Vermont man under threat to be imprisoned for personal range on 30 acres!

[monkeybutler]

Here is some more info. Buncha twisted up felony stuff. I am sure he is a great guy though.

https://www.manchesterjournal.com/n...1ec-ad2f-3b0bfd2824f8.html?wallit_nosession=1

 

[VinnieBoomBah]

Here is some more info. Buncha twisted up felony stuff. I am sure he is a great guy though.

https://www.manchesterjournal.com/n...1ec-ad2f-3b0bfd2824f8.html?wallit_nosession=1

Pfffffff! I can just tell be seeing the mask that them thar folk are a bunch of commie sheeple that hates him for loving guns and his country!


That was sarcasm in case you missed it

 

[eustace_stelio]

And that thing in NY in the sidebar . . .

Serious question: Why is everyone so quick to defend him when we have all (mostly) agreed that we don't have all the info?

Not defending him. Rather playing devil's advocate. There is always 2 sides to every story.

I believe I stated dude is a moron. Easy to paint him as the bad guy when we know nothing about the neighbors that want to shut down his range or the true motivation for doing so.

Is it the noise, the environmental impact or they just found out who their neighbor was and his history of being a d*ck?

If Daniel wasn't a hot headed dill hole would that make what his neighbors are doing worse, better or the same? Would they have gone through the same drastic measures to shut it down?

 

[VinnieBoomBah]

If Daniel wasn't a hot headed dill hole would that make what his neighbors are doing worse, better or the same? Would they have gone through the same drastic measures to shut it down?

I get your point, but I tend to be a mite particular who I attach my name to and if he is the sort of person it's looking like he is I'll take a pass on standing shoulder to shoulder with him

 

[RX-79G]

And that thing in NY in the sidebar . . .

Serious question: Why is everyone so quick to defend him when we have all (mostly) agreed that we don't have all the info?

Because anyone who uses guns is good, and anyone that opposes them doing so is bad.

 

[mhayd93]

I get your point, but I tend to be a mite particular who I attach my name to and if he is the sort of person it's looking like he is I'll take a pass on standing shoulder to shoulder with him

Much like defending the 2A rights of a felon who has done their time, it's not about standing shoulder to shoulder with the person and who they are, but standing shoulder to shoulder with them on their Constitutional rights.

Character assassination—from both sides—should never be a justification to restrict someone's rights. Until someone is tried and convicted, they deserve the enjoyment of all their rights.

I view it as a defense of principle, not a personal defense of this particular individual.

 

[Yarome]

Serious question: Why is everyone so quick to defend him when we have all (mostly) agreed that we don't have all the info?

Speaking for myself... I don't think it's defending "him" so much as the idea that a person can have their property rights attacked like that... simply because your neighbors don't like how you choose to utilize your own property. That's just wrong, no matter who you are.

Some scuttlebutt was that he was going for the whole anarchist "para-military" training motif. Complete with improvised explosives training and such. I don't know if I buy that narrative, but if it's true, then the big hubbub to shut him down is a little more understandable. It sounds more like ninny's making stuff up over a few buddies getting together on a private range.

I wouldn't appreciate having a bunch of radical nutjubs running around in my back yard either, but I would still say any action against it/him should be based on illegal activity enforcement vs rolling over a guys personal property rights... or passing statewide legislation that is going to infringe on every citizens basic 2A rights.

And... I don't buy into the leftist leanings that a persons rights are based on how upstanding of a person "I" think you are. That seems to be a "theme" here. "It's okay if he gets steamrolled because he has a history." I call BS!

 

[Yarome]

Much like defending the 2A rights of a felon who has done their time, it's not about standing shoulder to shoulder with the person and who they are, but standing shoulder to shoulder with them on their Constitutional rights.

Character assassination—from both sides—should never be a justification to restrict someone's rights. Until someone is tried and convicted, they deserve the enjoyment of all their rights.

I view it as a defense of principle, not a personal defense of this particular individual.

He said it better than I did...

 

[Yarome]

(It's always funny when trolls can't handle the heat dished back their way and put you on "ignore". Weak!)

*cough* MB *cough* *cough*

 

[solv3nt]

(It's always funny when trolls can't handle the heat dished back their way and put you on "ignore". Weak!)

*cough* MB *cough* *cough*

What do you have against monkey butts?

 

[Yarome]

Because anyone who uses guns is good, and anyone that opposes them doing so is bad.

I don't think there is any denying that many 2A advocates are kind of in a defensive mindset and tend to give firearm owners the benefit of the doubt... until all the facts are in... but In the current climate of "anyone who owns a gun is a nutjob and fundamentally a bad person".... I think that's par for the course. I don't agree that anyone with a gun is "good", though.

I don't want bad people having guns any more than the next guy.

 

[Yarome]

What do you have against monkey butts?

I was going to say... "They fugly... and they stink... !".... but I really don't want to open myself to explain how I might know that.... so I shall remain silent.

 

[solv3nt]

I was going to say... "They fugly... and they stink... !"....

We're always watching.

 

[Andy54Hawken]

Some scuttlebutt was that he was going for the whole anarchist "para-military" training motif.

Appearances / perceptions matter.

A long while ago when I had recently gotten out of the Army , i was going shooting with a couple of friends...
We were loading up my truck with guns all in hard cases , ammo and the like....

