Beware of White Supremacist Gun Forums

[el gringo loco]

First, I would like to say that I value the First Amendment and respect everyone's right to have their own views and beliefs, no matter how vigorously I may disagree with them. That said, I believe that certain opinions, if expressed on this site, go counter to the mission of this forum. As a gun-owner, there are certain groups of people that I share a pro Second Amendment viewpoint with that, quite frankly, I wish did not hold the same opinion on this particular issue that I do because I do not want to EVER be counted in the same group.

Recently, on another thread, a member linked to an article on the Stormfront.org website. I believe that this was the result of a google search that led directly to a specific discussion thread and the member did not realize what site he was on and did not have the actual intent to spread these beliefs. I, myself, have conducted google searches on a variety of firearms related topics and have noticed that this particular website pops up way to often in the results. I would just warn folks that by visiting that site and increasing the readership, you are (unwittingly) advancing the principles set forth by an organization that denies the holocaust and believes that anyone who is non-white and non-christian is sub-human. When anti-gun folks try to paint pro-gun folks as nut jobs, they like to show how these neo-nazi white supremacist sacks of excrement are associated with the pro second amendment cause.

For those who don't know, Stormfront is an evil organization. They are the Sinn Fein to the KKK's IRA--the more respectful and subtler political arm and front organization of a terrorist movement. Here is the WIKI entry on the group: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stormfront_(website)

Please don't help those turds.

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[aslinged]

Good post dude, very good.

 

[Trlsmn]

I've stumbled onto stormfront while doing gun searches in the past so I must agree there is some serious ignorant redneck hatred there. As for reading there advancing the principles they believe in I would have to disagree, it certainly did nothing to indoctrinate me and spread their cause quite the opposite it stuck out in my mind as a forum full of ignorant people.

 

[jerz_subbie]

Great post, thanks for giving everyone a heads up. I share your views when it comes to the 1st amendment, 2nd amendment, and intolerance of their ignorance!

 

[Joe Link]

Agreed!

 

[4Freedom]

Coming from my background, I know one reason I am a gun-owner is because a bunch of white supremacists with guns wiped out my ancestors. These people are the enemy to all our freedoms, as they feel only a small number of people deserve to be free..

All people in my grandmother's village in Ukraine were exterminated, the people had to dig their own graves and then had to walk into the graves and were executed one by one. Women would have babies in their arms and they would shoot the woman and baby and bury them, sometimes alive and wounded.

These people are promoting this agenda and my ancestors never had 2nd Amendement rights and told they were not allowed to have guns. Obviously, with guns, it would have been much harder to exterminate my ancestors.

Anyhow, we must fight against White supremacists, as they are disgrace to gun owners and our freedoms.

 

[el gringo loco]

I've stumbled onto stormfront while doing gun searches in the past so I must agree there is some serious ignorant redneck hatred there. As for reading there advancing the principles they believe in I would have to disagree, it certainly did nothing to indoctrinate me and spread their cause quite the opposite it stuck out in my mind as a forum full of ignorant people.

I have to respectfully disagree. By clicking on the link from the results of your google search, you are increasing the ranking of that website--making it seem more relevant to the topic in the eyes of the google algorithm. Potentially, this moves the site further up the "hit list" and more likely to return on the first page of a search for a gun topic. This means that, in google's eyes, guns and white supremacy are linked. Searches for gun topics will begin to link to more and more of these sites. Our cause becomes intertwined with their cause.

Now, the opinions on the Stormfront site may not sway someone as unimpressionable as yourself. However, there are more impressionable and younger gun enthusiasts that may be swayed. Remember, Stormfront has tried to become an online resource for a variety of communities and topics, many not related to white supremacy, in order to gradually expose folks to their beliefs. Even if their firearm information is correct, there are other resources where I can (a) obtain the same information, (b) not support an organization I despise and (c) not link my (worthy) cause to their (evil) cause to the casual internet surfer.

 

[TAT2D]

As for reading there advancing the principles they believe in I would have to disagree...

Were there banner ads on the pages you saw? Then someone somewhere kicked in a few cents to the org, and took note of the 'number of eyeballs' they captured.

MrB

 

[MarkSBG]

Stormfront promotes the sort of nitwitery that makes me laugh, cry, and grit my teeth at the same time.

 

[clearconscience]

Great post!!!

I have to tell you I really hate, I mean hate with a passion racist people.
I watch the history channel and watch gangland with the white supremists and my blood boils. To hear them talk hurts my brain.

