Daughter threatend N Seattle, need CC gun advice

[156256Hunter]

Huge misconception, one of the biggest in the firearm world IMO. Revolvers, in general, and small ones, such as J-frame, specifically are much more difficult to shoot competently than a semi-auto pistol due to their long, heavy trigger pull, diminutive size, crappy sights and very uncomfortable recoil. Mechanically and operationally they are more complex than auto-loaders, there simply are NOT a beginner's gun, they are a pro's gun, requiring serious commitment and time to master.

OP, look to a single stack 9mm (do not screw with .380). There are a plethora of options out there, S&W Shield, Glock 43 and Walther PPS M2 would be three I'd start with.

Bottom line, owning a guitar doesn't one a musician any more than owning a gun makes one safe, seek training and practice. Finally, take threats seriously and paper don't mean ****.

True, although for some newbies to firearms who don't watch Die Hard or Point Break, a semi auto may not be as "intuitive". Maybe that's not the right word, but also I guess for me visually easier to learn revolver mechanics and loading unloading, etc. To each their own, whatever they're comfortable with.

 

[156256Hunter]

This ^^^
Very important to think about this ^^^

1) Some women do not like "racking a slide".
.380 means semi-auto and semi-auto means racking a slide.

2) If she is going to purse-carry, then she may be shooting from inside that purse.
A semi-auto needs room for the slide to move back and forth.
Inside that purse the slide could get hung up on something.
If a second shot is needed, it may not be available.

3) For those reasons, I would recommend a revolver with a shielded hammer.
Better performance out of a purse.
No slide racking issues.
Probably in .38 Special

Plus, if you push a revolver muzzle against something it will still fire. Most semi autos go out of battery and will not

 

[conditor22]

Thank you for all your replies. Yes, she has shot before, she is around 40 and very strong for her size. I have bought her a taser and I'm making arrangements for her to go to a range that has "all you can eat" rental handguns. I concur it doesn't matter how good the gun is if she doesn't like it or know how to use it. Unfortunately, I no longer travel well but I will make arrangements for her to get the training she needs. When she was still at home, I was very busy and she had no interest in guns. Let this be a lesson for you with kids still at home!!!!

 

[titsonritz]

True, although for some newbies to firearms who don't watch Die Hard or Point Break, a semi auto may not be as "intuitive". Maybe that's not the right word, but also I guess for me visually easier to learn revolver mechanics and loading unloading, etc. To each their own, whatever they're comfortable with.

People are naturally uncomfortable doing things they have never done, especially knowing it can involve serious injury or death. And as you said, revolvers appear easier on the surface, until the newbie puts one in their hands and tries to do something with it, like hit the target shooting DA or speed-reload. From what I've seen if a women prefers a revolver over a pistol, it is too large and heavy for them to be willing to carry or a sub-caliber not known for stopping.

I've seen a lot of guys buy their new-to-firearms wife, girlfriend, daughter, etc. a small light weight five shot .38 revolver and a lot of women turned off of shooting because of it. It is like telling them they are too weak and stupid to operate an auto-loader so here's your cute little revolver that you can handle and then it hurts the hell of their hand every time they pull the trigger. But as you say, to each their own, whatever they're comfortable with.

Plus, if you push a revolver muzzle against something it will still fire. Most semi autos go out of battery and will not

True, but that is an easy training issue.

 

[titsonritz]

If she is stronger and smarter/mechanically inclined then a semi-auto is a good choice. Semi autos are more complex and require some hand strength to rack the slide or clear possible jams. If she is weaker or not mechanically capable, I'd steer her toward a revolver.

Case in point.

The fact is, most women do have the physical strength to operate a pistol unless some sort of ailment is present. It is more about technique than strength. And if they're not "smart" enough to operate a semi-auto pistol, should they have either?

 

[156256Hunter]

Good points TsonRs. I think in a "firefight" recoil may not be an issue because the mind/body is focused on the threat. But you're right when practicing with something that puts out more recoil than desired, it may be an issue.

And there's always the issue how a newer person to firearms is able to "unload" the semi auto. They'll rack the slide then drop the mag, but it's still loaded. This is a practice issue of course, but does arise. Revolvers are easier to unload and visually verify they're empty. But that stuff doesn't matter in a "firefight" either.