When two patrol cars show up...officers alert and ready...not ready as in jumping out and shooting but...
Ready as in keeping some distance and looking over us and the scene intently.

Turns out I knew one of the officers....
He told me that someone reported that :
"Several Skin-Heads were waving guns around".

Well now...
I did have my GI Issue High and Tight haircut still going...as I was fresh out of the Army...one of my friends there was naturally bald..and the other favored a 1950's style crew cut ....
No waving of guns however...and definitely not skin-heads.

I knew that...the officer knew that ( once he got there )...however someone else and their perception of what was going on...
Painted a different picture.

Luckily for us...all went well and off we went for a day of shooting.

However....
I can imagine how things might have been different.....
One can insert whatever "What If" here....

I often wonder if that is the case with many news stories that I read...
Many times details in the story are lacking...and just how large a role are the reporter's / witness's perceptions and the "suspect's " appearance are playing into their judgement or viewpoint.
Andy

 

[MTpockets]

I am waiting on passing judgement...at least until the scientists are finished reading his skull bumps.



Sorry slow Monday...

 

[Yarome]

Appearances / perceptions matter.

A long while ago when I had recently gotten out of the Army , i was going shooting with a couple of friends...
We were loading up my truck with guns all in hard cases , ammo and the like....

When two patrol cars show up...officers alert and ready...not ready as in jumping out and shooting but...
Ready as in keeping some distance and looking over us and the scene intently.

Turns out I knew one of the officers....
He told me that someone reported that :
"Several Skin-Heads were waving guns around".

Well now...
I did have my GI Issue High and Tight haircut still going...as I was fresh out of the Army...one of my friends there was naturally bald..and the other favored a 1950's style crew cut ....
No waving of guns however...and definitely not skin-heads.

I knew that...the officer knew that ( once he got there )...however someone else and their perception of what was going on...
Painted a different picture.

Luckily for us...all went well and off we went for a day of shooting.

However....
I can imagine how things might have been different.....
One can insert whatever "What If" here....

I often wonder if that is the case with many news stories that I read...
Many times details in the story are lacking...and just how large a role are the reporter's / witness's perceptions and the "suspect's " appearance are playing into their judgement or viewpoint.
Andy

I agree. Can you imagine if your situation had occurred in todays climate? You can bet it would have been immediately picked up by the media... as originally reported.

Regardless of the reality of it or the outcome... "heavily armed neo-nazi group thwarted by law enforcement" would generate too many clicks for them to pass up.

 

[joken]

My Elks Lodge has a private range of 20 acres. There are 5ac lots with homes in the area as well as a few ranches. Some years ago, I was chairman of the range and got a call from a woman who was considering buying a home nearby. She wanted to know about noise, hours of operation, etc. I told her that the best information she could get would be from people that lived around there. Fast forward a few months after she bought the place, the bubbleguming began. Could we put up barriers to reduce the noise, and she even had suggestions on how to do it. We have a small creek through the property and soon the EPA was there because of probable lead contamination. Then they got the River Keepers involved. Fortunately, the guy that maintained the range kept meticulous records, and when all was said we were found to be in compliance. We were also out about $20k in legal fees. Did I mention that these folks moved here from California?

 

[Diamondback]

Much like defending the 2A rights of a felon who has done their time, it's not about standing shoulder to shoulder with the person and who they are, but standing shoulder to shoulder with them on their Constitutional rights.

Character assassination—from both sides—should never be a justification to restrict someone's rights. Until someone is tried and convicted, they deserve the enjoyment of all their rights.

I view it as a defense of principle, not a personal defense of this particular individual.

Indeed. Remember the words of Niemoller...

"First they came for the Communists, and I said nothing because I wasn't a Communist...

...

...and then they came for ME and there was nobody LEFT to speak out for me."

This is precisely WHY the Left shops for odious and unsympathetic types like Alex Jones to use as guinea pigs for new dirty tricks... once the precedent is established against an unsympathetic target, each use against successively less unsympathetic gets easier and easier. (See also how "only for terrorists, drug dealers, etc." legal measures are now being expanded to use against all of us...)

 

[RX-79G]

Speaking for myself... I don't think it's defending "him" so much as the idea that a person can have their property rights attacked like that... simply because your neighbors don't like how you choose to utilize your own property. That's just wrong, no matter who you are.

Your property rights include the ability to enjoy that property. Everyone has rights, including those want to be able to keep living on their property in the manner they are accustomed. And I don't imagine you feel any different, and would also take steps if the sights, smells or sounds that you associate with home took a major turn for the worse.

And before you accuse me of anything, I'm merely pointing out that the passing of judgement against the neighbors was swift and entirely politically motivated. So let's stop acting like only certain kinds of people act on their politics. This thread is all just politics, not righteous indignation for a wronged man.

 

[monkeybutler]

And before you accuse me of anything, I'm merely pointing out that the passing of judgement against the neighbors was swift and entirely politically motivated. So let's stop acting like only certain kinds of people act on their politics. This thread is all just politics, not righteous indignation for a wronged man.

Bleh. That sounds like whiney moralizing.

So… we have a fake thread title - no, it is not a personal gun range. It is an extensive facility. Then there is a video full of other fake stuff. By some lawyer guy. And then it just snowballs. and then people post about how johnny come lately neighbors whine about their years-old range. Which is really similar to what chucklehead come lately did in Vermont. Except it isn't. Remotely. The myth keeps building.

Would somebody please think of the children?