Washington New In January Washington State

[Knobgoblin]

 

[arakboss]

So far I have corresponded with two different FFL,s in WA about a oregon resident purchasing or trading firearms and there answer is the same , firearm has to be transferred to a ffl in Oregon to do the background check, ? I don't get that!

I don't get it either but maybe WA State Patrol won't process background checks for Oregon residents.


On a side note: WA FFLs are exempted from restrictions in HB 1240 for the purpose of selling some "assault weapons" to out of State residents.

(c) The distribution, offer for sale, or sale of an assault weapon to or by a dealer that is properly licensed under federal and state law where the dealer acquires the assault weapon from an individual legally authorized to possess or transfer the assault weapon for the purpose of selling or transferring the assault weapon to a person who does not reside in this state. The purpose of this section is to allow individuals who no longer wish to own an assault weapon to sell their assault weapon and is not intended to allow Washington dealers to purchase assault weapons wholesale for the purpose of selling a stock or inventory of assault weapons online or in person to nonresidents; or

 

[arakboss]

How are Aero and other WA firearm manufactures getting around HB1240?

Here is the list of those exempted from HB1240:


NEW SECTION. Sec. 3. A new section is added to chapter 9.41 RCW to read as follows:
(1) No person in this state may manufacture, import, distribute, sell, or offer for sale any assault weapon, except as authorized in this section.
(2) Subsection (1) of this section does not apply to any of the following:
(a) The manufacture, importation, distribution, offer for sale, or sale of an assault weapon by a licensed firearms manufacturer for the purposes of sale to any branch of the armed forces of the United States or the state of Washington, or to a state or federal law enforcement agency for use by that agency or its employees for law enforcement purposes;
(b) The importation, distribution, offer for sale, or sale of an assault weapon by a dealer that is properly licensed under federal and state law for the purpose of sale to any branch of the armed forces of the United States or the state of Washington, or to a law enforcement agency in this state for use by that agency or its employees for law enforcement purposes;
(c) The distribution, offer for sale, or sale of an assault weapon to or by a dealer that is properly licensed under federal and state law where the dealer acquires the assault weapon from an individual legally authorized to possess or transfer the assault weapon for the purpose of selling or transferring the assault weapon to a person who does not reside in this state. The purpose of this section is to allow individuals who no longer wish to own an assault weapon to sell their assault weapon and is not intended to allow Washington dealers to purchase assault weapons wholesale for the purpose of selling a stock or inventory of assault weapons online or in person to nonresidents; or
(d) The receipt of an assault weapon by a person who, on or after the effective date of this section, acquires possession of the assault weapon by operation of law upon the death of the former owner who was in legal possession of the assault weapon, provided the person in possession of the assault weapon can establish such provenance. Receipt under this subsection (2)(d) is not "distribution" under this chapter. A person who legally receives an assault weapon under this subsection (2)(d) may not sell or transfer the assault weapon to any other person in this state other than to a licensed dealer, to a federally licensed gunsmith for the purpose of service or repair, or to a law enforcement agency for the purpose of permanently relinquishing the assault weapon.
(3) A person who violates this section is guilty of a gross misdemeanor.

 

[monkeybutler]

How are Aero and other WA firearm manufactures getting around HB1240?

Maybe you should figure that out and report back. Aero has a statement on their site.

 

[arakboss]

Maybe you should figure that out and report back. Aero has a statement on their site.

If you are referring to this statement it doesn't say why it doesn't apply to them?

WA HB1240 Doesn't Impact Aero's Ability to Manufacture Parts

The passage of HB1240 won't impact Aero Precision's ability to manufacture & ship parts. We don't think HB1240 is constitutional & will challenge it in court.

www.aeroprecisionusa.com

 

[monkeybutler]

If you are referring to this statement it doesn't say why it doesn't apply to them?

WA HB1240 Doesn't Impact Aero's Ability to Manufacture Parts

The passage of HB1240 won't impact Aero Precision's ability to manufacture & ship parts. We don't think HB1240 is constitutional & will challenge it in court.

www.aeroprecisionusa.com

Well, then, take a good long read of 1240 and see if you can understand why it does not impact manufacturing.

