Washington Confiscation in Seattle

[Nick Burkhardt]

That's right, the numbers are racist.

 

[American123]

@American123 Nobody needs my 2 cents, but here goes anyway.

Poverty does NOT create crime, in my reasoned opinion. Whatever it is inside someone that creates a dependence on crime, that creates a violent person, that creates someone who feels they have the right to things that are owned by others, is the same thing that causes that person to be in poverty.

Therefore, someone who is in poverty, who is very poor, is NOT necessarily good or bad. But someone who is bad, evil, violent, who is bound to use crime to take from society, is going to be MUCH more likely be impoverished.

This is just my opinion. Crime = poverty, not the other way around.

I don't mind your input at all and welcome your very easy to follow thought process written out as shared. I think where your argument deviates from what the research has shown that I provided earlier is that violent crime is a product of several things, poverty being one of them, but that I also agree with you that being poor doesn't make someone a 'bad person,' but it is the experiences that tend to be associated with poverty that can lead a person to decisions and company kept that lead toward criminal behavior. I think we could agree that crime does/cam lead people into poverty because the short term financial gains that can be accumulated through crime for most of the population end up being highly devastating to their long term financial success when caught / convicted, but then again, we could discuss the cyclical nature between criminal behavior and poverty. Similar to the concept of the chicken or the egg. We can see that the majority of violent crime in this country takes place from those who are least educated and in poverty, since no one is born into being a criminal, but people are born into extreme poverty and into terrible life situations in their early childhood that form their demeanor (nature vs nurture) that there seems to be evidence to support such (see earlier post in this thread linking to lots of studies finding similar) It is because we can very visibly see a pattern of those in poverty taking to criminal behavior more so than those not in poverty that I make the claim that poverty effectively = crime.

 

[American123]

That's right, the numbers are racist.

View attachment 483078

Facts are racist. Everything is racist.

 

[American123]

Ignored....snore.

If only I could so easily ignore the seemingly endless supply of idiots who have congregated into this area of Washington and continued to change this local society for the worse.

 

[ckp160]

I actually just wrote a very short research paper on media violence leading to real violence. Going down the rabbit hole on violence was interesting. There have been several studies on the cause of violence. The only very clear correlation between violence and a single root cause is drug or substance abuse. There are a myriad of reasons an individual can commit a crime. It's not typically one reason. Poverty is a reason, but it's not the only reason. It's usually a combination of things.

As to the black people are impoverished business..... isn't that a major talking point with the left? The economical disparity between blacks and whites? I don't see how it's racist to look at the history of the United States and see how black people (really any minority) for that matter may have a harder time moving up the economic food chain. As a nation we have definitely made strides, but it's hard to overcome things overnight. The playing field IS getting more even, but it's probably not there yet completely. I think in the Northwest it's pretty level. Having spent time in the South I can tell you that things are quite different down there.

 

[CombatMechanic]

I actually just wrote a very short research paper on media violence leading to real violence. Going down the rabbit hole on violence was interesting. There have been several studies on the cause of violence. The only very clear correlation between violence and a single root cause is drug or substance abuse. There are a myriad of reasons an individual can commit a crime. It's not typically one reason. Poverty is a reason, but it's not the only reason. It's usually a combination of things.

As to the black people are impoverished business..... isn't that a major talking point with the left? The economical disparity between blacks and whites? I don't see how it's racist to look at the history of the United States and see how black people (really any minority) for that matter may have a harder time moving up the economic food chain. As a nation we have definitely made strides, but it's hard to overcome things overnight. The playing field IS getting more even, but it's probably not there yet completely. I think in the Northwest it's pretty level. Having spent time in the South I can tell you that things are quite different down there.

If we aren't going farther and looking at the reasons why minority's groups are just beginning to break the poverty of centuries then we aren't actually trying to see the problem for what it is. You gotta take ito account treatment, being slaves, barely having equal rights within the last 100 years, and so on. Ignore all the ways white society has made it near impossible to break out of poverty then there's no reason for most to accept arguments for black crime epidemics.

