Washington Carry while wearing mask

[powersbj]

The requirements for masks in PUBLIC in WA under an emergency declaration is not unconstitutional.

Neither is requiring food workers to cover their hair or wear gloves, or wearing something to keep your junk covered in PUBLIC.

The Oregon situation is a bit different without the legislature.

But to tie it back to the original post it seems common sence still prevails at the sherriff's dept in snoho County.

 

[RedRover]

Sometimes threads drift into related (to some members) areas. The computer mouse has a scroll wheel and if a thread drifts a bit, I keep scrolling. In your post you make it political by dis-ing the White House (adding a political insult, not allowed here) then you name call people Karens (not being excellent to each other). Respectfully, since a Karen is someone who demands to see a manager...isn't that what you are doing???

Congratulations. You're paying attention.

 

[turbo_vanner]

There is no such evidence supporting random people wearing randomly constructed masks made of random materials in public. There's also reason to suspect that masks are actually detrimental to most of the people wearing them because they become full of bacteria and are not washed or changed regularly. Wearing any sort of mask also increases the local concentration of CO2 and causes you to breathe in part of your own waste gas.

There's evidence that when medical staff wear properly constructed and properly worn masks in places like operating rooms, that it prevents bacteria and viruses from getting into the open wounds of their patients. Even medical staff (before the current hysteria of course) generally did not wear masks in hospital or medial office settings for a simple reason - if you have a healthy immune system you do not need a mask to protect you even in the relatively polluted air of a hospital.

you're welcome to your opinion, but you're also talking to a guy who is literally working with multiple NIOSH labs on just these things. initial results are that even home made cloth masks/filters prevent mouth breathers, heavy talkers, etc. from spreading aerosolized droplets. They dont block the virus itself, but they do block the majority of mediums the virus travels on. In addition, the lack of fine filtration or a perfect facial seal on cloth masks prevents any significant build up of CO2 for an average person.

That said, enforcement is apparently up to the discretion of business owners or service providers, and at the end of the day, cloth masks are not great, but it's the best we currently have. Like many things in life, better to have one, even if we end up not needing them.... than not have one, and wish you did.

 

[2thdrglock]

I will respond to the deviated topic of mandated mask wearing in the general public as a 59-year old healthcare provider working in the contaminated trenches everyday. At work when seeing patients for non-aerosol producing procedures I wear an ASTM level 1 or 2 mask all the time. Pre-COVID I wore these masks only during procedures or if the patient was ill with a URI. During aerosol producing procedures, I wear a fit-tested N95 mask (respirator if you want to call it that), and an ASTM level 1 or 2 mask over that to protect the N95 for multiple uses, plus a disposable over-gown over my lab coat and a surgical cap to cover my head, with eye protection of course. I will say that it is a PITA, hot, and hard to breathe, and during longer procedures (like 45-60 min) I have infrequent waves of vertigo/nausea due to lack of CO2 elimination. I take these precautions at work because I am working in a high-risk environment for contracting diseases that are transmitted by aerosol or body fluid droplets (blood, saliva, mucous, etc.).
I am not afraid of getting COVID myself other that being put out of work temporarily again...I am healthy and have a functioning immune system.
In public, unless you are actively COVID positive or sick with a URI that might be COVID, or asymptomatic but working/being around vulnerable individuals (elderly with/without or others with underlying cardio-pulmonary, immune suppressive, or other at risk ailments) it is ridiculous to be mandated to wear a mask. Unless of course you like to get right up in people's faces and spit on them...

 

[techxile]

you're welcome to your opinion, but you're also talking to a guy who is literally working with multiple NIOSH labs on just these things. initial results are that even home made cloth masks/filters prevent mouth breathers, heavy talkers, etc. from spreading aerosolized droplets.

Um, so you have a vested interest in these things. That's interesting. Unless this is just an argument from authority.

They dont block the virus itself, but they do block the majority of mediums the virus travels on. In addition, the lack of fine filtration or a perfect facial seal on cloth masks prevents any significant build up of CO2 for an average person.

I'm not the one who talked about the size of the virus. I'm well aware that viruses travel in large droplets far bigger than the 15nm - 100nm of most virus particles. I'd love to see actual published and peer reviewed evidence, however, that homemade masks used by random, untrained, and mostly ill-informed people prevent anything at all.

You also failed to address the very real concern that people wearing these homebuilt contraptions are actually going to make themselves less, not more, healthy by walking around with dirty rags full of saliva and mucus on their faces. Most "health measures" have some kind of downside so this is why people who actually manufacture medical equipment or medicines do research to make sure that the positives of using the equipment outweigh the negatives. In this case the question would be "for the mask wearer, does the reduction of the already tiny risk of becoming sick by inhaling a particle of Covid-19 outweigh the risk to your own health of wearing the (possibly filthy) mask?" I doubt that it does. I've seen no research done to address any of this.

at the end of the day, cloth masks are not great, but it's the best we currently have.

