Changing Caliber Regulations for Big Game

[NeoBlackdog]

it's the unethical hunter that gives the rest of us bad press

And that's the crux of it, right there. Yes, you can take an elk with a .223, but as hunters we owe it to the game we're seeking to make quick and clean kills, not a death by a thousand cuts scenario. Use enough gun.

 

[Tlock]

And that's the crux of it, right there. Yes, you can take an elk with a .223, but as hunters we owe it to the game we're seeking to make quick and clean kills, not a death by a thousand cuts scenario. Use enough gun.

Well put. I've lost 2 elk every, both with my bow. Although I was a good shot and both animals lost where within 20 yards I got extremely discouraged and went back to rifle hunting. Loosing a animal hurts and unless you've lost one you don't know the feeling

 

[Nosferatu]

As far as changing the rules, you'd likely have to have be in the pocket of a state legislator to get them to take on the cause. Expect to do EVERYTHING for them. You'll probably need to enlist the help of a lawyer to write up the legislation and stuff.

As far as hunting big game with a .223, I followed that Rokslide thread for a while and will admit to being impressed with the results. It changed my mind with how capable the .223 can be. Will it change my hunting stick? Not at all. My Tikka .30-06 has done it all and will continue to do so. The guys in that thread have decades of experience, handload and pass up 5x as many shots as they take.

 

[Koda]

A thought on this, maybe its not so much the bullet size but all the possible variations available in a caliber. It would be tough to make a caliber legal, but only using 1 bullet or configuration. At some point my guess is the fish and game departments have to decide when a caliber in general is not enough. At least with larger calibers there's still a lot more power behind them, if someone unaware breaks out some varmint tips on an elk hunt.

 

[JRuby]

As I read this it is more about wanting to use an AR 15 and that the majority of AR 15 are in 223. I find this logic is faulty. It should be about the minimum caliber and then choose the tool you will deliver the bullet with. I doubt anyone would say a 308 winchester was not up to the job making an AR10 a choice.

 

[Xaevian]

Someone call NASA, I found where the universe revolves around.

Dude, it's not all about you. Get out your checkbook, and get an out of state license in a state that allows such things.

The level of entitlement in people these days, holy eff.

 

[Nosferatu]

I doubt anyone would say a 308 winchester was not up to the job making an AR10 a choice.

You have to be careful about your OAL with AR10 mags too.

For example, Winchester 175gr M118 won't fit in my Lancer mags, you need the specific M118 compatible Pmags, and it even barely fits in those.

I have a Ruger SFAR and while it is a nice, light rifle for an AR10, I'm still not lugging it around in the woods over my Tikka T3x ultralight, which is still at least a half pound, if not more, lighter and isn't an awkward mofo to hump around with either.

 

[solv3nt]

As I read this it is more about wanting to use an AR 15 and that the majority of AR 15 are in 223. I find this logic is faulty. It should be about the minimum caliber and then choose the tool you will deliver the bullet with. I doubt anyone would say a 308 winchester was not up to the job making an AR10 a choice.

The ar15 has the 6.5 Grendel and 6.8SPC that have a good following with elk within 300 yards.

 

[Idaho44]

.22 + spotlight = poachers choice. More than a few deer have succumbed!

 

[Jason Brown]

My immediate thought is that there are a lot of other hunting and trapping regulations in my state (that are perfectly legal in other states) that I would want them to change before we even talk about caliber restrictions.

 

[TTSX]

I would think the caliber minimum should be increased to .26 from .24 because at least people won't be able to use the .243 Winchester on an elk at 500. Just not enough wallop in my opinion to compensate for errors and I KNOW people will shoot at those things at distances they already have no business engaging at. Elk are not small creatures.

 

[JRuby]

If they made it legal to hunt elk with a 223 it would not change the cartridges I would use. My cartridge spectrum startes with the 7x57 and ends with the 375H&H. If I get a elk tag for 247c this fall I will probably carry my 300H&H with 180g partitions or my 9.3x74r in a Ruger #1 with 260 accu bonds. I don't get very many shots at elk, when I get that shot I want to be able to take it.

 

[whiskeybill]

.22 + spotlight = poachers choice. More than a few deer have succumbed!

And likely quite a few survived. Forty years ago an old friend had bagged a nice Black Bear in British Columbia with his 348 Winchester. He caped it and made a nice rug / robe, and had the skull cleaned up by African beetles. Lo & Behold, we found around a dozen 22 LR bullets in various parts of the cranium and jawbone. His guide had told him the "Natives" up there would try to take just about anything with a 22. Granted, if I were REALLY hungry, and all I had was a 22, I'd give it a sincere try. BUT, since we're talking ethical hunting, I'll use the old 22 LR for rifle season on Turkeys.

 

[Mark W.]

Largly because I want to hunt with the AR platform as I am most familiar with it.

The main stick is I can carry a lighter gun in that frame instead of the weight and bulk of the AR 10 frame. It might not seem like a big deal to those that drive to a spot but for those that hike in it makes a difference carrying lighter gear to include a rifle.

Yes I can go 6.5 Grendel or some similar but I have the reloading components for .223 and a 77gr loading that I shoot very well.

And finally because why not. Those heavier loadings of .223 are doing around 1000ft lbs of energy (you can argue the ethics of that, I think it is more than enough).
And as mentioned above shot placement is what matters most, so why would I not use a rifle that I am most competent with.

As a frame of reference that 1000ftlb compared to a run of the mill 30-30 150gr round the 30-30 has 1900+ftlb. Thats almost twice the energy with a bullet 33% larger both in weight and diameter.

 

[Val1884]

Min for elk should be 7mm. Wanting to lose elk or use that whole 30 rnd mag on a elk is stupid.. weight difference in a 223 platform vs a Tikka light in appropriate caliber is nothing but a couple ounces. I've had to help track plenty of elk that had good shots from 270-300win. Some elk fall over dead an some refuse to die. Saving on weight is a BS excuse.

 

[kmk1012]

Why all you gotta kill them innocent animals? Can't you just shoot them with a camera?

 

[JRuby]

Why all you gotta kill them innocent animals? Can't you just shoot them with a camera?

I don't make a very good vegetarian - it drastically effects my mood and no one needs that.

 

[kmk1012]

I don't make a very good vegetarian - it drastically effects my mood and no one needs that.

That's my issue as well!

 

[solv3nt]

I don't eat what my food eats.

 

[bcp]

Why all you gotta kill them innocent animals? Can't you just shoot them with a camera?

Quit killing animals for meat. Buy it at the grocery store where they make it.

Bruce