I'd suggested the j frame in part due to personal experience of seeing people shoot SAs for the first time, versus revolvers, and experts like Masaad Ayoob speaking highly of small revolvers. He does acknowledge the revolver v. SA debate will go on and on.

Semi-Autos Vs. Revolvers: Massad Ayoob Sets The Record Straight

Massad Ayoob's Long-Time Favorite Handguns

 

[titsonritz]

Good points TsonRs. I think in a "firefight" recoil may not be an issue because the mind/body is focused on the threat. But you're right when practicing with something that puts out more recoil than desired, it may be an issue.

And there's always the issue how a newer person to firearms is able to "unload" the semi auto. They'll rack the slide then drop the mag, but it's still loaded. This is a practice issue of course, but does arise. Revolvers are easier to unload and visually verify they're empty. But that stuff doesn't matter in a "firefight" either.

I'd suggested the j frame in part due to personal experience of seeing people shoot SAs for the first time, versus revolvers, and experts like Masaad Ayoob speaking highly of small revolvers. He does acknowledge the revolver v. SA debate will go on and on.

Semi-Autos Vs. Revolvers: Massad Ayoob Sets The Record Straight

Massad Ayoob's Long-Time Favorite Handguns

Don't get me wrong, I love S&W J-frame revolvers (wheel guns in general really), but they are a crappy beginner's gun. I also take the gun rag "experts" with a very small grain of salt.

ETA: If I was charged with steering a gal to a wheel gun to pack it would probably a S&W 13 3" heavy barrel w/ a round butt loaded with a good .38 spl.
.357 starts to be too much recoil and L-frames get too big and heavy fast.

 

[156256Hunter]

Don't get me wrong, I love S&W J-frame revolvers (wheel guns in general really), but they are a crappy beginner's gun. I also take the gun rag "experts" with a very small grain of salt.

ETA: If I was charged with steering a gal to a wheel gun to pack it would probably a S&W 13 3" heavy barrel w/ a round butt loaded with a good .38 spl.
.357 starts to be too much recoil and L-frames get too big and heavy fast.

M. Ayoob is the real deal expert, not just a guy who writes

 

[EPS]

Travel north or south to buy the gun .
Like everyone said .
Skip the 380 go for the 9mm.
Or if she has no gun experience .
Might want to look into a revolver.

And find a self defense classes .
Oh yeah and the state of Washington and the government don't care if your life is in danger.
Be prepared to wait 10 days for the gun.

But but there is a way around that .
You are her dad you can give your daughter a gun as a gift .

 

[EPS]

And tell her this is not the time to be INDEPENDT .
TAKE THE GUN AND LEARN HOW TO USE IT.

 

[Lilhigbee]

I presume she doesn't have her CHL?? Go to the sheriff's office and start that today. No class necessary in WA, just go in and do it. If she gets it before she buys a gun, the waiting period evaporates, for now.

 

[EPS]

I presume she doesn't have her CHL?? Go to the sheriff's office and start that today. No class necessary in WA, just go in and do it. If she gets it before she buys a gun, the waiting period evaporates, for now.

Well that depends but yes go get that CPL started.
I got a CPL and I still wait.
I got two CPL NOW .
WA AND UTAH.
MY Wa cpl took 18 days going through the ANACORTES P.D.

 

[EPS]

But I don't know your daughter .
All this is for nothing unless when the time comes if it comes .is she willing to point and shoot to kill .
Because if she can't do that .
Then he will take the gun and it will go bad all the way around.
Frist thing every body says .
Get a gun .
If you're not willing to use the gun to DEFEND yourself.
Then you have a real exspesive rock in your hand.
Ps hope it doesn't come to that .
But just a few months ago the lady stabbed and killed at the Seattle center food court.
Had all the paperwork .
But didn't stop him

 

[EPS]

She can always call 911 .
In the Seattle area .
There should be a cop at her door.
In about 20 or 30 minutes

 

[Lazyfaire]

A lot of men are adamant about NO PURSE CARRY. But pay no mind to them. This position is a left-over mindset from the time when men assumed women were unable to learn new skills so they recommended "simpler" revolvers.

Unlike men who are never in anything other than a two-piece outfit, women are often times in a dress and have no access to a waist, appendix, small of back holster. They can't wear a belly band or corset holder, they can't wear an ankle holster, they can't wear a shoulder holster. Or even out of a dress, they may not be wearing a belt. They may not have purchased leggings with a specifically reinforced waistband strong enough to support a pistol. And their thighs may be just large enough to impede walking with a pistol in a thigh holster.

