Bellevue, WA - Confrontation over mask policy: Customer pulls gun on Bellevue gas station employee

[RVTECH]

So the question is whether her display of the firearm was excessive in light of just having been battered.

She was hardly 'battered' and was perfectly ambulatory once outside the door - and could have left without further incident but her decision to 'display' her firearm changed the dynamics of the situation.

The clerk was out of line as well but he was mostly 'exonerated' as he was behind the door when she pulled.

I would hate to think that she represents a portion of all the new gun owners.

Well, considering there are idiots that not only 'pull' without justification, and start shooting through their own windshields over nothing but imagined threats I would say she most likely not only represents a portion of new gun owners but is obviously a 'card carrying' member.....

 

[BAJ475]

She was hardly 'battered' and was perfectly ambulatory once outside the door - and could have left without further incident but her decision to 'display' her firearm changed the dynamics of the situation.

The clerk was out of line as well but he was mostly 'exonerated' as he was behind the door when she pulled.

Well, considering there are idiots that not only 'pull' without justification, and start shooting through their own windshields over nothing but imagined threats I would say she most likely not only represents a portion of new gun owners but is no doubt a card carrying member.....

I must disagree with your statement that she was not battered. You are ignoring the legal definition of battery, which is any offensive touching without consent. Surely, his touching was offensive to her and was without her consent. When discussing the legal consequences of the partys' actions we need to apply the legal meaning to the terms we use.

 

[Astoria9mm]

If my underwear & pants don't stop my farts your mask isn't stopping a virus!

 

[Knobgoblin]

If my underwear & pants don't stop my farts your mask isn't stopping a virus!

Aaaah . The hotbox/crop duster defense .

So , if people want to really mask effectively they should wrap a couch blanket tightly around their head? Like a reverse Dutch oven.

 

[WillametteWill]

Thanks @BAJ475 for the kind words.

I'm appreciating the perspectives. Did either one of them handle the situation well? Absolutely not. The clerk was taking a huge risk by going hands on over something so minor. Princess is likely used to getting her way (admittedly, a presumption on my part) and could not believe someone would actually put hands on her (we see this often in police videos).

My takeaway is that the further we get from black and white, where we are on the lawful side of something as an armed defender... into the realm of fuzzy, shades of grey of legality, where depending on who is narrating a video dictates the "victim," the more problems we are likely to have. My examples were extreme on purpose to provide some food for thought (hopefully). I've arrested "informants" on calls who thought they so legally and morally right, but it wasn't even close. Good stuff here!

 

[Burpboxhero]

Well, I hope she can plead it down. It was a heat of the moment decision and one she can learn from.

 

[Knobgoblin]

Well, I hope she can plead it down. It was a heat of the moment decision and one she can learn from.

Gonna cost money (lawyers fees mostly) . Maybe loss of concealed rights for a while. She won't ever see an orange jumpsuit.
Had she kept her head, she'd be cashing checks , not writing them.

 

[BAJ475]

Thanks @BAJ475 for the kind words.

I'm appreciating the perspectives. Did either one of them handle the situation well? Absolutely not. The clerk was taking a huge risk by going hands on over something so minor. Princess is likely used to getting her way (admittedly, a presumption on my part) and could not believe someone would actually put hands on her (we see this often in police videos).

My takeaway is that the further we get from black and white, where we are on the lawful side of something as an armed defender... into the realm of fuzzy, shades of grey of legality, where depending on who is narrating a video dictates the "victim," the more problems we are likely to have. My examples were extreme on purpose to provide some food for thought (hopefully). I've arrested "informants" on calls who thought they so legally and morally right, but it wasn't even close. Good stuff here!

First, you are welcome. I fully agree that neither party acted in appropriate manner. My posts were intended to point out that in any case there are different ways to look at any particular set of facts, not that there is no merit to the views of others. I think that we agree that in a similar situation neither of us would have drawn our weapons. I also think that we probably agree that, as concealed carriers, we need to do our very best to avoid confrontations because of the likelihood that they will not turn out well. This makes me wonder what kind of training she had. In my opinion it was not adequate because she seemed way to willing to get into a confrontation with the clerk. This does not mean that we need to avoid debate, because I view debate as an opportunity to learn and gain understanding and to possibly help others to learn and gain understanding.

I should have guessed that you are or were a LEO. That training and experience generally gives you guys certain insights and understandings of the real world not possessed by the average person.

Get well soon.

 

[partsed]

Finally got bored enough to watch the footage.

How the f*** is she carrying what looks like a glock 19 sized handgun in Yoga pants???

Is that Banana Grundle or appendix?

Is Lululemon collaborating with Urban Carry holsters?

So many questions

 

[edzz]

I wonder, is it battery when a larger stronger individual uses your face to open a door?

 

[American123]

Big deal, nobody got shot… try angering a POS over a fast food order and getting shot to death, then complain.

(Sarcasm)

 

[Knobgoblin]

I'd drink her bath water.

 

[American123]

After watching the video (at least the edited version they showed in the story) I'd say the employee was heavy handed with the woman. I'd bet money that company policy is not to put hands on customers. I'd also bet the employee felt confident being heavy handed with her because she was a woman and smaller and had he faced a man of similar stature he would have been physical at all and would have instead called the police.

Seeing as how she was assaulted by the employee, seems showing the pistol wasn't out of place if she was concerned she may be assaulted again.

If a protected class was in the same situation this story would be 180 degrees different angle.

 

[BAJ475]

I wonder, is it battery when a larger stronger individual uses your face to open a door?

From a legal standpoint, battery is any offensive touching without consent or justification. Because of the use of an object, a door, it is probably aggravated battery. Of course, because of the potential for serious harm, it might be attempted murder, unless the person whose head gets slammed into the door was the original aggressor who threatened the slammer with lethal force, then it could be self defense.

 

[Nosferatu]

Diaper mandates will go away when we start bustin' caps in fools.

 

[Knobgoblin]

Diaper mandates will go away when we start bustin' caps in fools.

But they'll still be covid deaths

 

[American123]

But they'll still be covid deaths

A person can be morbidly obese, have 3 other comorbidities, have covid and be counted as a covid fatality. Funny because what really killed them was the decades of terrible life choices, the final straw was just a small respiratory illness that took the last stretch of the relay.

 

[Nosferatu]

But they'll still be covid deaths

Damn straight. 10mm @ 1200fps of covid comin' at'cha

 

[P7M13]

Edit: thanks Ring doorbell. Now I can't dance with my cat in perfectly normal, manly, and comfortable Hello Kitty briefs.

Don't be so uptight. You're humoring the watchers. It's better than prime time TV.

 

[po18guy]

The ill effects of media-driven Covid hysteria. The media should be arrested.

Denmark has just called an end to the pandemic. With the milder Omicron variants (BA.1, BA.2) now exclusively seen, the Danish health minister followed the science and suggested a return to normal, allowing the virus to run its course. The government and the people agreed, so Denmark now has no panic and no pandemic.

For once, something is fresh in Denmark.