 

[arakboss]

Well, then, take a good long read of 1240 and see if you can understand why it does not impact manufacturing.

I read it and did not see any exemptions that would apply to Aero beyond what is in Section 3.

https://lawfilesext.leg.wa.gov/biennium/2023-24/Htm/Bills/House%20Bills/1240.htm

 

[Knobgoblin]

Both a you go back to bed!

Or go run some stairs, either way....

 

[arakboss]

Both a you go back to bed!

Or go run some stairs, either way....
View attachment 1796757

I am 30 in to 100 push ups for today. knocking out another 10 right now.

 

[monkeybutler]

I read it and did not see any exemptions that would apply to Aero beyond what is in Section 3.

https://lawfilesext.leg.wa.gov/biennium/2023-24/Htm/Bills/House%20Bills/1240.htm

The bill does not ban parts. It would seem to ban aero from selling complete weapons to anyone but LE/mil. You have to look at what is explicitely named vs omitted. The bill does not ban sewing machines either.

 

[Knobgoblin]

I am 30 in to 100 push ups for today. knocking out another 10 right now.

And did you stay at holiday Inn last night?

 

[arakboss]

"The bill does not ban parts. It would seem to ban aero from selling complete weapons to anyone but LE/mil. You have to look at what is explicitely named vs omitted. The bill does not ban sewing machines either."

That's great, so FFLs are good to go selling parts, receivers, etc up there. Good news for those who thought they couldn't sell parts in WA.

 

[monkeybutler]

"The bill does not ban parts. It would seem to ban aero from selling complete weapons to anyone but LE/mil. You have to look at what is explicitely named vs omitted. The bill does not ban sewing machines either."

That's great, so FFLs are good to go selling parts, receivers, etc up there. Good news for those who thought they couldn't sell parts in WA.

There is more to it than that. No one is going to sell you an AR lower receiver in WA. That is the part that really is banned by my read of the bill. Most won't sell parts to WA folks because they can't read or are being cautious.

There are several long threads here where the bill's implications have been beaten to death. Find one of those. Quit looking for snack-sized answers to big, complex questions.

 

[Sporting Systems]

Whew, stepped away and things got busy in here....

Covering lots of ground with this post.

For firearms, Federal Law, trumps states, period. States laws are going to be MORE restrictive than federal, and will never lessen the burden of compliance with federal law. Conflict between them is often difficult to square up and does happen, but its Federal law the drives the bus, the state is just standing there screaming in your ear the whole time, but its the Fed's school bus. That FFL License is issued by the Feds and they are far more diligent about inspections, follow up and revocation. Example, our new SAFE system requires a dealer to LIE on the STATE Firearms Transfer Application. Buy a Shockwave, under Federal law, its an "other". Washington makes us mark it as a "pistol", on the federal form we list "OTHER" as required by federal law. Buy a frame, up until last week, we had to add a barrel length...on a frame with no barrel. We couldnt move forward unless we added a numerical value above zero (we used .0002"). Want to buy an Italian made Beretta? The state system doesn't have Beretta Italy as a listed manufacturer, we have to chose from their incomplete list, and then add Beretta USA as the Importer. The state will NOT add manufacturers at our request (they did just add Glock USA this week at the demand of ATF). Want a Dan Wesson, not there, and so on. The state says it used a list provided by the FBI, and that's that. Basically, go p1ss up a rope if you want something to be correct. Soap box be gone, dang it. So with state laws and out of state buyers, we have to comply with both states requirements, Federal law first, state's laws second.

