bullets, .50 caliber, Minie

[Dirtfarmer]

Is anyone using the 50 caliber minie bullet for Muzzle loader elk hunting? I've seen no reference to them in any internet text. Track of the Wolf sells them, along with the TC Maxi-Ball.


bullets, .50 caliber, Minie, hand cast pure lead, hollow base, per 25

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[Ura-Ki]

Great bullets, but check your States regs, many have a requirement that bullets have a hollow point type nose cavity! Other then that, these are a pretty good projectile if your rifle likes them! @AndyinEverson can answer any and all your muzzleblaster questions, and wouldn't be one bit botherd to do so.
Personally, I use ether the .50 cal Lyman mould for there 405 grain bullets, and carve out the nose to be compliant, I also use the Hornady Great Planes 465 he. Hp buffalo bullets to great effect. I melt out the factory supplied lube and re lube them with my own mix, they work very well and fly strait! Good luck!

 

[Dirtfarmer]

Thanks for your reply. I've been shooting Hornady Great Plains 385 gr with hollow point. Funny, I'm looking for bullets without hollow points for elk hunting. Bullets just need to be all lead for Idaho and with a 1/2 inch diameter bullet to start with I'm looking for increased penetration at the sacrifice of unneeded expansion.

 

[Ura-Ki]

I don' know or understand why the hollow point b.s. I dont want expansion ether, and would prefer smaller calibers for every thing below elk! I get expansion through my pot melt any way, and prefer it that way!

 

[Andy54Hawken]

I have seen them work on deer , black bear and elk...I think that it is a fine choice if your rifle likes 'em.
Speaking only for myself...as a confirmed round ball shooter...folks have for hundreds of years kept themselves fed and defended with round ball and other non fancy projectiles...

Like anything rifle related for hunting :
Find the load your rifle likes...
Practice with it often , in hunting type shooting , not off the bench type shooting...
Find the range at which you are accurate out to and do not try for a risky shot beyond that range...
Andy

 

[Dirtfarmer]

So I tried the Minie Ball 360 grain lead bullet. At 100 yards was extremely accurate at 90 grains Pyrodex RS and still plenty accurate with 100 grains Pyrodex RS. At 110 grains the group opened up to an unacceptable 8 inches. I also learned that shooting without the ramrod in place is detrimental to point of impact.

 

[JeremyK]

Jesus... I'm pretty sure you could take out an elk by THROWING that hunk of lead at it...

 

[Dirtfarmer]

So I've been working up loads for my CVA Optima NW muzzle loader to get ready for the Idaho Spring bear hunt that starts April 15th. For load development I mounted an EEBCO Peeprib and a 4X scope. I've tried the following bullets with Pyrodex RS powder:
Hornady Great Plains 385 gr
Buffalo Maxiball 325 gr
Buffalo Minie Ball 360 gr
TC Maxiball 375 gr
Powerbelt 405 gr
So far the Buffalo Minie Ball is most accurate with 90 - 100 grains powder. The TC MaxiBall was worst accuracy in my gun.
I'm going to try to push the Great Plains bullet with 130-150 grains to see if it will come in with tight enough group at higher velocity. Else I'll be hunting with the Minie Ball with the impressive 1 inch group at 100 yards.

 

[joken]

I shoot the 385 Hornady and its a killer.

 

[Dirtfarmer]

I shoot the 385 Hornady and its a killer.

Joken - What size groups are you getting at 100 yards and with what powder and charge?

 

[joken]

Joken - What size groups are you getting at 100 yards and with what powder and charge?


I shoot Remington 700 and am good with a paper plate sized group. I just haven't ever made the time to try and improve it. I shoot 110gr of FF. Your groups are impressive. I have a miniball mold that I might have to try.

 

[Boboclown]

The Minié was accurate at long distances and pretty devastating during the civil. Soldiers who were hit in the bone with one were pretty much guaranteed to require amputation.

Aside from hunting regulations, I don't see how it would not be good for hunting.