 

[American123]

I actually just wrote a very short research paper on media violence leading to real violence. Going down the rabbit hole on violence was interesting. There have been several studies on the cause of violence. The only very clear correlation between violence and a single root cause is drug or substance abuse. There are a myriad of reasons an individual can commit a crime. It's not typically one reason. Poverty is a reason, but it's not the only reason. It's usually a combination of things.

As to the black people are impoverished business..... isn't that a major talking point with the left? The economical disparity between blacks and whites? I don't see how it's racist to look at the history of the United States and see how black people (really any minority) for that matter may have a harder time moving up the economic food chain. As a nation we have definitely made strides, but it's hard to overcome things overnight. The playing field IS getting more even, but it's probably not there yet completely. I think in the Northwest it's pretty level. Having spent time in the South I can tell you that things are quite different down there.

The largest financial detriment to any child regardless of race consistently is whether their parents are married or not. The extreme ratio of Black children born from mothers who are not married to fathers is not the fault of anyone but themselves and the parent of their child. The welfare society wedding women to the government for benefits and making the father financially irrelevant/unnecessary is a large contributing factor. If you look at the history of the U.S. the percentage of the population on welfare has only increased. If it were an effective program at reducing poverty and elevating those out of it, the reality we live with today would not be so. A big elephant in the room that is often avoided is the percentage of babies born without parents being married. Looking at the specified race groups, it rather predictably follows the poverty in this country.

 

[ckp160]

A big elephant in the room that is often avoided is the percentage of babies born without parents being married across the races.

That was one of the factors leading to violence. It's startling the number of single parent homes. Here's the thing though.... violent crime is trending downward in the US and has been for quite some time. Watching the MSM would make it seem like it's a damn free-for-all out there on the streets, but that's simply not the case. I'm sure the residents of Chicago would take issue with my statement, but that place is a whole different animal. I don't know how you fix a situation like that.

 

[American123]

That was one of the factors leading to violence. It's startling the number of single parent homes. Here's the thing though.... violent crime is trending downward in the US and has been for quite some time. Watching the MSM would make it seem like it's a damn free-for-all out there on the streets, but that's simply not the case. I'm sure the residents of Chicago would take issue with my statement, but that place is a whole different animal. I don't know how you fix a situation like that.

I'm not disagreeing with you that the total amount of violent crime is trending downward (contrary to what the MSM would like us to believe) but those who are committing it haven't changed. Predominantly those in poverty and the least educated. We don't have a vacuum to conduct experiments on in society, but what we can see when we conjecture trying to eliminate all other factors, the violent crime committed in this country continues to be done by a small percentage of the population, and that small percentage is as I have continued to say, poor and uneducated.

 

[CombatMechanic]

That was one of the factors leading to violence. It's startling the number of single parent homes. Here's the thing though.... violent crime is trending downward in the US and has been for quite some time. Watching the MSM would make it seem like it's a damn free-for-all out there on the streets, but that's simply not the case. I'm sure the residents of Chicago would take issue with my statement, but that place is a whole different animal. I don't know how you fix a situation like that.

A good start to fixing it is in the making. The old guard racist mentality that was for centuries considered acceptable is finally openly being called out and not tolerated any longer. Better education for all, better health care for all, and a less reactionary response to troubles that have their roots in racism from hundreds of years. Times they are a changing, and there will be those that fight it. But they are gonna lose this fight. God made all men, and I don't suffer racists no matter how they dress it up. Thankfully our youth will grow up in a better time.

 

[American123]

A good start to fixing it is in the making. The old guard racist mentality that was for centuries considered acceptable is finally openly being called out and not tolerated any longer. Better education for all, better health care for all, and a less reactionary response to troubles that have their roots in racism from hundreds of years. Times they are a changing, and there will be those that fight it. But they are gonna lose this fight. God made all men, and I don't suffer racists no matter how they dress it up. Thankfully our youth will grow up in a better time.