WSP does run checks on out of state residents. OPS does run checks on WA residents. If we sell a long gun to an Oregon resident, we have to abide by Federal law, good to go and also WA law (safety class, waiting period, background check fee and type restrictions - no semi autos). Then apply any Oregon laws. We can get around the WA requirements ONLY if we send that firearm to an Oregon FFL for delivery. The exception to that is a banned semi auto. A banned semi auto is illegal to import, and illegal to SELL to any non resident...as an FFL we cannot bring a new one into the state, that's importation. How about old stock? Yes, FFLS were given 90 days from implementation (April 25, 2023) to sell any inventory acquired BEFORE January 1, 2023. Any inventory received between Jan 1 and April 25 could NOT be sold to ANYONE, period. (Federal Commerce Clause violation which is currently being litigated under our i-1639 lawsuit, It's in federal court still with our January 9th final response to the state's rebuttal brief, this suit has been in process since November 2018).

Parts - contentious interpretations by WA FFLS. The AG's office refuses to provide any guidance on the issue, even as REQUIRED when the inquiry is issued by a state legislator (Same issue for rimfire rifles and SBRs purchased and submitted prior to to implementation of HB1240). The law says "parts", a collection of parts, it is quite specific in its ambiguity. Some dealers kept selling them, we removed ALL of them. As a plaintiff in 3 lawsuits against the state, making a mockery of the state's "training requirements", and a notable thorn in the side to the anti gunners during legislative sessions, we know we are a big target for the AG's office, and the state agencies as a whole. We had to be super careful. After nearly a year, talking with our legal team, and watching the AG's CIDs (civil Investigative Demands) with other shops and distributors, we have determined the state is not pursing general parts as a Cconsumer Protection Act violation. The serialized lower is another story, and we will not sell those, even though you could argue its for a bolt action AR. The consumer chooses what they build, and the lower is just another part...no action, no barrel, nothing but a serialized frame. Not tempting that Phoenix to fly too close to the sun. We are adding general parts back into our inventory this weekend, with a disclaimer that they are sold for the purpose of maintaining existing products.

Data retention and sharing - WSP is required by federal law (Firearm Owners Protection Act of 1986) to delete all personal data and approvals from THEIR system. They proudly tell you that they are complying with federal law, and they are, kind of. They send all of that approval and firearm data to the Dept of Licensing. Since 1935 the DOL has recorded and maintained a registry of pistol transfers. Since July 1, 2019, all semi auto rifles were added to that registry. As of January 1 2024 ALL firearms are now reported to the DOL for retention, including non resident transfers. Ask any WA LE officer, they can pull that information up in their patrol cars if there is a need for it. Furthermore, if someone was recently DENIED a firearm, that data is shown automatically when the citizen's DL is pulled up. As of August 2023, DOL has a registry of 6.2 million firearm transfers of buyers in WA state. I did a FOIA request to DOL on this earlier this summer. Now, the PROBLEM the state has, the 1986 FOPA precludes the federal government, state government, any subdivision there of (county, city), or any AGENCY therein from maintaining a record of approved firearm transfers. Plain as day in the law, look it up. There are 9 states (ish) that retain some portion of this data. No one has successfully, or really, tried to take these down until now. My group, Washington Civil Rights Association, is raising funds to challenge this directly here in WA. We have some key allies in our corner (some sheriffs and police chiefs) and we have the legal team from Second Amendment Foundation consulting with us on this. Being a board member of Second Amendment Foundation does provide some knowledge as to how to plan these type of lawsuits.

