs to practice constantly. Even if it's just dry fire for 30min a week. If she can manage recoil, and keep her sights on target while she pulls the trigger STRAIGHT BACK, she will be good. Bonus) if you get a laser, get a reputable one so she can shoot it and be confident it doesn't lose zero. Also, night sights, you can't shoot if you can't see your sights in the middle of the night. Get them with a laser or a light. I believe streamlight makes a solid laser/light combo. Tlr-7 or Tlr-8 I think. Maybe it's just a laser. Idk. I wish your daughter good luck!

 

[turq]

Lucky gunner blog has some good info.
Guest women who teach are some of the articles printed.
Recent pocket gun and 22lr pistol articles are excellent advise there.
My Berra 22lr with Stingers is reliable.
Experienced shooters might like the Sig 365(12 rnds)

 

[Zoltan]

I helped my mom find something a few years ago. We went to the Barons Den in Eugene. Between what I had and others she rented, she got to try a pretty wide range of guns. She had a lot of trouble racking slides. Her favorite ended up being a P238HD. I'm pretty sure the non-HD version would have been fine as well. The external safety could be an issue though. Training is key to whatever you get.

 

[Geardo]

Didn't read whole thread, so I apoligize if this is redundant, but I strongly advise AGAINST purse carry. It will be slower, not on her 24/7, theft and child risk.

Lots of women CCWing these days with very fashionable clothes, or even yoga pant. Reddit.com/r/ccw has lots of women specific CCW posts, and you can search around on Instagram and YouTube.

 

[rutilate]

A lot of men are adamant about NO PURSE CARRY. But pay no mind to them. This position is a left-over mindset from the time when men assumed women were unable to learn new skills so they recommended "simpler" revolvers.

Unlike men who are never in anything other than a two-piece outfit, women are often times in a dress and have no access to a waist, appendix, small of back holster. They can't wear a belly band or corset holder, they can't wear an ankle holster, they can't wear a shoulder holster. Or even out of a dress, they may not be wearing a belt. They may not have purchased leggings with a specifically reinforced waistband strong enough to support a pistol. And their thighs may be just large enough to impede walking with a pistol in a thigh holster.

Yes, there are risks to a purse carry. Ladies cannot leave it in their shopping cart or around the house, and have to ensure they have good retention. But those are all skills a lady can learn. The ladies are smart. They're certainly capable of modifying their behavior, perhaps even with a little training.

And as to the hard to get to? I'll pit my female instructors in a race anytime against someone wearing a suit. All they have to do is unzip, index along the side of the purse, reach their hand in and shoot. Or pull and shoot. No having to sweep a jacket, grab 1-2 layers of shirts, reach way back to 4-5 o'clock and deep into a retention holster, pull out and up to shoot.

At the end of the day, carrying in a purse is better than not carrying at all.

 

[Geardo]

Unlike men who are never in anything other than a two-piece outfit, women are often times in a dress and have no access to a waist, appendix, small of back holster. They can't wear a belly band or corset holder, they can't wear an ankle holster, they can't wear a shoulder holster. Or even out of a dress, they may not be wearing a belt. They may not have purchased leggings with a specifically reinforced waistband strong enough to support a pistol. And their thighs may be just large enough to impede walking with a pistol in a thigh holster.

I agree it is better than nothing, but still at a big disadvantage. Plenty of pretty girls in all sorts of outfits making on body carry work for them. Yes she may have to slightly change her warddrobe, but so did all of us.

 

[LibertyNews]

Another resource for training - http://www.blazingsword.org/instructors/

Gun choice is very individual, best thing for her to do is go to the range with you and rent 'em all.
Best of luck, hope she stays safe.

 

[bbbass]

Ruger LCR has an excellent trigger for a revolver

Yes, I was checking out revolvers and that trigger I liked. I'd buy one!

I had my wife's Taurus down to 6lbs, very smooth, but I started getting misfires from light strikes so I had to put the 9lb spring in... still better than the 12lb we started with!!!

 

[ilikegunspdx]

The man she lived with for years...?

FYI there is always a huge debate when "what caliber should I carry" is asked. IMO get her a gun she will carry with her often -as in nearly all the time- and one she is comfortable with and can shoot well. If she has it with her and is very confident in it, that is more important than everything else really.

Here is a heavily-parsed portion of Ellifritz's study that may be helpful (numbers in parentheses and bold I added, not part of article):

"(1) …I think the most interesting statistic is the percentage of people who stopped with one shot to the torso or head. There wasn't much variation between calibers. … No matter what gun you are shooting, you can only expect a little more than half of the people you shoot to be immediately incapacitated by your first hit.

...In a certain (fairly high) percentage of shootings, people stop their aggressive actions after being hit with one round regardless of caliber or shot placement. These people are likely NOT physically incapacitated by the bullet. They just don't want to be shot anymore and give up!

…In order to physically force someone to stop their violent actions we need to either hit him in the Central Nervous System (brain or upper spine) or cause enough bleeding that he becomes unconscious. The more powerful rounds look to be better at doing this.

…What I believe that my numbers show is that in the majority of shootings, the person shot merely gives up without being truly incapacitated by the bullet. In such an event, almost any bullet will perform admirably. If you want to be prepared to deal with someone who won't give up so easily, or you want to be able to have good performance even after shooting through an intermediate barrier, I would skip carrying the "mouse gun" .22s, .25s and .32s.

(2)…What matters even more than caliber is shot placement.

…No matter which caliber you use, you have to hit something important in order to stop someone!

Conclusion:

… The results I got from the study lead me to believe that there really isn't that much difference between most defensive handgun rounds and calibers. None is a death ray, but most work adequately...even the lowly .22s. I've stopped worrying about trying to find the "ultimate" bullet. There isn't one. And I've stopped feeling the need to strap on my .45 every time I leave the house out of fear that my 9mm doesn't have enough "stopping power." Folks, carry what you want. Caliber really isn't all that important.

Take a look at the data. I hope it helps you decide what weapon to carry. No matter which gun you choose, pick one that is reliable and train with it until you can get fast accurate hits. Nothing beyond that really matters!"

That last bolded statement exemplifies why I don't do slow fire training at all. When practicing, the more you can imagine yourself in a real world situation and reacting how you would actually react, the more the real world results will mimic that.

Like a pilot who practices all the known emergencies hundreds of times, when it happens for real they just do the same thing as in practice. For handgun use in a real world defensive situations, most will not be able to bench rest or take several relaxed seconds between shots.