This topic makes me angry.
And maybe some of you know, but Oregon used to have the highest population of KKK members in the United States. Ever hear of White City?


I hate people because their stupid/ignorant....Color, nationality, origin has nothing to do with it. I'm white, but my ancestors did come from America.
When they talk about people getting the heck out of "their" country, I'm like you don't look Indian?

 

[el gringo loco]

Great post!!!

I have to tell you I really hate, I mean hate with a passion racist people.
I watch the history channel and watch gangland with the white supremists and my blood boils. To hear them talk hurts my brain.

This topic makes me angry.
And maybe some of you know, but Oregon used to have the highest population of KKK members in the United States. Ever hear of White City?


I hate people because their stupid/ignorant....Color, nationality, origin has nothing to do with it. I'm white, but my ancestors did come from America.
When they talk about people getting the heck out of "their" country, I'm like you don't look Indian?

Despite the obvious irony in the fact that you HATE hate groups, I appreciate the sentiment.

And yes, I am aware of Oregon's somewhat stunted past when it comes to race relations.

Funny though, I don't ever get angry about this topic. I just feel sick to my stomach and sad.

 

[clearconscience]

Irony is thick, but I don't hate their hate. I hate their ignorance.

You think your superior because your white?
That's what hitler thought. Until Jesse Owens came to town.

And of course American forces came marching into germany

 

[Trlsmn]

I honestly believe that all ethnicities are racist/bigoted to a degree and that it's not the exclusive domain of Whitey!

 

[Redcap]

I honestly believe that all ethnicities are racist/bigoted to a degree and that it's not the exclusive domain of Whitey!

That is where I'm at with it.

 

[Chee-to]

I honestly believe that all ethnicities are racist/bigoted to a degree and that it's not the exclusive domain of Whitey!

+2

 

[el gringo loco]

I honestly believe that all ethnicities are racist/bigoted to a degree and that it's not the exclusive domain of Whitey!

You're right. One needs not look any further than the tribal divisions in Africa or the Ethnic strife in the middle east. All kinds of people give in to xenophobia. However, in the first world, Whitey is just about the only group that has organizations that have developed with the sole purpose of advancing one group of people as the so-called pure and master race at the expense of all others. Few other ethnicities have groups that view other races as sub-human and seek to "cleanse" the earth of all others.

Most bigotry is of the country club variety--choosing not to associate with others of a group or excluding those of a certain group. All people have preconceptions and misconceptions about others. Some of the beliefs that people have about other groups of people may even be true to some extent. It is human nature to seek out those that are like us and not associate with those that are different. I get that. I personally like to learn from other cultures, but I do not necessarily have a desire to adopt their customs or practices. Some wish to ignore other cultures or avoid them entirely. I prefer my own culture, but I can appreciate others for their differences and believe that each has an intrinsic value and none are superior to others (unless we are talking about food--everyone knows mexican food and thai food are better than anything else ever cooked anywhere else on the planet). I understand that people will always see what they want in other groups of people and have opinions, right and wrong, about who those people are. What I don't like is a lack of tolerance. You don't have to like how other people are. But, you need to accept that they are who they are and that they have the same right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness as you do.

Stormfront and its ilk are several steps beyond casual bigotry or a desire to remain insular within one's own culture. They advocate a violent revolution in which all people not of their group would be either killed or driven out of our country. They believe that they are superior to everyone else and that the lives of others not in their group have no value.

I know that many white people get a little defensive when the issue of race is brought up and point to other groups that are bigoted. I don't believe that this is because they necessarily share those beliefs, but because they see the similarities between themselves and those in the hate group being discussed and know that it is human nature to group the two together. They know that no matter how they behave or treat others, some person, some where, is going to look at the whole group as "white people." As a result, those folks who are not bigoted, wish to point out that every other group/race has its messed up outliers who give the whole group a bad name, too. I just go back to a lesson my mother taught me: "The fact that other people are doing it doesn't make it right." I don't want non-gun-owners to look at these websites and think that they represent the average gun-owner any more than the skinheads that own a pickup truck represent the average truck owner.

 

[unionguy]

El Gringo Loco...thanks for flagging for us all here. You're right...many organizations track their "google rank" and "hits rank". In fact, in the non-profit sector, these numbers are used all the time to say how "effective" a given website is. By not going there, we all keep their numbers low until maybe they just go away. So, just visiting their site does 'help their cause'...at least indirectly. So, by spreading your information, we all know to avoid them straight away.