It's funny how in the past 40 years how much public education has been readily accessible for everyone in this country and how if you really apply yourself in school you can get a decent education that does provide a person with enough rudimentary skills to move forward successfully into this society pursuing higher education, a trade, or a specific job right out of high school and yet despite these great opportunities how many people throw their lives away to drugs and crime when there are people in other countries who would wish for a fraction of the opportunity public school here provides.

 

[ckp160]

The old guard racist mentality that was for centuries considered acceptable is finally openly being called out and not tolerated any longer.

Part of the problem, though, is that now whenever somebody is losing on argument (and no I'm not keeping score on your current disagreement with other members on the board) they toss out the "racist" card and how can you combat that? I don't carry a non-racist league member card. I can't say, "I have lots of black friends," because that's ridiculous too. Racism IS real, but there are certain things that are CLEARLY detrimental to a person, and then there are things that are not. It's also interesting that people of color can't be "racist". They can be prejudice, but that's okay, because you know.... history and all that. Again, we're making strides, but there is still a lot of things to be done for true equality.

 

[CombatMechanic]

Part of the problem, though, is that now whenever somebody is losing on argument (and no I'm not keeping score on your current disagreement with other members on the board) they toss out the "racist" card and how can you combat that? I don't carry a non-racist league member card. I can't say, "I have lots of black friends," because that's ridiculous too. Racism IS real, but there are certain things that are CLEARLY detrimental to a person, and then there are things that are not. It's also interesting that people of color can't be "racist". They can be prejudice, but that's okay, because you know.... history and all that. Again, we're making strides, but there is still a lot of things to be done for true equality.

I honestly don't expect them to combat it. I'm no fool. Many people are perfectly comfortable with their racism, and have no problem parading it under the guise of facts without talking about the history or context. It's not my job to fix them, I got a mixed race family and I am a man of God who truly believes we are all the same in respects to being human. At least in the sense our skin color doesn't make us more or less good/evil. And I'm aware that plenty will dance around using the worst language and feign ignorance when they get called out, but I've known a lot of racist/prejudice people in my time, grew up in it. And it's as clear as day how little it's changed, just the words so they are less offensive to use in public. Someone's tried to tell me thug isn't a racist term to refer to a black man today... history and context Have shown me that isn't true. I will not be fooled.

 

[ckp160]

I honestly don't expect them to combat it.

What I meant was, how am I supposed to make a statement that ISN'T racist in nature, somehow get labeled a "racist" and defend myself? How do we move on if we can't even talk about anything anymore? I'm not sure you're familiar with the Bret Weinstein saga at Evergreen State College, but that's a prime example of it happening. The hard left went BANANAS on that guy, and he is CLEARLY not a racist at all. It's insane.

 

[CombatMechanic]

What I meant was, how am I supposed to make a statement that ISN'T racist in nature, somehow get labeled a "racist" and defend myself? How do we move on if we can't even talk about anything anymore? I'm not sure you're familiar with the Bret Weinstein saga at Evergreen State College, but that's a prime example of it happening. The hard left went BANANAS on that guy, and he is CLEARLY not a racist at all. It's insane.

Can't please everyone, or convince them that you aren't what they think you are. My advice would be to not spend so much time worrying about those people. And spend more time talking with and collaborating with those that do keep an open mind and are ready to talk. It's not checkers, it's chess. It's a long road we all travel. And you gotta choose your battles sometimes. I've been called a racist too, probably won't be the last. Also been called a n***er lover. Those people don't mean anything to me.

 

[ckp160]

I don't worry about it too much. You can't win 'em all, right? I'm pretty centrist in my views so watching it on the hard left and hard right both make me shake my head.

 

[CombatMechanic]

I don't worry about it too much. You can't win 'em all, right? I'm pretty centrist in my views so watching it on the hard left and hard right both make me shake my head.