 

[Dirtfarmer]

I'm fairly new to muzzle loading, last season late elk muzzle loader being my first. I was walking into a clear cut when a cow elk stepped out from some brush and walked directly in front of me across the clear cut at 160+ yards. There was no way for me to get any closer undetected. I want to develop a load that can take elk at that range. I want to shoot a paper plate size group at 160 yards with enough power to kill an elk.
I'm not sure that 90 grains of Pyrodex behind a Minie ball will get me where I want to be, and the group opened up to 8 inches with 110 grains of Pyrodex powder.
So I'm going to continue to pursue the 385 gr 50 cal. Great Plains bullet. At 50 yards I shot 3/8" group with 100 grains of powder, 1/4" group with 120 grains of powder, and 1/2" group with 150 grains of Pyrodex. The 150 grain load was brutal to shoot.
So far, at 100 yards I'm getting between 2 1/2" to 4" groups with 90 grains to 130 grains of Pyrodex RS powder. I'll let you know how it goes with 130 grains to 150 grains of powder at 100 yards.

 

[joken]

I'm fairly new to muzzle loading, last season late elk muzzle loader being my first. I was walking into a clear cut when a cow elk stepped out from some brush and walked directly in front of me across the clear cut at 160+ yards. There was no way for me to get any closer undetected. I want to develop a load that can take elk at that range. I want to shoot a paper plate size group at 160 yards with enough power to kill an elk.
I'm not sure that 90 grains of Pyrodex behind a Minie ball will get me where I want to be, and the group opened up to 8 inches with 110 grains of Pyrodex powder.
So I'm going to continue to pursue the 385 gr 50 cal. Great Plains bullet. At 50 yards I shot 3/8" group with 100 grains of powder, 1/4" group with 120 grains of powder, and 1/2" group with 150 grains of Pyrodex. The 150 grain load was brutal to shoot.
So far, at 100 yards I'm getting between 2 1/2" to 4" groups with 90 grains to 130 grains of Pyrodex RS powder. I'll let you know how it goes with 130 grains to 150 grains of powder at 100 yards.[/QUO

What rifle are you using?

 

[Dirtfarmer]

I have a CVA Optima NW 50 caliber stainless steel w/ camo stock.

 

[Dirtfarmer]

Today I shot my CVA Optima NW 50 cal with 4X scope at 100 yards with Hornady Great Plains 385 grain lead bullet with Pyrodex RS powder at 130 gr, 140 gr and 150 gr. I got best accuracy of 2-shot group of 1 1/4" with 140 grains of powder. At 150 grains the recoil was brutal and I'm unsure about the 2nd 150 grain shot being 8 1/2 " high as I think it may have either moved the scope in the mounting or ruined the scope, not sure which. Anyway, I'm going to remove the scope from the EABCO PeepRib and replace it with the Peep sight. Great feature by the way to be able to switch back and forth, scope to peep sight.
Now I can sight in the peep sight for the 385 gr Hornady Great Plains bullet with Pyrodex RS 140 grain powder load. I'll be sighting in for 3 inches high at 100 yards. Then I'm going to be moving back at 130 yards and 160 yards to determine POI shift and required "hold-over".
Back to the Minie ball, it was extremely accurate at 100 yards with 90 grains powder but I'm looking for more "more power" to extend my elk hunting shooting range and flatten the trajectory.

 

[KKG]

Just for "Grins" you might want to try some regular Black Powder. I've seen a couple of Rifles that Simply didn't like the "modern" stuff. I've also seen some that didn't like the "Pellets" but shot much better with the Bulk Pyrodex.

 

[tac]

I'm fairly new to muzzle loading, last season late elk muzzle loader being my first. I was walking into a clear cut when a cow elk stepped out from some brush and walked directly in front of me across the clear cut at 160+ yards. There was no way for me to get any closer undetected. I want to develop a load that can take elk at that range. I want to shoot a paper plate size group at 160 yards with enough power to kill an elk.
I'm not sure that 90 grains of Pyrodex behind a Minie ball will get me where I want to be, and the group opened up to 8 inches with 110 grains of Pyrodex powder.
So I'm going to continue to pursue the 385 gr 50 cal. Great Plains bullet. At 50 yards I shot 3/8" group with 100 grains of powder, 1/4" group with 120 grains of powder, and 1/2" group with 150 grains of Pyrodex. The 150 grain load was brutal to shoot.
So far, at 100 yards I'm getting between 2 1/2" to 4" groups with 90 grains to 130 grains of Pyrodex RS powder. I'll let you know how it goes with 130 grains to 150 grains of powder at 100 yards.

Unless you are built like Mr P Bunyan, I'm amazed that you could stand up after shooting 130gr load of Pyrodex - the equivalent of over 150gr of BP of the same grade, let alone 150gr - the equivalent of almost 170gr of BP of the same grade.