 

[Trlsmn]

You're right. One needs not look any further than the tribal divisions in Africa or the Ethnic strife in the middle east. All kinds of people give in to xenophobia. However, in the first world, Whitey is just about the only group that has organizations that have developed with the sole purpose of advancing one group of people as the so-called pure and master race at the expense of all others. Few other ethnicities have groups that view other races as sub-human and seek to "cleanse" the earth of all others.

Most bigotry is of the country club variety--choosing not to associate with others of a group or excluding those of a certain group. All people have preconceptions and misconceptions about others. Some of the beliefs that people have about other groups of people may even be true to some extent. It is human nature to seek out those that are like us and not associate with those that are different. I get that. I personally like to learn from other cultures, but I do not necessarily have a desire to adopt their customs or practices. Some wish to ignore other cultures or avoid them entirely. I prefer my own culture, but I can appreciate others for their differences and believe that each has an intrinsic value and none are superior to others (unless we are talking about food--everyone knows mexican food and thai food are better than anything else ever cooked anywhere else on the planet). I understand that people will always see what they want in other groups of people and have opinions, right and wrong, about who those people are. What I don't like is a lack of tolerance. You don't have to like how other people are. But, you need to accept that they are who they are and that they have the same right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness as you do.

Stormfront and its ilk are several steps beyond casual bigotry or a desire to remain insular within one's own culture. They advocate a violent revolution in which all people not of their group would be either killed or driven out of our country. They believe that they are superior to everyone else and that the lives of others not in their group have no value.

I know that many white people get a little defensive when the issue of race is brought up and point to other groups that are bigoted. I don't believe that this is because they necessarily share those beliefs, but because they see the similarities between themselves and those in the hate group being discussed and know that it is human nature to group the two together. They know that no matter how they behave or treat others, some person, some where, is going to look at the whole group as "white people." As a result, those folks who are not bigoted, wish to point out that every other group/race has its messed up outliers who give the whole group a bad name, too. I just go back to a lesson my mother taught me: "The fact that other people are doing it doesn't make it right." I don't want non-gun-owners to look at these websites and think that they represent the average gun-owner any more than the skinheads that own a pickup truck represent the average truck owner.

I don't really agree with that last paragraph, my point of view is from life experience of witnessing racism by other races not from some perceived "white guilt".

As for the country club racism I think that class-ism trumps racism at the good old boys clubs these days..

 

[aslinged]

You know, with consideration of how strictly this site is monitored and amended for harsh language--the reasonable intention being to keep it a family place---I think that stormfront and other similarly, obviously backwards and hateful sites should be barred wholesale from having links on this site.

Understandably, we've probably all stumbled on that site while googling gun stuff and I'd guess that most of us retreat and try not to return. So the original link to which this conversation is directed isn't really worthy of punishment or anything---not what I'm saying. What I AM saying is that it's my opinion that in the future, from here on out, such links should be deleted post haste and the poster should be informed of the rule. And it should be rule.

The fact of the matter is that whatever information is found on those links can also be found somewhere else and by linking to them, whether intentional or otherwise only serves to drag down the standing of this site while also associating, albeit in a small way, every member here. Those consequences are both avoidable and completely unacceptable. It's a simple thing, just like monitoring language.

 

[Trlsmn]

You know, with consideration of how strictly this site is monitored and amended for harsh language--the reasonable intention being to keep it a family place---I think that stormfront and other similarly, obviously backwards and hateful sites should be barred wholesale from having links on this site.

I personally wouldn't post a link to any kind of websites like that anymore than a link that had nudity in it as this is a family oriented website. This is a good subject to ask Joey about as I personally am inclined to go along we the general memberships wishes on this.

Understandably, we've probably all stumbled on that site while googling gun stuff and I'd guess that most of us retreat and try not to return. So the original link to which this conversation is directed isn't really worthy of punishment or anything---not what I'm saying. What I AM saying is that it's my opinion that in the future, from here on out, such links should be deleted post haste and the poster should be informed of the rule. And it should be rule.

Agreed, if there was a change it could be just censoring the word stormfront.

The fact of the matter is that whatever information is found on those links can also be found somewhere else and by linking to them, whether intentional or otherwise only serves to drag down the standing of this site while also associating, albeit in a small way, every member here. Those consequences are both avoidable and completely unacceptable. It's a simple thing, just like monitoring language.

Exactly! I really doubt there was ever an original thought or brain trust at stormfront that would be missed..