Yea, I agree. But when has it ever not been that way? Best you can do is call it out on both sides when you see it, and stay centered and open to change. Fighting change is like expecting to swim to the bottom of the ocean because all your friends said you could, and individual knows better.

 

[CHLChris]

it is the experiences that tend to be associated with poverty that can lead a person to decisions and company kept that lead toward criminal behavior.

Since no study can really determine causation on an issue like this, there is no study that would lead me to believe that I am wrong on this. I believe the exact reverse of this statement you wrote.

I think "it is the experiences that tend to be associated with criminal behavior that can lead a person to decisions and company kept that lead toward poverty.

And I come to this conclusion from a spiritual perspective. My belief in God and His revelation through the Bible suggest that poorness is just a state of life for some people and has no direct bearing on their connection to God ("the poor you will always..."). Poor folks can be good people and might even has an easier time coming to a saving knowledge of Jesus ("camel through the eye..."). But separation from God that leads some people to crime and violence messes those people up, leading them into poverty of soul AND bank account ("wages of sin...").

Studies have absolutely no affect on my belief in the area of "social science". Most people who perform societal studies have their own beliefs that are invariably confirmed in the results of their studies.

 

[American123]

Since no study can really determine causation on an issue like this, there is no study that would lead me to believe that I am wrong on this. I believe the exact reverse of this statement you wrote.

I think "it is the experiences that tend to be associated with criminal behavior that can lead a person to decisions and company kept that lead toward poverty.

And I come to this conclusion from a spiritual perspective. My belief in God and His revelation through the Bible suggest that poorness is just a state of life for some people and has no direct bearing on their connection to God ("the poor you will always..."). Poor folks can be good people and might even has an easier time coming to a saving knowledge of Jesus ("camel through the eye..."). But separation from God that leads some people to crime and violence messes those people up, leading them into poverty of soul AND bank account ("wages of sin...").

Studies have absolutely no affect on my belief in the area of "social science". Most people who perform societal studies have their own beliefs that are invariably confirmed in the results of their studies.

I do recall writing that this is similar to the 'chicken and the egg' concept and that criminal behavior very much can lead to poverty, however, criminal behavior does not exist in a vacuum, and the preponderance of evidence of who commits violent crime (the impoverished and the uneducated) exist irrelevant to your beliefs.

 

[ma96782]

I guess some of you have never been involved with a "Psychobubblegumfromhell."

Yes.....they exist. And, they can make your life a hell, when they want to. Consider this.......

You've had a relationship with Ms. X. Ms. X turns out to be a "Psychobubblegumfromhell." You break off the relationship and she is pissed off at you. Think.....child custody battle or divorce or just plain got out of my life. So, she goes to the women's center or police dept. claiming that you have threatened her with bodily harm and that you own some guns. The Police want to "help and save her" from potential harm.

So......they could either go together or singularly and apply to a Judge for a TRO (TRO = Temporary Restraining Order). I guess in some jurisdictions it's call a Protection Order of some kind. Sound familiar? Mind you, that you were not invited to respond during this application process. It is done, "Ex Parte." The Judge can grant (and most of the times) will grant a TRO. Thinking......that it's better to err on the side of safety. Rrrright.

So then, YOU get served and are ordered to surrender your collection of guns and to have no contact with Ms. X. BTW, the Police will collect the guns (based on the gun registration files that they happen to have). And, of course they'll probably go through your home or come back with a search warrant. Search Warrant? Sure......remember.....Ms. X saw your collection. Anyway, a hearing date is set for about a month from now. Meanwhile, you're more or less without Home/Self Defense firearms and of course I hope that you'll be seeking a lawyer (you'll be shelling out some $$$$).

Never mind the "What ifs" that could befall you. Remember, you've been accused and for SAFETY......you've had your firearms removed from you. Guilty until proven innocent. And, you still haven't gone to any trial.

Don't ask me how I know of these things.

Aloha, Mark