That opening-up of your group with the larger load is telling you something, or rather, it should be. Most people I know of in the USA shoot 90gr or less, and still get results, but it is my opinion, and therefore worthless, that shooting live game at 160 yards with a muzzleloading firearm that has a trajectory like a rainbow is unsporting in the extreme.

Please feel free to push that ignore button on me if you care to.

tac

 

[Dirtfarmer]

Unless you are built like Mr P Bunyan, I'm amazed that you could stand up after shooting 130gr load of Pyrodex - the equivalent of over 150gr of BP of the same grade, let alone 150gr - the equivalent of almost 170gr of BP of the same grade.

That opening-up of your group with the larger load is telling you something, or rather, it should be. Most people I know of in the USA shoot 90gr or less, and still get results, but it is my opinion, and therefore worthless, that shooting live game at 160 yards with a muzzleloading firearm that has a trajectory like a rainbow is unsporting in the extreme.

Please feel free to push that ignore button on me if you care to.

tac

Tac - I'll not ignore you as I enjoy a good healthy discussion.
I'm not Paul Bunyan but I stand 6 feet 2 inches tall and weigh 225 pounds, and have shot as many as 20 muzzle loader shots in a single range session.
My goal in life as a hunter is to make the most humane shot possible while putting meat in my family's freezer. Most of my big game harvested in the last 60 years has been shot with center fire rifle or pistol at 50 to 150 yards. My longest ever elk shot was ranged at 326 yards standing broadside.
I understand the primitive nature of muzzle loader hunting and in North Idaho we have perhaps some of the most restrictive muzzle loading rules; i.e. exposed to elements percussion or musket cap/no 209 primers, lead bullet/no sabots, loose powder/no pellets, open sights/no scope, etc...
I would like to engage an elk within 100 yards with my ML. However, last year I hunted 14 straight days during regular rifle elk season and every day of muzzle loader elk season and only had one opportunity to shoot an elk. It was a cow elk grazing across a clear cut I was standing in with no cover between her and I at 167 yards. As a result, my freezer does not contain any elk. I've harvested 6 elk in the last 7 years.
In the future, if I have the opportunity to shoot an elk, standing broadside at a rangefinder measured 160+ yards, I want to be able to make a humane clean shot with my muzzle loader. Of course I hope that all my shots will be 100 yards and under, but as an Eagle Scout I want to always "be prepared" for those long shot opportunities.
But first I had to develop the load I wanted to devote so much time to. Again, I did my load development by shooting 5 different bullets through powder charges of 90 to 150 grains in 10 grain increments. I've almost finished my 2nd bottle of Pyrodex RS powder and have shot over 100 shots with my muzzle loader.
Furthermore, I am willing to take the physically punishing 140 grain shot to reduce/flatten the muzzle loader "rainbow trajectory" and I will take many more punishing shots to completely understand the trajectory from 100 yards to 160 yards. I have a farm with a shooting range including shooting bench and can shoot everyday to fine tune my muzzle loading shooting skills.

 

[Dirtfarmer]

Having landed on my ML hunting load of Hornady Great Plains 385 grain conical bullet and 140 grains of Pyrodex RSD powder I decided to crunch some ballistics numbers to see if it was all worth not stopping at a 90 grain load.
Using a "Muzzle Velocity vs. Grains (volume) of Powder per grain of Bullet" graph I calculated the approximate velocity ranges of 90 grains Pyrodex versus 140 grains Pyrodex using the Hdy Great Plains 385 grain bullet:
90/385 = 0.234 which on the graph is min. 1350 fps, max. 1530 fps
140/385 = 0.364 which on the graph is min. 1600 fps, max. 1750 fps

I accept the general rule of needing a minimum of 1,000 ft/lb of Energy to kill an elk.

Using Handloads.com ballistics calculator and Hdy GP bullet ballistic coefficient of 0.148 and 3 inches high at 100 yards POI with minimum velocity:
The 90 grain load has muzzle energy of 1558 and drops below 1,000 Energy at 100 yards and has about 5 inch trajectory ( -0.5"to +4.7"). Maximum range then is 90 yards.


The 140 grain load has muzzle energy of 2189 and drops below 1,000 Energy at 160 yards and has about 7.5 inch trajectory ( -3.5"to +4.0"). Maximum range then is 150 yards.

The punishment of the heavy load and flattened trajectory is worth it to me for the "payback".