Yes, there are risks to a purse carry. Ladies cannot leave it in their shopping cart or around the house, and have to ensure they have good retention. But those are all skills a lady can learn. The ladies are smart. They're certainly capable of modifying their behavior, perhaps even with a little training.

And as to the hard to get to? I'll pit my female instructors in a race anytime against someone wearing a suit. All they have to do is unzip, index along the side of the purse, reach their hand in and shoot. Or pull and shoot. No having to sweep a jacket, grab 1-2 layers of shirts, reach way back to 4-5 o'clock and deep into a retention holster, pull out and up to shoot.

At the end of the day, carrying in a purse is better than not carrying at all.

I have a friend who has purchased her first gun, a .380, for carry when she runs long distances. Have told her the .380 has its limitations in stopping power but its purpose for her is to create enough space to run away. When she wants to carry in everyday situations we have discussed on-body and purse carry. I explained that purse carry will require extra effort to always know where her purse is and who might be able to access it. Went out the other day and she says that she is trying to never hang her purse on the back of a chair like she always did before and to be always cognizant of it. We guys don't have that problem.

 

[EPS]

I have a friend who has purchased her first gun, a .380, for carry when she runs long distances. Have told her the .380 has its limitations in stopping power but its purpose for her is to create enough space to run away. When she wants to carry in everyday situations we have discussed on-body and purse carry. I explained that purse carry will require extra effort to always know where her purse is and who might be able to access it. Went out the other day and she says that she is trying to never hang her purse on the back of a chair like she always did before and to be always cognizant of it. We guys don't have that problem.

The PROBLEM with purse carry.
When the bad guy comes up and wants to rob you .
Guess what he is going to take .
THE PURSE .
And now he has your purse and your gun
KEEP THE GUN ON YOU GIVE HIM THE PURSE .
AND HE WILL PROBABLY LEAVE.
AND IF HE DOESN'T LEAVE .

YOU STILL HAVE THE GUN

 

[Lazyfaire]

The PROBLEM with purse carry.
When the bad guy comes up and wants to rob you .
Guess what he is going to take .
THE PURSE .
And now he has your purse and your gun
KEEP THE GUN ON YOU GIVE HIM THE PURSE .
AND HE WILL PROBABLY LEAVE.
AND IF HE DOESN'T LEAVE .

YOU STILL HAVE THE GUN

And I get all of that, but she is just beginning to shoot and I decided that that conversation will occur several more times. Just working on shooting and gun care for now. She just picked up her first (isn't there always more than 1 !) pistol the other day. Next is a carry holster for her and getting her used to it.
I am not one who believes in off-body carrying but have other things for her to learn first.

 

[EPS]

I'm sure it is hard to find a gun that can be conciled for a woman.
I know it is actually .my aunt has been trying different stuff for the last few months.
Different holster and different guns.

Hell it's hard for me I had to buy knew shirts and stuff.
I can't carry Inside the waist band .it bothers me

I always carry out side on the hip or just back of the hip

 

[ilikegunspdx]

...If she gets it before she buys a gun, the waiting period evaporates, for now.

CHL also speeds up the waiting period in Oregon. It usually takes like 20-25 minutes without a CHL but if the CHL is entered the wait is only about 10 min. The FFL has to know what boxes to check/info to enter in the Oregon system though because if they don't do it the right way it has no effect.

 

[BrandonQuixote]

A 5 round revolver may not be enough. I've always felt its super fuddy to assume a woman cant handle a double stack 9mm and gotta go straight to a 442. If shes got small hands, they make a Shield and a Glock 43 with more ammo than a J frame could dream of.
Unless she plans on practicing reloading with speed loaders, steer her towards a mag-fed gun. 38 has stopped a lot of a$$holes, but 9mm is king for a reason.
How it feels in her hand while shes shopping means nothing, TRY to get her to test-drive a few. She might be surprised which one she can shoot better.
Persuade her that off body carry is wildly ineffective compared to a good IWB holster. Purses get snatched, belts don't.
Buy her 500 rounds of ammo and get her to shoot all of it. None of this means anything without significant practice and vetting of the firearm.