Importation is an interesting part of this debate. I as a dealer cannot import any banned semi auto. A citizen moving from another state cannot import one, a solider or law enforcement officer moving here cannot move their privately owned semi auto rifle or plus 10 round magazine here. However, there are a few firearm distributors here in WA, how are they allowed to receive a truck load of AR-15s to sell out of state? Well, they're not. But they continue to do so, the state isn't really interested in them. The state's sole objective is to eliminate access to WA citizens and crush dealers. Squeeze the dealer out of business, and limit firearm availability. Just look at the impact that proposed HB2118 will have on dealers, it would wipe out almost every FFL as soon as it goes into effect. Nobody can afford to comply with those regulations. It will remove Bi-Mart, Sportsmans, Cabelas too, every home based FFL and really, every independent as well. The data storage required for my store is 2.9 PB, or 2900 Terabytes, that's an enterprise level data center for a 2500 st ft retail operation. That's looking to be at $500,000 cost plus about 400 square feet of space for the server racks and massive utility costs. Firearm storage is another issue, no open displays at all, everything has to be locked in a case, even if its behind the counter. All firearms must be stored in FIRE SAFES during non business hours, that means empty and fill display cases each night and morning, that's about 20 labor hours per day for us. Would take about 40 giant gun safes at about $80,000 AND another 1200-1400 sq ft of space. We have to keep all the original boxes on the shelf too, so we don't replace our existing storage, we have to add it beyond our existing storage. Want more Bender? That's another! All of our ATF records have to be kept in firesafes too. We measure our records by the PALLET, figure 20 years of operations at our size now, that's 4-5 giant safes PER YEAR. So, 20 years...80 safes, $160,000 PLUS another 2400-3000 sq ft of space ONSITE to comply. Want more? Cannot employ anyone under 21, BiMart, Cabelas, Walmart, Fred Meyer, Coastal Farm & Ranch, mom and pop rural hardware stores will have to fire all the young adults, even if they just sell AMMO in the store. Want more, bars are required on all OUTSIDE windows. My $50,000 powder coated, 4500# cage wall has to be moved outside the glass!!! Right where its easy to hook onto and yank the whole store front down! Are Cabelas, Bi Mart and Sportsmans going to put bars up in front of all the glass at their entries? The list goes on, I'm just getting started. Cant happen, think again, this PASSED in California last year, it's law down there starting January 1, it's in court already.

So, if y'all want to help, get involved this legislative session, get everyone involved, especially your LOCAL FFLs. Also, for god's sake, be nice to you FFLs, we are under INTENSE financial assault by these state laws. Dealing with cranky clients send us home dejected and beaten down. Doesn't inspire us to fight much longer. I've been in the day to to day fight here in WA since 2014 and my well is nearly dry. I don't work at the shop January through April, all of my time is donated/spent fighting the legislature for EVERYONE'S 2A rights. To be verbally abused by some one who doesn't understand that law, wants to take it out on me and then gives my business a one star review because I wouldn't break the law for them, its painful sometimes. I gave up alcohol, there isn't enough to dull the sting from these attacks. Give your FFL a break and support them this year, its going to be brutal for all of us.

I hope I covered everything. Going to go split some firewood now, I'm all lathered up from this reply.

 

[Sporting Systems]

So far I have corresponded with two different FFL,s in WA about a oregon resident purchasing or trading firearms and there answer is the same , firearm has to be transferred to a ffl in Oregon to do the background check, ? I don't get that!

They are incorrect, but it'show they are choosing to operate. We run long gun checks on an Oregon residents everyday. Hand gun or "other", has to go to an Oregon FFL.

 

[arakboss]

Most won't sell parts to WA folks because they can't read or are being cautious.


Larsen Outfitters is still selling AR parts in WA, if anybody is in the market for some. They have uppers in the NWFA classifieds and other parts available on their website.

AR15 parts

larsenoutfitters.com

Complete Upper Receivers

Complete upper receivers

larsenoutfitters.com

AR15 complete upper, 16" 556 NATO with 15" MLOK handguard and full top picatinny rail

AR15 complete upper receiver from Larsen Outfitters! This upper comes with a 16" barrel, chambered in 556 NATO (can shoot 223 Rem and 556) with a 1/7 twist rate. Barrel is made from 4150 CMV steel with a mid-length gas system for softer shooting and is coated inside and out in Black Nitride...

www.northwestfirearms.com

 

[Explorer1]

If you have to get permission to exercise a "right" - it isn't a right at all.

View attachment 1790550

View attachment 1790551

April 12, 2021
US Supreme Court: Gun Licensing Fees Are Unconstitutional
So true. But we have corrupt politicians who have attorneys to support?

US Supreme Court: Gun Licensing Fees Are Unconstitutional

While I am not an attorney and cannot give formal legal advice, a 1943 U.S. Supreme Court decision, Murdock v. Pennsylvania, may give Second Amendment–supporters an overwhelming legal weapon with which to destroy every single firearm ownership ...

www.americanthinker.com

Unbelievable, so unconstitutional