Produce the evidence that wearing a mask will not make me, and by me I mean everyone (statistically), less rather than more healthy. Otherwise this is analogous to saying "a lucky rabbit's foot is not great for magically protecting you from harm, but it's the best we currently have."

Public mask wearing has been ordered by the politicians for a variety of reasons but only the naive would assume it is due to them being actually concerned about our health. These policies were rushed into place everywhere based on non-existent or false (Chinese government) evidence. Instead of aggressively challenging these things and demanding evidence people simply meekly complied, giving into a propaganda campaign of fear by the media that was picked up by authoritarian politicians. From this the political class has learned all the wrong things. They have learned that people can be intimidated and controlled by fear quite easily and that public panics can be ginned up on the flimsiest evidence. They have learned that people's love of freedom of assembly and freedom of religion doesn't run very deep. This will embolden them and make their next set of crimes far more egregious.

 

[Vendor Hidden]

…unless you are actively COVID positive or sick with a URI that might be COVID, or asymptomatic but working/being around vulnerable individuals… it is ridiculous to be mandated to wear a mask. Unless of course you like to get right up in people's faces and spit on them...

This has been my (uneducated) opinion ever since the beginning. I have yet to see convincing evidence that normal breathing (in my case usually through the nose) is significantly dangerous to otherwise healthy people if I myself am healthy as well, even if I'm asymptomatic.

Personally, I believe this is largely a placebo to 1) calm the anxious and 2) exert control over everyone else.

Edit to add: I've tried wearing a mask, and it gave me headaches within an hour. I also get kind of freaked out whenever my mouth is covered, I can't even sleep if a small corner of the bed sheet covers my mouth. I'm a sick weirdo, I guess.

 

[sobe911]

These kinds of threads, I always ask if anyone actually has been stopped and asked for their CHL...
If you're doing it right, no one knows, and you're the kind of person that stays out of trouble.

 

[turbo_vanner]

Um, so you have a vested interest in these things. That's interesting. Unless this is just an argument from authority.



I'm not the one who talked about the size of the virus. I'm well aware that viruses travel in large droplets far bigger than the 15nm - 100nm of most virus particles. I'd love to see actual published and peer reviewed evidence, however, that homemade masks used by random, untrained, and mostly ill-informed people prevent anything at all.

You also failed to address the very real concern that people wearing these homebuilt contraptions are actually going to make themselves less, not more, healthy by walking around with dirty rags full of saliva and mucus on their faces. Most "health measures" have some kind of downside so this is why people who actually manufacture medical equipment or medicines do research to make sure that the positives of using the equipment outweigh the negatives. In this case the question would be "for the mask wearer, does the reduction of the already tiny risk of becoming sick by inhaling a particle of Covid-19 outweigh the risk to your own health of wearing the (possibly filthy) mask?" I doubt that it does. I've seen no research done to address any of this.



Produce the evidence that wearing a mask will not make me, and by me I mean everyone (statistically), less rather than more healthy. Otherwise this is analogous to saying "a lucky rabbit's foot is not great for magically protecting you from harm, but it's the best we currently have."

Public mask wearing has been ordered by the politicians for a variety of reasons but only the naive would assume it is due to them being actually concerned about our health. These policies were rushed into place everywhere based on non-existent or false (Chinese government) evidence. Instead of aggressively challenging these things and demanding evidence people simply meekly complied, giving into a propaganda campaign of fear by the media that was picked up by authoritarian politicians. From this the political class has learned all the wrong things. They have learned that people can be intimidated and controlled by fear quite easily and that public panics can be ginned up on the flimsiest evidence. They have learned that people's love of freedom of assembly and freedom of religion doesn't run very deep. This will embolden them and make their next set of crimes far more egregious.

I only prototyped and small scale manufactured a component of an open source respirator, I don't have much of a vested interest, other than doing what I can for undersupplied medical professionals. I just have access to some of the results that have been coming in using different filter media. Some of those filters are very common, and can be integrated into hand sewn masks. The facial seal is still not perfect though, with a diy mask.

As far as people wearing masks incorrectly, and/or not washing them, well that's going to happen with any tool, whether its useful or not. If you want to attribute mask ineffectiveness to that, you are more than welcome to, although nobody here is going to argue that a firearm is an ineffective tool to defend yourself with just because some people shoot themselves through negligence.

 

[Xaevian]

Hold up for a few minutes...I need to make some more popcorn...

 

[powersbj]

Sneeze on you phone, mask on/mask off then get back to me.....

 

[Camelfilter]

Thread closed, every reasonable attempt had been made to steer and keep it in topic.